I think after 4 games it's entirely fair to say that Frank Clark has been underwhelming as a chief so far.

We could have gotten this from Justin Houston and not lost draft picks. It's entirely fair to expect more.

That said, we have 12 more games and 7 are at home where KC"s D tends to play much better.

Sounds like your not watching the games. Clark gets doubled/chipped/combo'd a ton, and sometimes they double clark and jones.

This is a fair assessment. To be perfectly honest, I'm surprised that he hasn't been more present and effective considering his history. At this point the only counter to the acquisition of Clark would be "who could we have drafted at that slot defensively that would have made more of an impact"?

He's had 2 Tommy Jone injuries on both elbows.

I'm starting to wonder if that's truly ****ing with him, because my now we should see more physical dominance

I'm not shitting on it or going to sweat on it too much at this point.

I do want to see more from him though, and I fully EXPECT to see more.

He's on pace for what? 36 tackles and 4 sacks? Will anyone be happy with that? He's not making excuses for himself, and I think he expects to be better.

I saw that, too. It was on TV today...

This is how I see it. I was hoping for a game wrecker and he hasn't been that. Not even close. There have been some flashes, but he's too well paid for flashes to make me happy. Still, it's a long season and I am staying optimistic that he'll get on track.

LMAO

Seems so to me as well. I mean, he was sold to the fan base as a world wrecker, someone who was going to come in and make an immediate, noticeable difference in both pressure and in defending against the run. I would like to think that deficiencies in the LB corps has something to do with it but even then we SHOULD be getting more from him than we currently are.

We need a killer Linebacker and a shut down corner to round this thing out.

Yeah. I've seen a lot of football movies, and at the end a guy like this always makes a critical play in a big game to redeem himself. It'll happen.

Yeah. I agree.

With all this talk about Clark, nobody is appreciating what a big play Mathieu made with his perfectly timed blitz/sack.

He sure is an ungrade over Ron Parker.

I'd say Eric Berry but the last time he actually played more than a few quarters Mahomes wasn't even on the ****ing team.

Sweet Christ I would certainly hope so. It got to the point that I couldn't even stand seeing that name in print much less on the field.

I notice it's been very quiet on the Thornhill front. I believe I was told for weeks about how kick ass he was going to be, yet I notice that his thread on CP hasn't been getting any bump action since camp.

He's a defensive end. He plays based on what the tackle is doing, not to what defense they call.

I would like to see an in depth analysis of the plays where he was successful in Seattle, and compare his winning plays to what Spags is asking him to do now.

I have seen guys have a drop off when changing teams, or after getting paid, but what Frank Clark is experiencing isn't a drop off ,its more like a Weekend At Bernie's: NFL Edition.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

That's the ONLY play I remember Honey Badger making......that's a problem! He and Clark are making a ton of money and as of yet there has been very little return on those millions!!!!

Who's kidding who?

Not on obvious passing downs!!! He gets ZERO push on passing plays! Slow and weak!

That's what I seen. It looks like, on average, teams put a lot of effort into taking Clark out of the play. He's done a pretty good job this year. Problem is, a lot of people were expecting a Kahlil Mack level player when he's not at that level of a player.
If we overpaid for Clark it wasn't by much.

not by much? hes being paid as a top 5 defensive player in the entire league. they are on the hook for 27 million next year just for him. Hes not worth 27 million in any season on any planet, ever.

Pretty much my thoughts.

Khalil Mack went to a loaded defense that already had talent everywhere. Clark is on a team where the DT’s can’t stop the run, the LB’s and corners are suspect and a rookie Safety is taking his lumps.

Defense is a team effort. The whole unit has to play together.

Yes I know Mack still got sacks in Oakland, but there was a reason why. That guy got like 4 sacks in one game in Denver going against scrubs. I bet Clark will do the same against that shit OL i
Denver has.

I do ever so love those that hide behind the skirts of a byline.

Arrowhead Pride did exactly what you and others in this thread have done for the last 4 weeks - you've assigned a pre-determined cause to what you're looking at.

That article said one thing that y'all seized on and said it poorly at that. It didn't even define what 'running away from' Clark is. Does that mean a stretch zone that the RB takes a cutback on? It very easily could mean that and that has nothing to do with Frank Clark; that's simply seeing a cutback lane and taking it. And the Ravens did a TON of that in that game but they didn't do it because of Frank Clark, they did it because a cutback up the middle on a stretch read will always yield a nice gain if that cutback opens up.

Moreover, it still did nothing to speak to the causation/correlation problem. Clark spent the first part of the game primarily on the weak side of the formation and the QBs left. Meanwhile the Ravens run right because they HAVE to if they're going to sell the RPO action (can't do an RPO left with Lamar Jackson). So they 'ran away' from Clark by the natural design of their offense. Additionally, that's where the TE is (more blockers) and where Marshall Yanda is. There are 3 very obvious reasons why the Ravens would've run to the right side and 'away' from Clark, but none of them are 'because Frank Clark is a scary, scary man'.

He didn't address the fact that they were still running right when Clark moved to the left. He didn't establish his methodology. He did nothing to attempt to parse causation from correlation at all.

He picked a conclusion and stated that conclusion and then provided little in the way of supporting argument or evidence for it.

Meanwhile, we have the same tired excuse making about Clark in this thread about his double teams and chips. Most elite pass-rushers don't have a teammate as good as Chris Jones, lads. Most of them get MORE attention than Frank Clark is getting. God, to listen to you people tell it, nobody has ever gotten chipped but Frank Clark. I mean it's CHIP people - he doesn't have snipers shooting at his ****ing knees.

And as I've been saying all along - he's getting a TON of single-teamed reps and does nothing with them. Remember in the Jags game when I said "uh, guys - this cat's getting handled 1v1 by Tight Ends..." and y'all insisted that it was impossible because he's clearly a stud. Fellas - he's STILL getting handled 1v1 by tight ends. And tackles. And anyone else.

He's playing like ass. Let Arrowhide Pride do (bad) work for you all you want, but if you'd be willing to view his performance with any kind of critical eye, you'd realize he's playing extremely poorly.

In the Ravens 1st 2 weeks they ran right 61% of the time. No one wants to touch that comment though. Also he's not just getting doubled teamed, he's now getting triple teamed!!!! If the guys at AP wanted to be more convincing about Frank being double teamed they could easily prove it. Just put a gif of all the plays in which he was double teamed, but they don't do that. They pick out 1 play that he was double teamed on (Usually not even an actual double team, because it's a 3-4 man rush, so a couple of lineman don't have anyone else to block) and then we get a gif of 1 or 2 plays in which he did well. Hell, sometimes those "good" plays are him whiffing on a tackle or a sack. I want this mother****er to be elite, but he's not even close. He's pretty much Tyson Jackson.

Jones gets easily as much attention as Clark, a fair amount more to my eyes, and continues to make an impact game in, game out.

Stop making excuses for this guy. He's one of the 5 highest paid defenders in the league and while he is drawing more focus than Ogbah, that doesn't make him worth anywhere close to what he's getting. Great players ALWAYS get attention and they're still great players.

If you're drawing attention and that attention is neutralizing you - you're just not a top-tier player. It doesn't mean you don't have a place on an NFL team, but it means you ain't worth anything resembling $20 million/season and a 1st and 2nd round pick.

In what world did getting chipped excuse a guy for being completely neutralized? Do you think Mack is left on an island? Do you think Houston was? Miller? Elite players draw that kind of attention all the time and still make a difference. Clark draws it and "well hey, he got chipped - that's a win no matter what happened, right?"

Unreal.

I hadn't seen that stat but yeah, that's largely the impression I got as well. From my seat and in real time I was thinking about 2/3 of their run plays started right (and many became cut-backs) (so I was a little high, but not much). And it didn't matter where Clark was when they were doing that - when he moved to the strong side, they kept running right. And of course that's what they did - again, they're an RPO team with a RH quarterback and an all-world RG. Duuuuuuuuuh.

Like you said, if they really wanted to make that argument well, it wouldn't have been hard provided that the evidence was there to do it. They didn't try to because they almost certainly couldn't. I did 'watch the games' and I guarantee I watched those plays more closely than anyone on this board because I was going to make a point of giving the dude a fair shake when I finally got to see him in person.

And from the stands he was worse than he has been on television.

And yet when some blogger tosses a throwaway line out there that states his conclusion as his supporting argument, I'm supposed to just turtle up and run home?

FFS, just how often should a player be run AT!? "Well he didn't get run at 50% of the time so he's clearly an elite run defender...."

C'mon.

It's just the excuse-making for this guy that drives me nuts.

Nnadi is an exceptional run stopper.

As for Jones and Williams - O.City (I think) mentioned Williams poor run support and I started talking about Jones weeks before your precious bloggers did.

Some of us here absolutely know what we're looking at. And what I'm looking at is Frank Clark being incredibly average.

Right, but to fully understand his performance you need to understand the entire defense.

For instance, if a blown coverage leads to an open receiver in less than 2 seconds, you can’t hold that against Clark for not getting pressure.

My point is that when other people blow their responsibilities, it can make Clark look worse.

I’m not saying he’s playing well by any stretch. I’m purely stating that it isn’t as easy to evaluate any player as some are claiming, especially when most of us just the live game and maybe a replay of the game once. Most likely, no one here is doing any sort of in-depth film study.

Again, though, that's not what some are saying here. For what they're giving him and gave up for him, he needs to be wrecking game plans.

He's not doing that.

He might not be wreaking game plans, but he certainly is heavily game planned against.

I havent watched the replay this week, but I suspect it's much like the first 3. Doubles, chips and running away from him. People want to act like the only defense of his play is a bias one, but having watched him closely every week via replay, I simply dont understand anyone who thinks he's playing poorly.

I don't necessarily think he's playing poorly, but again, for what he's being compensated and what they gave up, you need more.

He's supposed to be the cornerstone. Great players get attention and still make plays.

Context is important. First 3 weeks he couldn't have done a whole lot more given the circumstances. Its over blown and I suspect he'll start getting stats soon and then everyone will be happy. I know bears fans who get frustrated with Mack disappearing. LMAO

If he shows up in the playoffs you’ll know why he’s worth it.

If he doesn’t I’ll be his biggest hater.

This is pretty much where I’m at.

Ford and Houston were schemed out of the Patriots game completely. We know they can’t help us agains the Pats.

If they do the same to Clark, I’ll be the first one to criticize the move. I’m just not ready to jump to conclusions about him after 4 games.

Can anyone go back and review if he used to have actual pass rush moves? Because now he just seems to bull rush every time or do that stupid spin thing. He doesn't seem to have any kind of outside swim move at all.

https://i.imgur.com/lEoHs95.jpg

The lions weren't running away from anyone. They were running anywhere they damn well pleased and getting away with it

#gameplanned

Did you miss the part where everyone but the ball carrier blocked him and the other guys on D were playing with their dicks. Frank was such a force to be reckoned with!

Cant wait until some homer for AP finds some asinine reason to act like he had a good game. Maybe show a picture of Frank getting chipped and call it a double team, then say this happened all game, but can't show any other times it happened.

glad you're a real fan and can support our guys

Lmao, ok Chief Fan. It is alright to criticize the players.

wrong.

Here's a good refresher article since Spag's love over and under fronts.

https://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2...4-3-over-front

I've been collecting A22 clips and eventually will throw a post together with some good and bad stuff.

This is the same shit people said when people had the audacity to say early on "hey guys - maybe this Matt Cassel fella kinda sucks..."

Nobody wants Frank Clark to fail. And very few people think he will continue to do so.

But pointing out that he's been a disappointment thus far isn't being hypercritical or unfair. It isn't being a 'bad fan'.

Little old ladies that yell at people in the stadium to sit down are the only people I generally meet that tell anyone who's being critical that they aren't good supporters of the team. You sound like a PTA mom.

BullshitI just re-watched yesterdays game, specifically trying to keep my focus on Clark.

He is playing like a guy that got paid and wants to be healthy enjoying life after football with all of that money.

HE IS NOT BEING DOUBLED

Clark has been very underwhelming so far but we still have 12-more games to go. That said I don't think Ford is any worse than Clark is if anything he might be better. So getting rid of Ford and signing Clark seemed like a stupid move to me and still does.

:clap:

Saying he ****ing sucks and bashing on everything he does is a little different

Had a bad feeling that he and Mathieu would be underwhelming. Not that they’re not worth having, but both were probably overvalued.

Gotta think that Ford would have been way more disruptive through 4 games than this. How many pressures does Ford have?

It's not like QB's have to hold onto the ball very long. Not to mention the run D that allows many third and mediums/shorts.

FC and TM got paid. Nuff said.

Why are folks pining for Ford? The dude just got put on the injury report, again.

Actually it isn't wrong. and except for run blitzes, and stunts (which are plain to see ) he is reading, and reacting to the tackle, and probably the RB.

This. Clark isn't playing the tackle. He's playing the QB and the RB. He's mostly reading/reacting. And he's pretty darn good at it.

Seems to me best case you could say for him is he got paid and doesn't care, but I don't think that's true. I'm not a coach and I don't watch all 22 but from what I've seen is he's just not great, or not currently playing great. He doesn't seem to get off blocks well, and his spin move usually ends up as a 180 and he just seems to be pushing his ass towards the tackle. He appears to be trying he just doesn't look particularly good or strong really.

He definitely plays the tackle. The tackle tells you everything you need to know. low hat, high hat, down block, drive block, reach block.

NFL QBs are too good to just read them lol... Watch an overlay of manning, theres almost zero difference in his drop step on a pass, or a run.

Of course Clark looks in the backfield, but he's playing the tackle too.

Right I should've been more precise. What I meant by "reading the QB" was that Frank's reading whether the QB is really handing off or not. Not where the QB is actually going to pass the ball. You can see his head moving from side to side checking the QB/RB merge, and see how he reacts based on which has the ball.

So what I should've said is that Clark isn't just playing the tackle.

Frank Clark is weaker than a clarinet solo.

Beginning to get seriously concerned about Brett Veach.

His acquisitions, both through trade/free agency and the draft have by and large been massively underwhelming. Starting to think he has a problem with evaluating talent.

Hated this trade when we made it, then decided maybe I was wrong after hearing all Frank Clark's words and hearing how good he was in training camp. Now I'm back to hating the trade. Seattle fleeced Veach.

Eddie Van Halen's father laughs at this post and cashes another royalty check for "Big Bad Bill". :p

Who were they gonna get at the end of that round and you coldnt roll with ogbah speaks okafor as your ends.

Clark hasnt lived up to his deal but still has made some plays. To say he sucks is unfair. To say he hasnt played to his contract is totally fair.

No he's not.

Keep Houston and draft a CB.

no he is playing his assigned gap and rush lane, just like the rest of the front 7/8. Problem with the run D has been the guys at the point of attack getting combo'ed then when the lineman peels to the lb, they cant disengage and have been driven back too far. Our LB's aren't getting off the block either. Run blitz, slant, stunt.. doesnt matter they all have 1 gap assigned whether its an under or over front. Another issue ive seen is a shift by the TE the line is not adjusting and the weak end is getting sealed. either a safety needs to come down when that happens and take the alley or they need to shift and reduce the end back down and have a LB on the line.

Benny Goodman says go **** yourself!!!!!!!!

Nobody was going to keep Houston at that contract and he has as many sacks as Clark.

Sign Preston Smith and draft Byron Murphy.

And yes, I was high on Smith as a FA. Would've damn sure preferred him to giving picks AND the contract for Clark.

He's the highest paid player in franchise history. And we gave up a 1st and a 2nd for him. And we'll almost certainly have to let Chris Jones go now, because we have Frank Clark instead. It's a disaster.

I literally don't give a shit about run defense. We won't get beat because a team runs the ball. We need people that can get to the QB, like Chris Jones.

comon' man, did you really rewatch it?

https://www.chiefs.com/video/alex-ok...n-3rd-and-goal

What'd you post?

Veach: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.

Schneider: We're closing for the regular season.

Veach: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this Seahawk what I purchased not half a year ago from this very franchise.

Schneider: Oh yes, the Frank Clark... What's wrong with it?

Veach: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!

Schneider: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's getting chipped at the line.

Veach: Look, matey, I know a dead Seahawk when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

Schneider: No no he's not dead! He's getting chipped at the line of scrimmage! Remarkable DE, the Frank Clark, idn'it, ay? Beautiful locker room presence!

Veach: The locker room presence don't enter into it. It's stone dead.

Scheinder: Nononono, no, no! 'E's getting chipped at the line!

Veach: All right then, if he's getting chipped at the line, I'll run some wide 9 blitzes to wake him up! 'Ello, Mister Pass Rusher! I've got a lovely fresh QB for you if you beat the TE...

Schneider: There, he got a sack!

Veach: No, he didn't, that was Derek Carr running right into him!

Schneider: Never!!

Veach: Yes it was!

Veach: (yelling) 'ELLO FRANK!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! It's 3rd down an long! Time to make a play!!

*nothing happens*

Veach: Now that's what I call a dead pass rusher.

Schneider: No, no.....No, 'e's double-teamed!

Mr. Praline: Double-teamed?!?

Schneider: Yeah! He got double-teamed, just as you were dialing up pressure! Frank Clark attracts the attention of all blockers. Very dangerous looking pass rusher!

Veach: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That pass rusher is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not 'alf a year ago, you assured me that its total lack of an elite production season was due to it being tired after chasing around Russell Wilson in practice.

Schneider: Well, you're probably pining for Ford.

Veach: PININ' for FORD?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that? Look, why did he fall down the moment he engaged a shitty Jacksonville OT?

Schneider: Frank Clark prefers keepin' on the ground! Remarkable player, id'nit, squire? Lovely spin move! Beautiful run defense!

Veach: Look matey! 'E's passed on! This pass rusher is no more! He has ceased to be good! 'E's got his money and gone to **** it away! 'E's a broke dick! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If I hadn't arbitrarily put in him the starting lineup 'e'd be backing up for the Miami Dolphins! 'Is QB pressures are now 'istory! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is NFL clout, run down the northern border and joined the bleedin' CFL!! THIS IS AN EX-PLAYER!!

LMAO

That's cause you are a ****ing idiot. I dont think youd ever hear one HC in the NFL say 'We don't give a shit about run D'

What an idiotic take.

We will not lose a game because our run D sucks. We are giving up almost 6 yards per rush, which is one of the worst all time, and only giving up 23.5 PPG. That's good for 18th in ppg, which is middle of the pack. So we are giving up the 2nd (can't remember exactly what the tweet said) most yards per rush in the history of the league, but we are undefeated and we're still ranked 18th in ppg allowed. So a historically bad run D, but we're still average in the one ranking that matters PPG. So explain to me how run D matters.

Also I take it back, you are a douchebag loser.

Let's be honest nobody was pounding the table for Preston Smith he only had 4 sacks last year and its clear Veach during FA was focused on safety with Mathieu and thought be had Thomas too.

Nobody would confuse me for a fan of Veach or a Chiefs apologist. I hated the Clark trade but looking at it on draft day it made sense.

lol

we'll get bounced in the playoffs, like always, because our D sux.

Nice way to spend an evening though, I guess, dissecting a bunch of meaningless stats

Nah I still think Jones will be back. Looking at the trade in hindsight plus the production was it too much? Yes. Does Clark "suck" even after 4 games I would say hes ok. Worth what weve paid 4 games in? No.

Btw folks go ahead and label me BossChief its cool.

Frank Clark the month of September last year 0 sacks.
October he had 1 sack.

I have conceded he hasnt played up to his contract thus far. A guy making that much should have more production.

Can I atleast use the it's only 4 games let's give him more time before we judge him overall excuse?

Back in 17 he had 1.5 sacks in September, 3 in October, in 16...

He is Responsible for a gap (or two) but he is Playing/reading based on what the tackle does. I do agree with your assessment of our run defense issues though. I actually don't disagree with most anything you said, other than he doesn't read the tackle. Thats one of the first things youre taught as a D lineman. If he blocks down, get hands on him, look for pulling guard, backfield, can be counter, inside zone, etc.

Yeah that's fine, it's really not even an excuse. Everyone wants him to be an elite level player, but he has barely been even mediocre.