Specifically as a pass blocker. They were very similar.

Who is that player you wanted at LT?

It's kinda funny if they get in pass spots and we throw BJ Thompson out there, that is the exact player that makes OBJ look awful.

Yeah, especially when paired with a strong interior rush that is going to create push and collapse the pocket. You send a speed rusher wide so Brown is chasing them around the arc and then let the power rushers crush the pocket.

PFF grades are literally worthless. Arbitrary numbers regurgitated on a weekly basis. Go check out Trent Williams grades for a great example of this. Gives up 2 bad sacks back to back that completely ended any shot the 49ers had of getting back in the game, regardless of how slim they were at that point, and it's still the same score on a week to week basis.

Oh, I place no stock in them. Just thought it was funny they're all like "Look how bad Smith was! So many pressures! Bad grades!" while ignoring the same for Brown.

77 for Brown, 70 for Smith. Not really sure what that means to be honest but looking at other "scores" it looks a fairly reasonable difference. On the other hand Smith had a year with a higher score than OBJ has ever got.

I would love it if this happened. They think they've stolen OBJ from us on the cheap and then oops, our 5th rounder is his kryptonite.

https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2023...ec2200016d64f4

“Extremely gifted, one of the most athletic, physically gifted left tackles that I’ve seen in going on 13 years now,” Gabbert said of Smith. “And, I told Patrick (Mahomes) when we all got here, I was like, he’s going to help this team a lot. He’s going to help solidify that front, with JT (Jawaan Taylor) and Donny (Donovan Smith) on the edges and our interior guys that’s got to be the best, if not the best offensive line in the NFL.”

Well said, Blaine. LMAO

Is this piece of shit an all pro yet?

I will note that Browns worst ass kickings came across his face due to the THREAT of the player in question running the arc.

I think someone like BJ Thompson can have some success against him, yes. But OBJ is a smart player - you can't play LT with feet like his if you're an idiot. If he knows you're going upfield on him, he can handle that. But what happened was he we look to cheat and then get smoked across his face to the inside because he doesn't have the agility to recover when he'd make that aggressive slide/set.

Can Thompson punish him like that? Probably not at the moment, no. Uzi, OTOH, who has some experience with interior rushing and seems to have a slightly better 1st step than Karlaftis, might be able to pull off something like that. He can get OBJ rocking a little then use that rip move to get across him and into Burrow's lap.

Thompsons best attribute might actually be as something of a decoy. You put him alongside Jones, for instance, and get him to draw OBJ off the line quickly before he can give the G any help, then you've created a really nice matchup on the interior. Omenihu might be another guy you could use there.

Karlaftis - Jones - Omenihu - Thompson might be the sort of alignment that gives the Bengals fits in small doses. I just don't see how they can block up that interior, especially if you're using Thompson on the weak side to simply pull the LT out into space as he runs the arc.

So why do so many people seize on 'pressures' as a viable statistic? Pressures are graded in almost an identical manner to anything PFF does. Moreover, many sources that are providing those pressure stats are providing the stat COMPILED by PFF.

We need to stop pretending like 'pressures' means anything. The concept does - legitimate pressure can impact plays obviously. But the statistic doesn't - it's simply not a reliable measure of any sort.

PFF grades are very reliable when they back up whatever point I’m trying to make. Otherwise, they suck.

Amen. This is something that is over looked to often. If more people understood how this works it would be much more peacful around here.

Typo or direct quote I wonder? I'm guessing the former. Funny either way.

When PFF comes up with these ridiculous QB grades, you have to atom bomb the whole thing. Yes, the WHOLE THING.

"Oh but it's useful for charting certain positions that don't have tallied stats like offensive line, because otherwise how do you track quality among..."

THE WHOLE THING. BLOW IT ALL UP.

Patrick Mahomes is the truth. End of ****ing story. It's been 5 years and even in his worst stretch (the 6 or 7 games in 2021) his season INTs were just high compared to what he normally throws, and not at all high compared to the rest of the league. This notion of "interceptable throws" that they pulled out their asses is hilarious because they think that stat matters to a super human like Patrick Mahomes.

Stats show trends, not truths. They don't account for immortals like Mahomes. They can explain Derek Carr and Kyler Murray and Matt Ryan and even Aaron Rodgers, but they don't explain Mahomes. And if you're arrogant enough to **** that mathematical model like a goddamn chicken over and over again even though it hasn't produced any eggs in 5 ****ing seasons, it's a huuuuuge sign of not just a flaw but a glaring problem that tanks your entire credibility.

If Mahomes is rated as a mid-tier QB after throwing 300 yards, 3 TDs, no picks, and upper 60s completion percentage, then **** you, **** your **** children, **** your **** dog, and **** Ireland or whatever shithole you live in across the pond. You're full of crap and should kill yourself.

Sooo...you're saying PFF is alright?

A pressure is literally just a hurry, a QBHit, or a sack all compiled into one number. All of those are pressures. All of those have been reliable metrics for a while, and if we want to argue about hurries, fine, but the difference between numbers over a season would be pretty negligible, gain some here, lose some there (A hurry is “a situation when the QB is forced to throw the ball earlier than intended or is chased around/out of the pocket as the result of defensive pressure”). So, if someone allowed a pressure it's because they got beat and allowed someone to get a hurry, a QBHit, or a sack. The statistic is much more reliable than any of those numbers by themselves. Hence, if you lost at the line and allowed any of these things to happen to your quarterback it would apply.

PFFs player grading metrics are horrible, and don't agree with the statistics 75% of the time, but pressures means something. They mean a lot more than any of those statistics individually.

A hurry is COMPLETELY subjective based on the very definition you provided.

I'm aware of what a pressure is and it's the 'hurry' element that creates the bullshit. Again I'll reference when PFF gave OBJ a pressure on a screen pass. No, that's not 'getting beat' - it's a grader being an asshole.

The statistic is not even a little bit reliable because it, like the player grading metric you proceed to lambast, is based on a completely subjective determination of what was 'supposed' to happen. There are times a OL is supposed to come off his man to help with someone else and then when his original guy is let loose, the play is timed to actually ensure that, despite the fact he's closing on the QB as the ball is being delivered, he's not actually creating any problems. And Reid is the absolute master of this sort of thing - he's made an art form of it (the Jah Reid game was the best example you'll ever see - 'pressures' that didn't mean shit).

But because he was almost there when the throw was being made and the grader doesn't have any idea what the timing/progressions or assignments on the play where, it's a pressure when everything went to script.

Pressures are a worthless, awful statistic. They're as prone to error as the player grades and for the exact same reasons.

You literally are arguing something I literally said in my post if we want to argue about hurries, fine, but the difference between numbers over a season would be pretty negligible, gain some here, lose some there due to the eye test being a little different for every individual person

Hurries have been a stat that NFL Next Gen, Pro Football Reference (That's actually who's definition I took), and several others have all used for a hot minute, to act as if it has no legitimacy is, in my opinion somewhat short sighted.

Am I saying it's infallible? Hell no, everything is open to interpretation, even things that some people think that aren't like sacks (Was it the lineman, or was it the QB, because yes, some QBs take on more sacks due to lack of awareness or inability to extend plays obviously), but to throw out the baby with the bathwater is completely illogical.

If Hurries are entirely bullshit, then let's take it out of the equation.

OBJ 2022 - 7 QB Hits, 4 Sacks
DS 2022 (Injured) - 7 QB Hits, 6 Sacks
OBJ 2021 - 12 QB Hits, 4 Sacks
DS 2021 - 4 QB Hits, 1 Sack

These being with Andy being the superior schemer and Mahomes being legendary at avoiding pressure and extending plays.

Everyone raves about how Mahomes extends plays at a LEGENDARY level, but noone thinks about WHY he has to extend so many damn plays. It might be because he's being hurried so damn much because our tackles (other than Schwartz) haven't really been these amazing bookends on the line.

Hurries tallied is just a number that's greatly lacking in context and subject to be skewed by whatever underpaidnd dipshit is viewing a compressed rip of a game.

Other considerations when comparing OBJ and Smith is who they were blocking for last year vs next year. OBJ got let off the hook many times because Mahomes is magical at getting out of the pocket. Smith was blocking for a statue of Tom Brady. This year, Smith will reap the rewards of Mahomes escapabilty, while OBJ has to try and protect the guy who's led the league in sacks.

Look out haters, Donovan Smith is ready:


https://i.postimg.cc/8CgK6JHL/85c095...8bea864cee.jpg

In the pursuit of honest analysis, I can't say that Brady and that offense was more inducive to sacks per se, as there was A LOT of designed quick passes (like... a LOT more), but you are 100% correct that in any play more than a quick pass; if Brady got in trouble, he wasn't going to be avoiding the QB hit or the sack unlike Mahomes, who I would put against anyone in league history at extending plays.

In my opinion, too many people on CP have a hard on for average and slightly above average O linemen that wore a Chiefs uniform at one point. The drop off between OBJ and Smith is not substantial (and can and will be argued Smith is better as a pass blocker) for what we do as an offense.

Don't get me wrong, OBJ is a much more well rounded as a Tackle (a substantially better run blocker in my opinion) and I've said multiple times in this thread that Smith has penalty problems in comparison to OBJ, but too many people on here are acting like we got some JAG at left tackle when it clearly is not the case.

As long as he's healthy (my only real concern about him), we should be just fine.

I remember in the first game of the year watching Mahomes step up in the pocket and hitting Kelce down the field beautifully and beating triple coverage. I bet they awarded some Arizona d-lineman a pressure on that play that Mahomes hit one of his best passes of the season on.

Mahomes is 2 for 3 in Expected Super Bowl Wins which is only a 66% win rate.

Meanwhile Nick Foles is 100%, PFF's all time GOAT QB

Mahomes giveth, Mahomes taketh away, though.

The best QBs the game has ever seen at avoiding sacks were, IMO, Peyton Manning and Joe Montana. And for the Montana argument I can try to go find the year that he and Kreig split snaps and the OL gave up like 2.5 times as many sacks with DK under center vs. Montana.

And neither of those guys could move at all. But they operated razor precise offenses and knew when discretion was the better part of valor. They knew when to quit.

Now Mahomes simply never has a moment where he HAS to quit on a play because he's a superhero. But that also creates a lot of hits and sacks on him.

I don't think Smith will have an easier time of protecting for Mahomes. In fact, in most ways it'll be harder. But ultimately I think he'll just be healthier and that's gonna be a big deal. He's gonna be fine out there.

Or he'll be on the bench with Taylor/Morris starting.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">ranking the NFL&#39;s best offensive lines:<br><br>1. Eagles<br>2. Lions<br>3. Ravens<br>4. Chiefs<br>5. Browns<br>6. Packers<br>7. Broncos<br>8. Cowboys<br>9. Falcons<br>10. Vikings<br>11. Panthers<br>12. Chargers<br>13. Bengals<br>14. Steelers<br>15. Raiders<br>16. Bears<br>17. 49ers<br>18. Colts<br>19. Texans<br>20. Saints<br>21. Bills<br>22.…</p>&mdash; Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1679501997236539392?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 13, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Take this list with a grain of salt until you know what the field turf is like

Ive said this before and I'll say it again, this OLine (if healthy) is the best OLine we've had in the Mahomes era.

Dungver at 7? LMAOROFL. Yeah right!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here are both of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a>’ new LT Donovan Smith’s 1-on-1 reps v. Charles Omenihu<br><br>Beats CO off the snap by a full second on the 1st clip<br><br>Mirrors up the arc, then engages w/strong hands yo prevent penetration on the 2nd rush attempt. Veteran savvy showing up on these reps <a href="https://t.co/NEusXJbIl1">pic.twitter.com/NEusXJbIl1</a></p>&mdash; Ron Kopp Jr. (@Ron_Kopp) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ron_Kopp/status/1685320801174564866?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 29, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's going to be glorious watching Mahomes make Smith look better than OBJ.

This offense is good everywhere and deep as ****

Most people don't seem to understand that the biggest factor in QB sacks is who the QB is. Mahomes just doesn't take many DESPITE the Chiefs throwing as often as he does.

Am I more impressed by Smith or surprised by Omenihu. Not heard much from the latter so far. Obviously means little but I kinda anticipated more buzz

I think that Smith is going to do just fine this year. He was injured last year and played though it. His play was always fine before and he's what? 30 years old I think? That's not old enough to be declining just yet. He should be a perfect stop gap until Morris is ready to take over

There's only been 2 days of pads lol.

And I've seen some.

I know I know, not much you can say about the DL. There were some positive-ish noises from Spags and I guess that's all you can realistically expect.

And that’s gotta be coming!

And that's gotta ME coming.

Best is the wrong word. There is no universally best and worst since these are pro athletes with strengths and weaknesses. They all have unique skill sets so it should be more specific. “Best pass blocking oline yet” would be better. Tho I’m not sure because we had two BOOKENDS initially and that’s by far more important than good guards / c and decent tackles

I don't think that's all that true necessarily -except for Mahomes. Maybe a few others.

I remember it sure made a huge difference for the Donks when they had Fivehead. It looked like they had a great line. But as soon as he retired, everyone saw just how awful they were.

That’s what she said..

I just wanted to point out that I created a heavily downvoted post after we signed Smith in this thread stating he would be a great addition and would be the unquestioned opening day LT.

After this season when we get him signed to another massive deal with some shit team while getting a 3rd round comp pick in the process, I’ll expect an apology from every single downvoter. You know who you are assholes!

If he happened to play at solid level I don’t see why we wouldn’t extend him, maybe something like 2 years/ $30 million. Unless they’re confident Morris can take over, which seems questionable, musical chairs at LT every year is getting old.

Because Mahomes is going to make him think he's worth way more than he is and Veach is going to say see you later?

:doh!:

Seems to be the pattern.

Yep, I pretty much agreed with you. I didn't understand the drama surrounding his signing. If healthy, he's pretty clearly a *significant* upgrade over Orlando Brown and who cares if you (for a year?) have to keep Taylor at RT?

There are a set few that think thry're right about everything, and collectively will not have any part of another opinion. Most of them were telling everybody that we would just have to get used to paying OBJ. Remember how many people wanted to pay him.??? Go back and read through that thread. I'll bet most who down voted you were saying we all better get used to the idea of paying OBJ. LMAO

Think I need to wait and see with Smith. My perspective was pretty much he's a downgrade on OBJ BUT he might, if we're lucky, be a better "fit", and that combined with Taylor at RT being an upgrade in pass-pro that results in a better OL overall. I still think it highly unlikely we run the ball better with these OTs, but obvs, it's a lesser concern. If Smith does end up having a season anything like the one the Bucs won the SB, then not only Veach but the whole coaching staff deserves a raise. Because that team's winning the SB.

I can’t see a deal like that happening. Did you see the deal the Giants just gave Andrew Thomas? Obviously Smith is not in that league but he came here to rebuild his value and get paid again. I can’t see him taking a team friendly deal like that to stick around. I could be wrong, and if it’s a perfect fit and both sides want to keep it going, that would be great. Just feels unlikely.

I do agree it’s getting old having to find a LT every year, so hopefully they see Morris as the guy for next year and beyond. Give him a year in the program and give him first crack at it next year.

Im looking forward to being wrong about this signing, I didn't like it but word so far is he is doing great.

If we upgraded both tackle spots, holy shit Mahomes is going to have a career year.

Between that and all the promise in the WR, RB and TE rooms I really do believe it's more likely than not that Mahomes breaks the yardage record again.

I don't think he'll need 50 touchdowns since the defense should be a lot better than '18

It was fair to be skeptical, he was coming off a horrendous season. Once you start peeling the layers as to what happened, it made a little more sense. He’s going to be an upgrade over Brown in the passing game, while probably a slight downgrade in the running game, and he’s only costing us $4 million against the cap.

It was really the perfect short term move for the position.

I'm hearing nice things!!!

Nailed it!!

It is looking like they hit the flush on the river with Smith.

And honestly, while he might be WORSE than Brown as an in-line, power run blocker... Smith is a credible athlete for LT, which might work better for the outside stuff the Chiefs like to do... outside zone, screen game, pulling the T... more mobility there can be really helpful.

Seems like the T's must be playing well, we haven't really heard much about Karlaftis or any of the DE's...

Karlaftis was literally mentioned along with Smith by AP as being one of the most impressive players the first couple days of pads.

I'm off the AP, hadn't heard much on twitter about it. Good news though.

I'd still like to add another DE/DL sometime soon

Me too. Especially one Chris Jones. ;)

Dude is solid. Came on strong the last half of the year. He's gonna pock up right where he left off.

Agreed. Hated this signing initially but it’s August and Staylor posted Smith winning a couple pass rushing reps the other day so my inner lil Chiefy is coming out. I’m ready to get hurt again!

In all seriousness, I hope the signing turns out well. He had a solid run with Tampa during their 2020 SB run so he can play well. If anyone can get the best out of him, it’s likely to be Reid and Mahomes.

What is it with you and the Adam Teicher style posts lately?

Been stressful around here, maybe I'm depressed. I dunno.

I liked the signing from the beginning I think.

He's a much better pass blocker than OBJ was. So that's all I really care about.

With better than average tackles to go with our solid middle of LG,C,RG, Pat will be in great shape to find our young recievers getting opened.

This season is going to be SO MUCH FUN!

I haven't been this excited since before the '18 season.

Hey bud it’s ok, life do be that way sometimes! But Chiefs football is almost back.

20-0

He was surprisingly good yesterday. If this is the guy we're getting, we'll have the best OL in the league.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here&#39;s Donovan Smith catching and throwing Carl Granderson to the ground in pass protection <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> <br><br>This was a good pocket, Mahomes prematurely scrambled <a href="https://t.co/IchT5rvC4d">pic.twitter.com/IchT5rvC4d</a></p>&mdash; Ron Kopp Jr. (@Ron_Kopp) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ron_Kopp/status/1690912608361078784?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 14, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Key in on Left Tackle Donovan Smith here. Backside of zone, he cuts off the B-gap defender well, latches on with power, and finishes through the play with a pancake <a href="https://t.co/6ELvcQWoLz">pic.twitter.com/6ELvcQWoLz</a></p>&mdash; Ron Kopp Jr. (@Ron_Kopp) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ron_Kopp/status/1690903509892206592?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 14, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wow, he just manhandled his guy both plays. Thought he wasn't even supposed to be a good run blocker? Dude looks healthy and motivated to earn another payday. We're going to get the absolute best he has to offer, which looks pretty damn good.

Sorry to hear that....but you KEEP RICHIE JAMES MOTHA****IN' NAME OUT YOUR MOTHA****IN' MOUTH!

Another great outing for him tonight. It's preseason so I only get so hyped from what I'm seeing, but wow if this is what our OL is this year it's the best in football

There’s a real chance that Mahomes will have the best OL and best compliment of skill players of his career this year

That’s really ****ing crazy to say