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-   -   Chiefs We saw the formula for this offense going forward against the Giants... (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=340574)

MahomesMagic 11-02-2021 04:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 (Post 15928249)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As we talked about on the Athletic Football Show last week with <a href="https://twitter.com/pff_seth?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@pff_seth</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_DLee?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PFF_DLee</a>, 2-high shells were up about 14 percent leaguewide through the first 7 weeks. It really does feel like we&#39;re moving toward this world.<br><br>Here&#39;s that whole story. <a href="https://t.co/ZTZw04jeMj">https://t.co/ZTZw04jeMj</a></p>&mdash; Robert Mays (@robertmays) <a href="https://twitter.com/robertmays/status/1455346578680598530?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
The answer is Andy has to move away from his hybrid spread offense and go back to his West Coast roots.

Tighter formations. Power running and quick passes designed to get players YAC.

BigCatDaddy 11-02-2021 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 15928010)
You’re wrong.

This offenses effective balance is a power run game with play action. All of the OL are road graders and we struggle blocking the edge. Probably in the neighborhood of 55-45 pass to run.

The WRs outside of Hill and Kelce are bad at getting open and making plays. None of them are weapons as traditional route running receivers. Hardman runs fast and is a weapon as an extension of the running game, but struggles making an impact in other areas.

Josh Gordon isn’t keeping anyone up at night to scheme against.

So have Hill and Kelce as the receiving threats more and run the ball out of double tight more. This OL is a far better run blocking unit than pass blocking one and Pat is great at PA. Force teams to stop our running game more.

Brown doesn’t get exposed as much and gets to wear down his man. Same goes for Niang. That forces teams to bring those safeties down more.

This team isn’t built for long developing pass plays anymore.
Kelce seems to have aged overnight. I feel like Hill is the only weapon out there right now and that's a big of a problem as any.

Chris Meck 11-02-2021 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 15928169)
It has it's place. 20 carries a game is good enough.

Any more and you are doing two things:

1. Vastly reducing the effectiveness of those runs, because the players executing them aren't good enough. You can only hand the ball up the middle so many times before the defense sees it coming and pounces on it. That is the easiest play in football to stop.

2. Taking the ball away from your best players. The ones making the most money. If Andy drew up a gameplan where Derrick and Darrel got 3x as many touches as Kelce, Hill and Hardman, he should be fired. Period.

This is extremely logical but some of you refuse to use your brains.

This is the equivalent of the 2003 Chiefs taking the ball out of Priest's hands to feed Kennison and Morton.

The Chiefs WILL get this figured out. They just have to keep chopping at it.

Throwing their hands up and going back to the stone age on offense is admitting defeat. That doesn't do this team any good now or in the future.

If cdcox and I agree on a subject, it should be inked in blood and stamped in gold. It is football gospel. Because we disagree on almost everything else in life.
Except that:
If a defense is going to sit in two deep all day, they CAN'T pounce on the run; that's the whole point. And if this OL has a strength, it's in run blocking. they're road graders. The whole point of the two deep is to take away the explosive, downfield passing attack-and it's working, that's why there are all these DC's running it.

The counter to this defense is boring, methodical offensive football. Run the ball, pass the ball short, dump-offs, screens, slants.

Not nearly as exciting as Tyreek on a 50 yard bomb; but the fact is that IF you can execute the boring, methodical balanced run and short passing game you kill the opponent on two levels. You score, and you hold the ball so long that they cannot.

Why Not? 11-02-2021 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 15928408)
Kelce seems to have aged overnight.
This seems to be something very few are wanting to discuss or believe. Kelce has been so great for so long and has taken a pounding for years. It seems to be starting to take a toll on him.

treeguy27 11-02-2021 06:39 AM
We saw the formula for opposing defenses. This team has a unique ability to sabotage itself on seemingly every drive. Defenses are going to double down on the deep safety looks and make us execute 10-12 play drives. We've continued to show that we are not capable of doing that without self destructing. We're turning the ball over on more than a quarter or our drives. Throw in the drops and insane amount of penalties and sustaining a drive is a monumental challenge for this team.

ku_jhawk23 11-02-2021 06:42 AM
I'm confused by alot of the comments here. The "cure" for our offense is West Coast run game, dink and dunk? So the exact offense the Chiefs ran for the 30 years prior to Mahomes and never once worked?

RedRaider56 11-02-2021 06:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 15928408)
Kelce seems to have aged overnight. I feel like Hill is the only weapon out there right now and that's a big of a problem as any.
Poor Kelce has been getting mugged & held coming off the line of scrimmage. None of the holding stuff seems to get called.

Gary Cooper 11-02-2021 07:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by treeguy27 (Post 15928507)
We saw the formula for opposing defenses. This team has a unique ability to sabotage itself on seemingly every drive. Defenses are going to double down on the deep safety looks and make us execute 10-12 play drives. We've continued to show that we are not capable of doing that without self destructing. We're turning the ball over on more than a quarter or our drives. Throw in the drops and insane amount of penalties and sustaining a drive is a monumental challenge for this team.
The Chiefs need to embrace how teams are defending them. Other teams wish they could play against a four man front or two deep safeties. Middle of the field is open. Running plays should create yards. Time of possession for the offense. Keep the defense off the field. If this offense can't enjoy it or take advantage of it, they can f*** off. Maybe guys need to catch the ball and immediately fall down if they can't avoid fumbling.

treeguy27 11-02-2021 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudasRising20 (Post 15928543)
The Chiefs need to embrace how teams are defending them. Other teams wish they could play against a four man front or two deep safeties. Middle of the field is open. Running plays should create yards. Time of possession for the offense. Keep the defense off the field. If this offense can't enjoy it or take advantage of it, they can f*** off. Maybe guys need to catch the ball and immediately fall down if they can't avoid fumbling.
I agree they should embrace it. The first drive last night was perfect, right up until the interception in the end zone. I loved the quick outs and short passes that were going for 8-12 yards per play. If the offense could consistently execute that type of game plan without self destructing defenses would begin to change their scheme. As it is there's a real good chance our offense will shoot itself in the foot, so defenses will double down on the deep safeties and continue to give us plenty of opportunities to screw up.

dirk digler 11-02-2021 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 (Post 15928249)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As we talked about on the Athletic Football Show last week with <a href="https://twitter.com/pff_seth?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@pff_seth</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_DLee?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PFF_DLee</a>, 2-high shells were up about 14 percent leaguewide through the first 7 weeks. It really does feel like we&#39;re moving toward this world.<br><br>Here&#39;s that whole story. <a href="https://t.co/ZTZw04jeMj">https://t.co/ZTZw04jeMj</a></p>&mdash; Robert Mays (@robertmays) <a href="https://twitter.com/robertmays/status/1455346578680598530?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Thanks for sharing. Seems like the Chiefs won't be the only team struggling with this.

rabblerouser 11-02-2021 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 15928099)
They ate tonight. 21 carries for 4 YPC.

That's the best you're getting out of these backs, dude.

You think giving them the ball MORE is going to result in a better YPC?

Typically that is not the way it works.
No. But 21 carries for 4 will do a LOT to help this team win.

Clean up the turnovers and we'll beat more than just NFC East scrubasses by committing to running the ball and utilizing the short/intermediate passing game.

Why Not? 11-02-2021 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRaider56 (Post 15928515)
Poor Kelce has been getting mugged & held coming off the line of scrimmage. None of the holding stuff seems to get called.
While true, this has been happening for years and it has never really seemed to affect him until now.

HC_Chief 11-02-2021 07:51 AM
The "formula" is simple: line up in basic vanilla formation and go straight at snap. Ignore the motion, the line blocking one direction or another, and all of the trickery; if you simply go straight at KC you can man-handle them. KC's offense is exotic and soft. Counter with basic old school football and you will not only contain them, but shut them down and/or get a turnover.

You can take a similar approach on offense. Line up & maul them. Run, run, run, playaction, then run some more. Freaking Martyball is Reid's Achilles heel.

Chris Meck 11-02-2021 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ku_jhawk23 (Post 15928512)
I'm confused by alot of the comments here. The "cure" for our offense is West Coast run game, dink and dunk? So the exact offense the Chiefs ran for the 30 years prior to Mahomes and never once worked?
the difference between the prior years was that we didn't have a QB who could make a defense pay if they committed to stopping the run game and dink and dunk. If defenses DO commit to stopping those things, then Mahomes will scorch them over the top.

Defenses are taking away what Mahomes wants to do. He and the team will have to adjust, or fail.

The adjustment is short and intermediate passing, get the ball out quick, and run the ball effectively.

I mean, if that's confusing, I'd love to hear your alternative.

ptlyon 11-02-2021 08:02 AM
Just do whatever it takes to win.

We're gonna get stooged Sunday afternoon.


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