How can you blame Seitzer for Frenchy?

He's an idiot who wants to swing at everything.

Sacrificial lamb should be higher up like ****ing Yost

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/10/04...ach-kevin.html

Royals fire hitting coach Kevin Seitzer

The Royals fired hitting coach Kevin Seitzer on Thursday after four seasons with the club.

The Royals finished with a team batting average of .265 in 2012, down from .275 in 2011. Eric Hosmer also saw his production drop in his second big-league season, hitting .232 with 14 homers and 60 RBIs after batting .293 with 19 homers and 78 RBIs his rookie season.

Did his job so well that Hosmer looked like a bust this year.

Good riddance

hosmer looked good his 1st year with seitzer

esky improved a ton under him
gordon and butler got better too imo
Frenchy doesn't count
Moose has stuggled from day 1

whatever ... i would just figure they would have bigger issues



I will look forward to Moose and hosmer both being 30/30/.300 guys under a better coaching next year then.

The fact that the Star begins their evaluation of the team's hitting performance with batting average says all that needs to be said about their value in reporting Royals news.

Seitz was all class coming on with Petro after the press conference. Sounds like a shift in philosophies, Ned wants more power numbers which is ironic since he gives away a shit ton of outs.

Bunt the runner over, followed by two-run homer = WINNING.

If Seitz was responsible for all the bunting, good, he should be fired. But sounds like Nost needed a scapegoat.

I'm fine with Seitzer getting the axe. But hitting instructors get all the credit, and all the failure. 95% of everything a hitter does is on the player, not the hitting instructor. You can't make guys who can't hit into great hitters, you can't get guys that swing at everything to become Alex Gordon. It just doesn't happen. Unfortunately for him, the demise of Hosmer sealed his fate.

The Seitzer podcast is up. Some interesting takeaways:

Yost came to him a few months ago and said he wanted guys pulling the ball more. Seitz said it was the first time Yost had ever talked to him about hitting approach.

Dayton's son apparently complained to Seitz that he wasn't getting many opportunities to drive in runs because Billy is a base to base guy and can't score on a double.

http://810whb.com/page.php?page_id=140

Seitzer is probably relieved that he can now go work for a winning team somewhere.

It sounds like the guys who listened to Seitz and bought in improved and the guys who just wanted to do their own thing struggled.

Ironic stat, the last player to draw a 100 walks in a season for KC is Kevin Seitzer.

****ing Yost needs to get the **** out of Kansas City. Pull the ball more? How did that work for ****ing Frenchy, Hosmer, Moose, Gordon, Escobar and Dyson. The dudes that adapted and started going the other way i.e. Gordon, Escobar and at times Hosmer and Dyson did their best hitting when going with pitches. When all the dudes listed above tried to only pull the ball, they didn't do shit. Leadhead Ned needs to ****ing go

Interestingly, Frenchy batted 116 times with a man on first this year (don't know how many times it was Butler). He hit 5 doubles.

He hit 49 times with men on first and second. One double.

Eleven times with 1st and 3rd. Zero doubles. Ten times with the bases loaded. Zero doubles.

ONLY 9 OF HIS 26 DOUBLES CAME WITH MEN ON BASE.

Next year's promotion: The Frenchy .250

Proof positive that Frenchy is a selfish player, and his good "clubhouse presence" is as legitimate as Scott Pioli's reputation in '08.

Also, expect zero major FA signings. Pretty obvious this is the case when Glass noted the "dearth of FA pitching." Read: FAs cost money, and I don't like to spend this.

yep. You know it's coming. Hoch will be in the rotation again next year too.

These fools won't get another dime of my money until they actually make the playoffs.

Of course he will. Yost was praising Hoch's potential again today during the presser.

Idiots. The lot of them.

The angel of death presides over sports within this city.

The campaign against Pioli? It needs to be replicated against Glass yesterday.

The angel of death presides over sports within this city.

The campaign against Pioli? It needs to be replicated against Glass yesterday.

The angel of death presides over sports within this city.

The campaign against Pioli? It needs to be replicated against Glass yesterday.
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So who's accountable for the "Our Time" bullshit. Seitzer must have come up with that one. What a ****ing embarassment. So if Leadhead Ned wins 2 more games again next year does he get a lifetime contract? Shit his stupid ass managing probably cost the team close to 10 wins this year

Gordon, Butler, Esky will be fine without Seitz. Young guys need a better coach

Who was the hitting coach in Omaha? Bring in that guy

Seitzer had to go... turned 2 of the power hitters into what he was.. a slappy doubles type that didn't hit home runs.

Looking forward to another "WTF?" off-season

The angel of death presides over sports within this city.

The campaign against Pioli? It needs to be replicated against Glass yesterday.

The angel of death presides over sports within this city.

The campaign against Pioli? It needs to be replicated against Glass yesterday.

Glass is worse. He is the owner. He won't fire himself.

The Royals are never going to win anything of consequence under Glass ownership. Thinking otherwise is nonsense. Now, this doesn't mean that fans should pay no attention to the team, but following the Royals should be a passive hobby, not an earnest passion.

The scapegoating of hitting and pitching coaches is beyond laughable, though. As if Seitzer or anyone else is the problem. If a manager in baseball is the least influential coach in professional sports, imagine how even less important ancillary coaches are.

Truly an embarrassment from the franchise. Seitz is genious one year, so "stupid" he had to be fired the next.

Our Time.

I think if we say it enough times, he might go away.

Am I the only one that heard Glass saying that he would do whatever it took to get starting pitching and support Moore no matter what he wanted. He also said we would improve starting pitching at all costs. One of two ways or both. Meaning trade or free agency. I got pretty pumped up hearing it. First time I have heard him specifically say we had a certain issue and that we were addressing it this offseason.

The Royals need Kevin "Bell" Flanagan

My Man!:thumb:

Yes, because he truly didn't say this.

Oh, yeah, he gave the typical bullshit lines, "DM is going to have to make the decisions."; "We need to acquire starting pitching..."

But such statements happened after a bunch of qualifiers about being "small market" and the "dearth of available pitching," which mean that he's not truly going to commit the money to acquire a front-line guy in FA.

This is probably the last offseason they have before even the most optimistic Royals fans arrive at this conclusion.

Last chance to fix it, Glass.

Sign/trade for two significant guys in addition to bringing back Guthrie, and people might believe there's some commitment there.

minus the Odorizzi isnt ready but gets called up when Myers doesnt

This certainly will be it for me if they bring back Puke and don't really address the starting pitching.

Well, Indians hire Terry Francona. I fully expect them to make the playoffs again before the Royals do.

*uck this franchise.

Well, Indians hire Terry Francona. I fully expect them to make the playoffs again before the Royals do.

*uck this franchise.

We got Leadhead Ned. How does it get any better than that? If he only ****s up half as many games next year as he did this year, we'll finish less than 10 games under .500 next year. FORWARD--OUR TIME

We should have fired Ned. Hired Francona

Interesting piece from Dutton today re: offseason.

Click here for info on pitching pursuit

Sounds like the team is foolishly going to offer arbitration to Hochevar, Getz and Brayan Pena (at a combined price tag of around $7-8 million). Good call, guys.

Glass and Moore are going to have to SHOW ME the commitment to acquiring starters - real starters - before I believe they'll hit my long-held goal of division title competition in 2013. Glimmer of hope, but I'm not going to get caught expecting it!

Rany had a great update on Sat. Essentially, keeping Hoch will mean that Chen or Mendoza are bumped from the rotation, and both are far better options than Hoch.

Otherwise, we're looking at acquiring only one starter, which isn't enough.

Real focus of the article is Haren, and Rany is suggesting what many of us have: Angels pick up option, we trade a few nice pieces.

Why in the holy hell would we keep Hoch?

DM is dumb as ****?

This off-season is going to tell us a lot about DM's ability as a GM. When you don't have resources or you are going with a youth movement, ok whatever. When its time to step up and your owner basically says, publicly, that he's giving you an extra 20 million to go get 2 or 3 guys, you cant screw that up.

Hopefully he pulls it off, but if we discover irrefutably that DM is a moron whose only talent is perhaps in the draft, then we're doomed.

edit: As for Hoch, I'd just offer him a minor league contract and an invitation to spring training with the expectation that he'll probably be stored away in Omaha. If he doesn't want that, (I assume no one will trade for him) release him and wish him well.

FTR, I don't believe Glass is going to provide the necessary resources to sign two legit pitchers. 20 million wouldn't get this done anyway.

Far too many references to a "dearth of pitching" and "small market" not to read the signs at this point. That said, retaining Hoch, who is BRL, is gross incompetence on a Piolian level.

I think they almost have Hoch fixed.
No really, for real this time.
Posted via Mobile Device

DM thinks that hoarding "assets" is the right approach above all, so I have no doubt we'll bring back Hoch. Same concept on how he's managed the 40 man rosters. Ultimately, that will be used as the excuse for not bringing in more than 1 SP. "We have depth with Hoch, Chen, Mendoza, etc." will be the message.

I fully expect DM to be gone next offseason after another 74 win season. Mark it down.
Posted via Mobile Device

DM: hoarder.

No wonder the K smells.

DM: hoarder.

No wonder the K smells.

This is the make-or-break offseason for Dayton Moore.

If the moves he makes don't work, and the team doesn't miraculously win behind them, he's gone, I think.

I'll have to check out Rany's work.

Honestly, if Dayton Moore gets fired, a big part of it will be for stubborn loyalty to two such shitheads as Jeff Francoeur and Luke Hochevar, he deserves whatever he gets.

I've said it before... but mistakes by a GM are fine and to be expected. Moore's problem is that he doesn't cut ties with them soon enough. This season is a perfect opportunity to cut bait with Hochevar. Non-tender him. Bring him back cheap and send him to Omaha, or let someone else make him their problem.

With Francoeur, honestly, the feeling I got from the whole Seitzer firing is that Francoeur's struggles were a big part of the decision (along with Hosmer and Moustakas). Which is a disaster. Jeff Francoeur's struggles should have no bearing on any coach's evaluation.

I also loved Frenchy getting outed by Seitzer as a bad/whining teammate (about his RBI opportunities).

I know we say it a lot, but there are a ton of fans out there like me – if they don’t do something significant this offseason, I won’t be able to find a single glimmer that would let me be halfway optimistic next season or in the foreseeable future. In fact, the way Glass has treated this fan-base would leave me resenting any positive feelings I have towards the Royals. Once that happens, it would take a miracle to get me back as a fan. I’d probably become that guy who puts big black Xs on all of my Royals gear and converts all my (formerly positive) energy into hatred.

Maybe I’ll be a Cardinals fan – my dad lives there, and it would be nice to support a team that gives a shit about their fans for once.

From mlbtraderumors...

Offseason Outlook: Kansas City Royals

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [October 10 at 8:53am CST]

The Royals will pursue pitching in the hopes that a deeper starting staff will result in the club's first winning record in a decade.

Guaranteed Contracts
• Alex Gordon, LF: $31.5MM through 2015
• Billy Butler, DH: $18MM through 2014
• Alcides Escobar, SS: $9.5MM through 2015
• Jeff Francoeur, RF: $6.75MM through 2013
• Salvador Perez, C: $6.25MM through 2016
• Bruce Chen, SP: $4.5MM through 2013
• Noel Arguelles, LHP: $2.76MM through 2014

Arbitration Eligible Players (estimated salaries)
• Luke Hochevar, SP: $4.4MM (third time eligible, non-tender candidate)
• Felipe Paulino, SP: $2.7MM (third time eligible)
• Brayan Pena, C: $1.1MM (third time eligible, non-tender candidate)
• Chris Getz, IF: $1.2MM (second time eligible)
• Blake Wood, RP: $600K (first time eligible)

Contract Options
• Joakim Soria, RP: $8MM club option with a $750K buyout

Free Agents
• Jeremy Guthrie

The Royals haven't had an elite starter since they traded Zack Greinke to Milwaukee two winters ago. This offseason GM Dayton Moore will seek rotation help as Greinke hits free agency for the first time in his career. While the Royals aren't expected to be the high bidder for their former ace, they appear ready to spend on starting pitching.

Unless they obtain rotation help, it'll be hard for the Royals to win more games than they lose. Royals starters completed 890 innings this past season, the third-lowest total in MLB. The team's starters combined for an ERA of 5.01 (26th in MLB) while ranking toward the bottom of the league in strikeout rate (6.5 K/9, 25th in MLB), walk rate (3.2 BB/9, 24th in MLB) and ground ball rate (41.7%, 30th in MLB).

To be fair, Felipe Paulino and Danny Duffy missed most of the season with injuries and Jonathan Sanchez was far less effective than expected. But injuries limit just about every team, and general managers must create depth beyond the top five names on the pre-season depth chart. This winter the Royals could look to re-sign Jeremy Guthrie, who pitched well in his return to the American League, posting a 3.16 ERA in 14 starts. No one's going to mistake him for a top-of-the-rotation starter, yet there's value in players like Guthrie, as long as the financial commitment remains modest -- say a short-term deal for no more than $7MM annually.

Luke Hochevar pitched himself into possible non-tender territory, posting an ERA of 5.73. No organization likes to give up on a former first overall pick, so Hochevar could be tendered a contract this offseason. He'd earn $4MM-plus if he's offered arbitration.

Regardless of what happens with Guthrie and Hochevar, the Royals have Bruce Chen, Luis Mendoza, Paulino and Duffy in place for 2013. It'd be encouraging to see the team pursue a top-of-the-rotation option to supplement this group, and owner David Glass has indicated he's willing to spend to improve his team's rotation.

Greinke's name will no doubt surface, since the longtime Royals starter will be available in free agency. Other free agents, such as Kyle Lohse and Anibal Sanchez appear to intrigue Moore at a time that the rotation lacks anything resembling an ace. The free agent market will probably include familiar names such as Dan Haren and Jake Peavy and pitchers like Josh Johnson, Jason Vargas and Justin Masterson could be available in trades. David Price could be a tantalizing trade target, even though the Rays would inevitably ask for an elite young position player -- Wil Myers perhaps? -- in return for the 27-year-old who might be the top left-hander in baseball.

Conversely, the Royals' bullpen was a force in 2012. Not only did Kansas City's relievers pitch more innings than every team except the convention-defying Rockies, the group ranked sixth in ERA (3.17) and led MLB bullpens in wins above replacement (7.3 WAR, according to FanGraphs). This hard-throwing group (93.8 mph average fastball, third in MLB) is generally young and controllable, which means most of these arms will return. Still, every team should pursue relief help over the course of the offseason, since injuries inevitably occur and some players regress. Moore has also traded relievers such as Jonathan Broxton for prospects in the past, so surplus relief wouldn't necessarily be a problem.

Improbably, the Royals' bullpen pitched this well without a single inning from the team's most prominent reliever. Right-hander Joakim Soria missed the season after undergoing Tommy John surgery and his status with the team now looks uncertain. Soria's contract includes an $8MM option and while he has said he would like to stay in Kansas City, $8MM would be too much for a small market team with bullpen depth to spend on a recovering reliever. Perhaps the sides can agree to a one-year contract with incentives and a low-base salary.

Though the Royals out-scored just two American League teams in 2012, their offense doesn't need as many changes as the pitching staff. In fact, the team's lineup seems to have breakout potential. Injuries limited Lorenzo Cain and Salvador Perez this past year, and both could play a full season in 2013. More production can also be expected from 22-year-old first baseman Eric Hosmer, who struggled at the plate despite lofty pre-season expectations. Plus, Myers, Baseball America's 2012 Minor League Player of the Year, could break camp with the club as its everyday right fielder (Jeff Francoeur could then be released or become a bench option for Ned Yost to use against lefties).

The pieces are in place at every position except one. Royals second basemen combined for a .256/.289/.359 batting line last year. Five players played the position ten times or more and four of those infielders -- Irving Falu, Chris Getz, Johnny Giavotella and Tony Abreu -- remain on the Royals' 40-man roster. Despite the array of internal options, I believe it'd make sense for the Royals to consider pursuing second base help this winter. The free agent market looks thin at second, but Moore could pursue a trade for a player such as Skip Schumaker, who's now being used off of the bench in St. Louis. The versatile Schumaker continues to get on base (.339 OBP this year), though he's a platoon bat who should be shielded from left-handed pitching. Trading for Schumaker would create depth without blocking 2010 first rounder Christian Colon.

The Royals' class of arbitration eligible players looks relatively modest this year, even if the club retains Hochevar. Getz, Blake Wood, and Brayan Pena project to have affordable salaries in 2013, so they're expected to return in supporting roles (Wood missed the 2012 season to undergo Tommy John surgery). Should Moore continue to pursue extensions for his young players, Mike Moustakas could be next in line. The pre-arbitration eligible third baseman hit 20 homers in 2012, his first full season.

The Royals have enough above-average players in place to surprise people in 2013. But major improvements don't happen by accident. One recent example, the Nationals, didn't contend until they made meaningful upgrades to their rotation. It's hard to imagine that Kansas City's path to contention will be much different.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

See "For Want of a Pitcher: Here We Go Again" - http://www.ranyontheroyals.com/

1. ?
2. Dan Haren
3. Jeremy Gutherie
4. Luis Mendoza
5. Bruce Chen

I like reading info from MLB trade rumors. But to suggest that we will offer an incentive laden contract to Hochevar is beyond depressing.

Oh i have no doubt Hoch will be right back in the Royals starting rotation next year and the Royals will miss out on alot of the names being thrown around.

Same as it ever was.......

Hoch returning sucks ... However, if it has to happen then I hope he bumps Chen out of the rotation. A Mendoza, Chen, Hoch combination as 3/5th's the rotation won't get us past 75 wins ...

Chen sucks to, but hes slightly more consistent than Hoch so hes tolerable as a #5 starter.

that and he (Chen) has a guaranteed contract next year anyway.

Chen is definitely the lesser of two evils with Hochevar, at this point.

I have been saying all season that Yost has too slow a hook on Chen, and it kills his effectiveness. I decided to finally put my money where my mouth was and look at the stats on this.

What I found confirms what my eyes/memory were saying: Yost doesn't pull Chen quickly enough. Once Bruce gets to the 5th inning and beyond, he should be yanked at the first sign of trouble.

I found that in 13 games this season, Chen got into trouble in the final inning he pitched and was allowed to pitch through it. His ERA in his final inning this season was a shocking 15.25 (versus 3.59 for the rest of the game). Only twice this season did he run into trouble in the last inning and pitch through it with no damage.

To be fair, Chen had four appearances in which he was knocked out before the fifth inning. Subtracting those appearances, you still end up with 9 appearances in which Chen got drilled while being left in too long, with an ERA of 13.28 in those appearances.

The point? With a shorter leash, Chen is a much more consistent and reliable starter. Once he hits the fifth inning, he should be removed at the first sign of trouble.

Next season, if handled like that (which you can do if he's your No. 5 starter), I think you'll see a much more effective Bruce Chen.

Rany's jumping on my bandwagon.

Sign Anibal Sanchez
Trade for Dan Haren
Re-sign Guthrie
Mendoa
Chen

dump Luke Hochevar

Start Odorizzi at AAA and see if he's as effective in Round 2 there as he was in round 2 at AA.

Just about any pitcher does better if they only have to go through the lineup twice. It kills your bullpen, though.

Yea, I doubt you find too many 5th starters around the league with decent ERA’s or are workhorses who eat a lot of innings. Theres just not that much quality pitching depth to go around to fill all 30 teams.

We could all get behind that rotation. Then take a look at Duffy and Paulino in the second half for a big push while Odorizzi is waiting in the wings.

I'd actually prefer:
Sanchez
Haren
Guthrie
Mendoza
Odorizzi

Right. Comes down to Chen being fine/usable as long as you know what he is and handle him accordingly.

He had a similar number of starts (10) in which he breezed through his last inning with no problem, and five more in which he was yanked at the first sign of trouble (team escaped with no damage). He averaged just over 6 1/3 innings in those instances.

In the starts where he was left in "too long," 4 were starts where he ran into trouble in the 7th and, 8 were in the 6th, and one was in the 5th.

I'm not trying to say he's a stud or anything. Just that he's fine IF you monitor him carefully and hook him quickly once he runs into the first sign of trouble. About 1/3 of the time, he's good for 5 innings. About 1/2 the time, he was good for 6 innings.

Better management - and being able to slide him to the 4 or 5 spot, where he doesn't need to eat as many innings - would maximize Chen's effectiveness and minimize the times he hurts the team.

To me, it's similar to giving a lefthanded hitter who is hopeless against lefites a day off against them. You have the data that tells you the guy is likely to be a negative factor with the bat that day, and respond to it.

I think as the season went on, you'd see Odorizzi and one of Duffy/Paulino replace Mendoza and Chen. Mendoza would slide into a long-relief role.

I think Odorizzi still has a little ways to go and would benefit from some more time refining his approach. A little more time at Omaha wouldn't hurt him, especially if the Royals bring in two guys in addition to Guthrie.

That's a lot easier to do when you've got a legit number one pitching the next day. When your one through three starters pitch a total of 16 innings, you're screwed.

I like Paulino, but we can't count on him to ever be healthy. Any starts he gives us are bonus.

Exactly.

That's why guys like Sanchez and Haren would be so beneficial. They're durable guys who can eat innings. Same with Guthrie, the way he has pitched since joining KC, and the way he pitched in Baltimore.

The terrible twosome of Luke Hochevar and Jon Sanchez bombing out early in so many games tied Yost's hands to a certain degree this season.

It's a lot easier to finagle good starts out of your 4 and 5 guys if you can have a quick hook on them.

With the rights move in the rest of the rotation, Chen could bounce back with a very strong season next year. Which is why I'm OK with keeping him around and projecting him as part of the rotation.

We've talked about him a lot on here... Chen isn't the problem. He'd be fine/good if asked to do what he is capable of, but the team has been trying to get more out of him.

Agreed. Yost catches so much shit for the way he handles the bullpen, but I don't know what people expect him to do. Our starters give us fewer innings than just about any team in the league, our closer misses the entire season, and our bullpen still leads the league in ERA.

I get that people would like to pull pitchers at the first hint of adversity, but our bullpen can't absorb another 120 innings of work.

Royals now have the longest Postseason drought in all Pro Sports since the Nationals/Expos/1981 made the postseason this year.


:facepalm:

Royals now have the longest Postseason drought in all of Pro Sports since the Nationals/Expos/1981 made the postseason this year.

:facepalm:

Royals now have the longest Postseason drought in all of Pro Sports since the Nationals/Expos/1981 made the postseason this year.

:facepalm:

Every second, the postseason drought gets longer, but I don't think we need up-to-minute reminders.

Royals now have the longest Postseason drought in all of Pro Sports since the Nationals/Expos/1981 made the postseason this year.

:facepalm: