You're talking about:

A converted CB who has a history of injury problems (he was hurt all the time at UGA)

A TE who can't even get cleared to get on the practice field and who had a very high-risk surgery that a big portion of guys never come back from (this isn't an ACL or Tommy John).

A G who is 2/2 in reporting to training camp overweight so far in his NFL career, who was not that big of a standout in college, was cut by an NFL team with severe line problems (Rams) and has yet to play a snap for the Chiefs.

Only a homer would look at those three with with assurance they'd be upgrades over Lewis, McGrath and Asamoah/Schwartz.

In what way can they be downgrades? We're talking about the worst safety in the league, a below average at best TE, and a career backup/the guy he replaced.

It won't be tough at all to replace their production.
Posted via Mobile Device

Anything is an upgrade over Lewis. The rest I agree with.

You can't be an upgrade if you can't get on the field, and 2/3 haven't shown they can get on and stay on the field.

You can blow things up to rebuild, or you can get new parts and replace old parts a little at a time to rebuild.

They are rebuilding a couple of parts at a time.

But make no mistake, this is a rebuild.

He had a 2 million training camp bonus. It was 7.5

This is probably a strictly semantics thing for me.

If I'm rebuilding, I'm blowing up the whole roster, and using the draft as a resource to build the entire roster.

If I'm re-tooling, I'm going about it the Dorsey way.

Turning over 82% of the roster isn't blowing it up?

We think this, but it isn't necessarily true. It's possible that neither Abdullah nor Commings is any better than Lewis.

We can HOPE Abdullah didn't play early because of his year off from football and that he comes back and plays at a higher level. But there's still a degree of hope there.

We can HOPE that Commings will convert well to S, stay healthy, and make a positive impact in Year 1, but he's a complete unknown who could be just as bad as Lewis.

That was what this post looked like 2 years ago.

LMAO

Lewis' shoulder was a problem the last couple years.

Kelce was on the field yesterday going 100% and is said to be ready for camp.

Haven't heard about Watkins being overweight?

Your "career backup" argument when referring to Schwartz is anything but solid, yet you continue to use it. True, at one time he WAS that until he played himself into a solid starter. Rich Gannon was a "career backup" at one point too... There's a point there, but you're so intent on proving yours all the time, you miss many other valid ones.

Regarding your question, I'll answer it with one - How can you count on injured guys to be upgrades??? Especially guys who haven't even proven they belong in the NFL and one of which who had microfracture surgery...You cant.

The Chiefs have lost the most talent in the NFL and replaced it with the least amount of proven talent. In doing so they have created holes where they didnt exist last year. They have far too many questions for them all to work out.

Don't know what will happen this year, but Watkins reported to TC overweight in 2012 and 2013. In one of those years, he was cut by a team with HUGE problems on the OL (Rams).

Has Kelce been cleared for full contact? I didn't see that he actually practiced yesterday. Good sign either way. Micro fracture just has such a high potential for severe loss of ability, it's hard to count on much from him until we see it isn't an issue.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/...ers-still-free

Every June, a few players are released who appear as good as any free agents from earlier in the off season. The Patriots' grabbing jettisoned Chargers safety Rodney Harrison comes to mind. He led an all-rookie secondary to a Super Bowl victory over the Eagles. Last week, the Chiefs cut cornerback Brandon Flowers. In a league starved for cover corners, it seemed he would be gobbled up in a few minutes but he's still free. Ten teams were rumored to be interested, but only a few were identified.
Interest and commitment so signing him are two different things. There is a progression to resolving his situation, and it isn't as smooth a road as one would assume.
Step 1 -- Does he make a team better? While there are indications he may not be a top-flight corner, teams looking for a starter with the cap space have Flowers on their radar. I found seven teams fitting those qualifications (in alphabetical order): 49ers, Jaguars, Jets, Panthers, Raiders, Steelers and Titans. Note, the Falcons, where former Chiefs GM Scott Pioli is now an assistant GM, is not on the list.
Step 2 -- Review his 2013 season: Why did the Chiefs release him? One teammate said Flowers was the club's best tackler, but his current salary (his cap hit was a reported $10.5M for 2014) is out of line for any team to match this upcoming season, so Flowers must come to grips with possibly getting half of what he was making in Kansas City amid concerns about where he fits.
One opposing coach who schemed against him twice said, "[Flowers] appeared out of gas, DeSean Jackson exposed his lack of ability to run with speed receivers, and he probably belongs as a slot nickel and not an outside player."
Other evaluators expressed concerns about Flowers' maturity level. A sampling:
One coach: "He wants to be the leader of the secondary, but he belongs in the nickel position and he's more of a zone cover two guy than a man-to-man guy, and that will be a problem with his ego."
Another position coach: "He tends to blame the coaches when things go bad."
A scout: "Flowers wasn't particularly good to Romeo Crenel or Emmitt Thomas."
Those comments raise doubts about coachability which need to be resolved in a daylong interview.
A former teammate said, "There was a time when Flowers was the man. Now he's kind of out a gas." But another coach said, "I wish we signed him, because he is an upgrade."
There is some debate about how many big plays he gave up last season, but the range is between 9 and 13.
Step 3 -- Determine what he is: Rather than a starter, signs point to Flowers as a nickel corner who probably belongs in underneath zone coverage and not isolated on speed receivers who prefer vertical routes.
Step 4 -- Does he fit in the locker room? One former teammate described Flowers as a bit of a loner. It doesn't appear he would come to a new team and try and dominate the locker room. He was one of only two players who didn't show up for the spring off-season program in Kansas City and he has lost a lot of money by being released. He appears to be more of a one-year rental who is young enough (28) to reinvent his career with a solid season.
Step 5 -- Bring him in for a workout and interview: If he declines, walk away or make a low-ball offer and hold your ground. Despite his perception among some observers, some teams will see him as an upgrade and the pool of free agents isn't very strong at this point.

That stuff is kind of hard for me to believe. If he was such a dick with a huge ego we would have heard about it by now.

It's contradicting. It's just a bunch of chatter.

"He wants to be the leader of the secondary"

"He's a loner"

Desean Jackson exposed Flowers by gaining 62 yards?

This morning I read the interview with Cooper from yesterday and they asked him a few times about Flowers and Cooper didn't have anything nice to say about him.

It's interesting to read now that he may not have been the best lockerroom guy.

Gotta remember, that was still early in the season when the pass rush was very productive.

link?

So a guy who has been a backup for essentially 5.5 seasons isn't a career backup just because he had a half season of decent starts? Seriously?

And an oft injured Sanders commings> a fully healthy Kendrick lewis.

An injured Kelce + Demetrius Harris is as good if not better than McGrath.

Sorry I'm not going to cry over shitty to average players being cut or going elsewhere.
Posted via Mobile Device

Flowers likely wouldn't have like cooper. He lost his outside roll to a no name shit like guy.

Or they just simply didn't get along.

Not everyone on a 53 man roster is going to like each other. Personalities clash, but that doesn't mean a player was a poor locker room guy.

Ironic how Cooper is seen now, where if we would've have taken a poll after week 9 he would have been DROY and Dorsey a genius.

Give the guy some time to develop and get coached. Everyone won't be a 1st rder.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article...3-c255f1e64199
(highlights)
i still think cooper can be very good.

Nah.

Coopers either a zero or a hero. I see him as a kid with the skillset to be good. He's young and under experienced. I hope to see some progress with him this season.

thanks

Yep ! See Seattle.

The positive that I saw when he began to get "schooled" was that he stayed aggressive and never backed down. He never cowered and gave up. That will help him progress faster than anything.

The funny part about the Cooper interview was that he admitted that he doesn't really know how to play cornerback and hes still learning.... yet we ran him out there on sunday

We had a choice? Would you rather see Dunta Robinson out there?

Say's a ton about how they see him and that he has a very high ceiling not to mention he is not intimidated.:thumb:

Oh god I forgot about Dunta Robinson. ****ing joke.

So Flowers hasn't signed with another team yet?

I'd be interested in hearing that guy tell us how many WRs he thinks play faster than DeSean Jackson.

Doesn't matter, he will.

My only complaint about the Flowers release (other than not getting anything in return for him) is that we are finding players to match scheme. I always admire teams that change their scheme to fit players. I think it is a much more efficient use of resources, and you don't end up letting talent walk away, because they don't fit what your system.

he didn't really say anything bad either though...

Coopers best quality is his aggressiveness he still targets the ball like a wideout. He defiantly has a ceiling is like to see him as a wideout to confuse and. His size and speed are solid.

anyone have their decoder ring handy?

That shit is worth neg repping.

Holy ****. I don't even know where to begin on that one.

**** me. Meant he's definately got a good ceiling. I'd still like to see him used as a wideout to confuse a D. But the humidity on my touch screen and fat fingers produced this.
It changed I'd to is
And a D to and.

Coopers best quality is his aggressiveness he still targets the ball like a wideout. He defiantly has a ceiling is like to see him as a wideout to confuse and. His size and speed are solid.

Definitely, defiantly, definately.

Would have to go back and look at the film to see what this statement means. Either it is BS, or there were a lot of plays left on the field where Jackson may have beaten him but Vick just Casseled it and missed/ignored him...

If you are actually building a team and roster for the long run and in the imagine you want, you draft and sign players that fit your scheme not change your scheme to fit players.

Yes you have to do that some out the gate but as you build and the years go by you should be building towards your preferred scheme and drafting and signing for that scheme. IMO this is one big reason continuity in coaching is huge for long term consistency and success.

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Chargers are hosting free agent CB Brandon Flowers for a visit on Wednesday.

The Chargers know Flowers well after he spent the first six seasons of his career in the AFC West with the Chiefs. Flowers was released last Friday. The Bolts have one of the shallowest cornerback depth charts in the league. Shareece Wright is the No. 1 by default. GM Tom Telesco used the 25th pick of last month's draft on CB Jason Verrett. Veteran Richard Marshall is also in the mix. Flowers could immediately step in and be DC John Pagano's top corner.

Houston had 4.5 sacks that game which tied the league high for single game sacks IIRC.

Damn. Started drinking before noon. That's dedication.

CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports the Steelers are also "monitoring" free agent CB Brandon Flowers "closely."
Flowers is a hot commodity. He'll spend the next two days in San Diego visiting the Chargers, but is also on the Patriots', Ravens', Falcons', and Vikings' radars. In Pittsburgh, Cortez Allen is the top corner with Ike Taylor currently penciled in on the opposite side. Taylor showed his age and was torched last season. Flowers would be a significant upgrade.


The Baltimore Sun reports the Patriots are also interested in free agent CB Brandon Flowers.
They join the Chargers, Ravens, Falcons, and Vikings as teams with known interest in the 28-year-old. The Patriots have one of the deepest cornerback groupings on paper, but Brandon Browner will be suspended to start the year, Alfonzo Dennard is coming off shoulder surgery and is an off-field distraction at times, and Darrelle Revis is two years removed from a torn ACL. Flowers would be a luxury addition and is likely commanding significant money.

Caught me before I fixed it props

This post right here is the first time I've read anything you've posted that hasn't left me wondering what country you are from.

At least him and Todd can go to lil wayne concerts again.

With a little luck the next one may leave you questioning my sexuality, and how that affects you and your gender identity crisis.

You're confusing me with someone who gives a rat's ass.

But at least you recognize your own confusion.

Would enjoy watching Alex Smith and Bowe roast Flowers in San Diego
Posted via Mobile Device

I know you put on a tough front milk. But we all know your a softy on the inside.

I'd like to see him sign for a smaller amount somewhere like the Patriots.

That's a good point, having said that, I think we have more cb depth this year than last.

People will see that it wasn't just scheme as to why his play dropped off last year. I bet he's on the list of "biggest FA busts of 2014" next offseason.

The main reason why his play slipped was because he was playing with a bum knee all season. IF he's healthy, he can play and I would not be surprised if he was the '12 version of himself. I think the only way that he's a bad signing is if he gets hurt again. The deal with Flowers though is he gets banged up easily and thats what causes players to slip. If they continually get banged up, eventually they're not the same player.

Someone posted in another thread that the Arizona CB said Sherman was an overrated CB and I have to agree. Hes one of the most overrated players in the league... Its the system he plays in that allows him to flourish. Earl Thomas is the guy with the hard job on that defense

Though we are trying to play man press which is quite different, putting enormous pressure on some no name-cbs

That's part of it. He can't stay healthy. With the league being filled with bigger WRs more than ever even in zone scheme he's delegated to nickel now. I have nightmares of Decker.

I am not surprised.

Brandon Flowers done
 

He didn't say Sherman was overrated; he said Sherman wasn't a "true lockdown corner" because he doesn't always play man on the #1 WR like Peterson himself or other guys like Darrelle Revis do. The Seahawks usually run cover 3 so Sherman just covers space.

.. And he's overrated? Come on now. Watch a game. Check the stats.

Sherman is a system player in a system tailor made for him, and he would likely struggle in a man heavy system because he's not that fast. He's physical, big, incredibly smart, and has great ball skills.

I'm not sure that makes him over-rated at all. Just perfectly fit for the defense he plays in. I've seen a lot of guys who are big and can play man to man while they suck in zone defenses like Seattle likes to use. We have one in KC. He drove into a light post.

Flowers?

I doubt it. I'm shocked he isn't a Falcon yet...

I think we're going to sign him. Just cut a safety, think it's to make room.

You guys should cut Weddle.

That guys a pile of blown chunks.

Hah.

Weddle is still pretty good. I'd appreciate it if they'd cut him.

LOL, wut?

Weddle is very good.

What games are you watching?

You apparently forgot Rule #1 of ChiefsPlanet:

Don't play for the Chiefs? You suck.

This is how I picture half of CP on draft day.

I'm about 95% sure that he's a chatbox software program of a 13 year old russian boy.

Chargers cut safety Brandon Taylor. We should try and bring him in.

Now there's a rumor that Flowers bought a car in SD today. Seems like he's getting comfortable.

The one were he sucked and will come to kc on the vet min.

Nothing says putting down roots like buying something completely capable of going anywhere in the continental U.S.. :thumb: