Yep, but then you have those that want us to believe as they want to believe, it is just incompetence. They remind me of a kid screaming when they find out there is no easter bunny or Santa Claus.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/igcw0--GcVg" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm sure the news of Orlando Brown's calf injury 30 minutes before the game has zero impact on the lines...

Ok, I can't post the link right now because I am on my work computer, but I think Rabblerouser is way off on this line changing stuff. I'd love to see proof if I am wrong. This is all via Oddshark.com. You can go there if you want more detail. I left out dates where the line did not change.

Bovada
Opening line 12/26: Chiefs -4.5
12/28: Chiefs -5
12/30: Chiefs -5
12/31: Chiefs -4.5
1/1: Chiefs -4
1/2: Chiefs -4

BetNow
Opening line 12/26: Chiefs -4.5
12/26: Chiefs -5
12/27: Chiefs -5.5
12/28: Chiefs -5
12/31: Chiefs -4.5
12/31: Chiefs -4
1/1: Chiefs -3.5
1/2: Chiefs -3.5

BetOnline
Opening line 12/26: Chiefs -4.5
12/27: Chiefs -5
12/28: Chiefs -5.5
12/30: Chiefs -5
12/31: Chiefs -4.5
1/1: Chiefs -3.5
1/2: Chiefs -3.5

Clearly, there were no significant jumps in the line, especially on the day of the game. I'd love to know where Rabble is getting his info.

/condescendingprickdisabled

https://www.newspressnow.com/sports/...0f47f2f92.html

Okay. This provides some context.

The NFL tests refs for covid on Monday. On Tuesday, it was announced that this Torbert guy would not be officiating the game, but on Sunday, out of the blue, he ended up working it anyway. I would think it's fairly likely he tested positive for covid but then was asymptomatic during the week and also got a negative test so was able to work it.

I would imagine the other substitutions are covid-related as well.

So, at a minimum, if you can provide evidence that the line moved from Monday to Tuesday to Wednesday, that would at least provide some evidence that perhaps someone somewhere believed this to be some nefarious rigging activity and bet on Cincy as a result.

But then the guy who was subbed out worked the game anyway!? Maybe he had a change of heart and became more rig-friendly during the week?

LMAO... no, you are absolutely not using logic here. This conspiracy nonsense is quite the opposite of that.

In all of my examples the line went up Tuesday and Wednesday and then started coming back down later in the week.

Absolutely I agree with BlackOp's perspective. A lot of us do. And I'm not ignoring anything.

I don't know how deep it goes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/profoot...-accident/amp/

https://www.ibtimes.com/super-bowl-f...-proof-1549788

https://bucswire.usatoday.com/2021/0...-dwight-smith/

https://www.nytimes.com/1983/09/29/s...ix-hinted.html

Super Bowl III is interesting, because of the whole merger. And Don Shula (with Earl Morrall) going to the hapless Dolphins, who within 2 years had the NFL's only perfect season. In paradise.

And then Super Bowl IV...

Donald Dawson ...the cash...Len Dawson getting arrested and basically telling the FBI that it had nothing to do with Vegas and everything to do with establishing the legitimacy of the NFL...

The Kansas City Shuffle.

How deep DOES it go??

All you are doing is providing examples of players and others who think like you do. None of this is proof.

What about your assertion that the line moved right before the game when the replacement ref crew was announced? Can you refute the stuff I posted?

The only thing that doesn't pass the logic test is "boy them refs sure are bad at their jobs, herp-a-derp! They need to be gettin' them there eyes checked! Need new glasses ref?? DERP!"

The only thing that doesn't pass the logic test is "boy them refs sure are bad at their jobs, herp-a-derp! They need to be gettin' them there eyes checked! Need new glasses ref?? DERP!"

And, for the record, I was responding to someone else's comment.

I said that they were being logical. I agreed with that person's statement.

Someone please quote my posts in case Rabble put me on ignore...again.

I'd love to hear his side on this and have him prove me wrong, if possible.

https://c.tenor.com/sElmhbybTFAAAAAC...urt-thingy.gif

No, I can't refute anything about the line. It is what is. They move all the time.

And those are Super Bowl champions who also think like I do. Correct. People who have played the game at the highest of levels.

I'll say this....in Tim Donaghy's book he specifically states the league told them to steer games certain ways. i.e. extend playoff series etc.
Now, I know I'm referring to an NBA ref from 15 years ago, but if that shit goes on in the NBA I don't see how it doesn't in the NFL.

I think it's more of an attempt to keep games close or steer them for better matchups/more revenue. I don't think they have a huge conspiracy from one year to the next where they say " Ok this is the Bengals year boys!" People like Brady definitely get preferential calls too.

I'd say the fact of the NFL being entertainment and not a sport is pretty good proof

I certainly don't think every game is rigged but football is a business and it's worth so many billions that it isn't left totally up to chance in my opinion. No business this valuable would be.

Before Goodell I think it was pretty clean but since he took over I don't think it is. Kraft got him the job and it just so happens he gets 3 rings immediately and Brady is constantly getting big calls at the right time even after the mass video tape stuff that the league totally covered up. That scandal was massively big and they destroyed the evidence. Brady games have hosed us hard with officiating to say the least.

Al Davis sues the other owners the same year as the tuck rule game. It was an obvious fumble to everyone in America. Coincidence?

Katrina hit and the Saints win the SB. Is that not odd?

LA gets the Rams and then the famous no call PI gets them to the SB. Coincidence?

Manning goes to Denver and in his worse season ever gets another ring, then walks away.

These are just a few situations that don't compute but there are more shady games. The Bengals game is just like insane. Give me a break with all those game changing flags. One after another and 3 were totally bogus.

Are you STILL crying about this? It's been like 2 days, you're like a distraught woman that's upset. We lost, due to crappy calls but OUR DEFENSE gave up 300 yards to a WR.

That's why we lost. ****, quit being a bitch. Stop watching and maybe you and blackops can go off together and make sense of all of this. Bring that 1 guy who thinks the Earth is only 600 years old and figure it all out.

rabble - Please post your evidence that the line moved as a result of announcement on Tuesday. And also, did you notice it move back once it was announced that the originally-replaced ref was actually going to be working?

This will help us further the debate more than your posting the same links (for the hundredth time) about a handful of random ex-players alledging something with zero proof.

The whole "having the same antitrust laws as the WWE" is pretty damning, too.

There's just so much evidence that points to the league's manipulation during games and absolutely no evidence to refute it.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...why would someone assume it's anything BUT a duck?

I have none. We've established that lines move.

Whatever. I don't need to make anyone believe what others see as blatantly obvious.

That was a horseshit travesty on Sunday. You can believe that the officials were that terrible if you want. If league officials and players' accounts aren't enough for you, it's okay.

Wait. You kept throwing this 'STOP AVOIDING THE DISCUSSION OF WHY THE LINE MOVED' card and then you fold like a Bills mafia brokedick table?

And then cited people who were SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS as backing up your outrageous, evidence-less claims?

You're a smart guy, dude. But this is not your best moment. I've wasted enough time playing these games of make-believe with you. Enjoy fantasyland, Peter Pan.

JUST WATCH THE GAME

Don’t forget Jerome Bettis winning a SB in his hometown and the Harbaugh brothers facing off in the big one.

Correct.

Ironically that would be an example of actual logic. In this case, Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is the most likely.

Like I said, you don't understand logic.

I folded because I'm just not knowledgeable enough about gaming and odds making to get that deep into it.

I'm smart enough to know that isn't my bread and butter here and will simply convolute the point.

And also, people with more knowledge than me about gambling have addressed the line, and I moved on accordingly

It's only simple if it makes sense.

If those refs were THAT terrible...how come all the shit calls went to the Bengals' benefit?

Athletic officiating has been poor for my entire lifetime. This isn't a new phenomenon.

And it will continue to be, because humans are falliable. Players make numerous mistakes in the course of play, but we expect officials to be perfect.

Calls are missed in every game, in every sport, every day.

But it's easier to claim the fix is in rather than accept that shit happens and your team lost.

Again if they were THAT terrible...really just pert near incompetent...how come all the shit calls went against the Chiefs?? Wouldn't they just...suck? And not just suck for one team's benefit??

It's almost like you've never watched sports before.

Again, happens in every sport.

Why does Team A get 6 Power Plays in a hockey game while Team B gets 1?

Why does Team A go to the free throw line 26 times in a basketball game while Team B only goes 10?

Why are the Raiders the most penalized team in football year after year?

Because sometimes, teams are just undisciplined and take stupid/bad penalties.

Hell, the officials could have called MORE penalties on KC than they did Sunday, I recall several instances where I told my wife we got away with no calls - DB's holding jerseys and Wylie (I think) absolutely tackling a pass rusher.

As much as you don't like it, several of the calls that went against us were the right call - but add the few that were poor calls at inopportune times to the others and you have people like yourself that chalk it up to RIGGED.

You're a moron. Calls go both ways all the time. This is you whining like a little bitch. You want to blame someone for this loss? Start with Spags and Fat Andy.

I wish like hell I could find the Dick Butkus story. Yes it is.

Steered is a much better word than rigged.

Like someone mentioned before... in many games, (especially hyped matchups/primtime) the refs provide the rubber band handicap (like racing video games) once a blowout is in order.

Watch any game this weekend that starts to get out of hand. Refs will start tossing flags to make the game closer.

They want close games and drama, they do not want complete blowouts because it deters viewers.... and what is the big money maker in the NFL???? TV contracts.

The Chiefs got some calls in 2019 because it was the greatest story in the NFL. EXACTLY 50 years since the last super bowl... NEW Exciting QB changing the game with no look passes, etc...

I know. It's like it's gone. It's been removed from the internet.

If they "go both ways all the time", why was last Sunday such an exception?

It's okay, I'll wait here while you call me names and figure it out.

Yeah, I saw someone point out 4 calls in the game, but two were pretty obvious. One DPI was horrible, but the whole uncatchable thing is missed a decent amount. And I didn't see the dual holdings, and saw someone say the illegal hands to the face was hard enough that the receiver had to adjust his helmet mid-route. There was also a missed offsides and the encroachment call.

It's a convenient slope that "holding like that happens every play" or other vague rationalizations when it comes to letting them play.

The 3rd down DPI was the worst of it, IMO, in terms of calling a penalty when there clearly wasn't one, minus not seeing the replays of the dual holding calls.

After that, it's just biased reaching to fulfill a theory.

And like I've said in this thread already, I really don't know WTF to believe in terms of if and how games are influenced and to what extent. To believe BlackOps is to believe a pretty widespread conspiracy that most likely involves players, if entire weeks of the season are suddenly rigged with upsets.

End of the day though, we can guess and debate how deep it goes or if at all, but the NFL certainly doesn't help with the total lack of accountability... and it doesn't even matter to me why games are completely ruined, just that they have been.

Sigh.....

Do you remember our game last year when we stomped Buffalo in the AFC championship game?

Do you remember that a lot of people thought our CBs got too grabby and handsy? Hell, the announcers were saying it I rememeber. I'll bet that over at whatever the Bills version of CP is, those fans were saying that the league wanted us to win and let Badger and everyone else grab and hold as much as they wanted.

Meanwhile back over here, we were all celebrating. No thoughts of defense holding and pass interfering.

Point is, like I just said call go both ways. We got away with shit in AFC title game, Sunday, we didn't. Refs called it shitty...I'm not disagreeing with you about that. Happens every week.

You're asking me about why last week happened? Because the refs had shitty calls. No more, no less.

Bigger question is why didn't Spags double Chase? Why didn't we use the 2 high shell defense that teams having been using on us all year long so that we make Cincy go the distance the long way and take away the deep ball. Why didn't Andy let them score at the end so Mahomes could get the ball back?

^^^^These are much better questions as to refs wanting the biggest star in the league to lose^^^^

How do you explain the televised week 16 games? Chiefs routed the Steelers for the entire game. Didn't seem to be any ref action to even that. How about the game that followed, where the Cowboys put up 56 points on WSH? The Monday night game where the Saints couldn't score more than a FG? Just ignore those examples?

Regardless, TV contracts are not dependent on viewership of individual games. That's not how it works.

IIRC, 9 of this week's games had a winning margin of 10 points or more.

8 of those 9 had a winning margin of 17 points or more.

I registered just for this thread. The Bengals had two penalties called on them on the final drive. Same number as Chiefs. Both were killer. One took them out of relatively easy FG range and is often a drive killer...holding on 1st and 10 at 24 yard line to 1st and 20 at the 34...why call THAT flag if they wanted Bengals to win?

On goal line, the offsetting penalties cost Bengals a TD. IF no holding call on Bengals, Mixon would have been given a TD on review. Ball crossed before his elbow hit, you can look it up. So refs not only called a penalty on Bengals they also marked him down short. Neither seem indicative of refs nudging Bengals to win. Boyd had to adjust his helmet after the hands to the face...do you really think if the roles were reversed you wouldn't agree with that penalty if it was on Hill?

On Pringles TD...the flag was thrown well before it was obvious he would return for a TD and he was obviously held. The refs had no way to know at that moment of the penalty he would run it back.

I thought the unnecessary roughness call on Chase was BS and there was a ticky tack PI that was also, I thought, a bad call. Otherwise it was a pretty typical Bengals game as far as penalties go. We are one of the least penalized teams in the NFL.

You guys are passionate fans and hurt by the loss so I am not trying to stir sht up. Just trying to bring some opposite view points. Peace

Good first post. Don't mind the small handful of conspiracy knuckleheads. They do this after about every Chiefs loss that involves any kind of officiating mistakes. Not a word when it happens during a Chiefs win.

Cool avatar. Is that fireball supposed to be Earth?

Appreciate the welcome...I have enjoyed reading the board these last few days as the Chiefs and their success are what we aspire to become.

I don't buy into the rigged or conspiracy stuff, but the worst call was the PI on your final TD drive. You guys were punting with us still leading if that horrible call was not made.

Then there was the inexcusable defensive call we made on that 3rd and 27 play. Just brutal.

You guys have a shitload of young talent. Lots of potential. Hopefully we'll see many more competitive games like that over the next few years.

Thanks. I would assume so but we never really see what the astronaut looks like...could be some weird alien looking at a different planet.

Welcome, and agreed. There's always a lot of bias that goes into these threads, as with any forum for any sport, and we often ignore or blindly accept whatever happens on the opponent's side of things while diving head first into any supposed wrongdoing for the Chiefs.

And when there are obvious calls, like the holding on the kickoff return, it becomes a slope of "that's never called" or "you can call that every play".

And if you're part of Bengals Board, tell your mods to lighten up a little and allow other fans... it's more fun that way. :)

Least penalized teams? Exactly the point. Joe is becoming a star. Chase is already there. The league wants you in the playoffs and we were housing your ass. So here comes the flags to get control and they did. 6 times they gave you a first down from flags. If not for the flags we would have kicked you ass. 5 were on 3rd down when we stopped you.

Oddly...it looks like we get you guys at Paul Brown Stadium again next year...not sure why it's not alternating. If we managed to win a game in playoffs we could also face you at Arrowhead in division round. So could be three times over this year and next.

Here’s a look at who the Bengals will play on the 2022 schedule.

Home:

PIT
BAL
CLE
BUF
MIA
ATL
CAR
KC

Away:

PIT
BAL
CLE
NE
NYJ
NO
TB
TEN
DAL

I sure wish they would have lent us a hand in OT losses vs Packers and Chargers!

Interesting info about the effect of the penalties on the KC/Cin game:


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bengals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Bengals</a> gained over 60% Win Probability from penalties in their Week 17 win over the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a><br><br>It was the 3rd largest WP gained from penalties in any <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFL?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFL</a> game this year<br><br>The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Eagles?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Eagles</a> again overcame a large WP loss from penalties and clinched a spot in the playoffs<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFLStats?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFLStats</a> <a href="https://t.co/aGLQU8oUzi">pic.twitter.com/aGLQU8oUzi</a></p>&mdash; acCOUNTable refs (@AcCOUNTableRefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/AcCOUNTableRefs/status/1478432910449549315?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 4, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

There might have been a few questionable calls, but I'd point to any number of Chase catches (Sorenson blown coverage, the one where he outran literally our entire defense, and 3rd and 27), a dipshit penalty by that other white guy on our roster who I also hate on the kick return TD, Hill's dropped pass before halftime, or just putting up 3 points total in the entire second half before I really get into the officiating.

Plus, why would the NFL want to rig this game for Cinci? What sense does that make? Their market is just as small as KC's. Plus they've been historically bad. No one gives a shit about seeing the Bengals in the postseason.

And by hurting us, they help the Titans. Why? Now there's a good shot the AFCCG is played in Nashville. It's a cool party city and decent weekend travel spot for basic chicks, but the football world gives no shits about it. Another AFCCG at Arrowhead would be a lot cooler.

^ Well there you have it.

I saw this too but they have like 400 followers and they aren't transparent on how they collect/interpret data.

Though if you're inclined to believe, it's interesting that KC/CIN was only 3rd most impactful game of the season regarding penalties.

Some here would lead you to believe it was the most egregious match fixing in the history of sport.

This year was based on divisional alignment, where all AFCW teams played all AFCN teams... and that is on a home/road rotation, so in a few years the game will be at Arrowhead.

Next season they'll play because they're both 1st place teams. I'm sure there's some reason for home vs away, but it's not tied to the divisional rotation.

Ah ok thanks for the clarification

You forgot the two uncalled false start penalties and the failure to call delay of game on the final drive.

and didn't Jerome Bettis go out as a SB Champ in his final game in his home town in Detroit when Detroit hosted it?

The only truly atrocious call was illegal hands to the face on 4th and goal with a tie game and 33 seconds left.

In basketball, you'd say "swallow your whistle."

You can't throw that flag. You can't. It's just unacceptable.

Idk man. It was pretty blatant. Nothing ticky tack should be called there, but Boyd's head got turned sideways.

That shit is on Fenton, not the refs.

at a minimum / in general, I think games are steered to stay a 1 possession game for as long as possible during the game to peoples eyes stay on the TV and commercials.

I have no idea what the stats of that are; ..but it always seems like margin of victory in most games is like 4 or 10.

Don't forget, we won our second Super Bowl exactly 50 years after winning our first. That made for a great story, too.

Do I think the league conspired to get the Chiefs that win? No. But I do think they didn't pull their usual machinations to stop it, either. Remember when Miami beat New England to help secure us a bye? Normally the ref$ would have NEVER allowed the Dolphins to score on that final drive. But during that one game there were no obvious/questionable Brady-saving flags thrown. That just.... never happens. But it did that day.

We're a small market team with a limited fanbase. Even having Mahomes can't change that. I don't think the league will ever pull out all the stops to actually help us win like they've done with so many other teams. The best we can hope for is that they call a rare honest game.

This game mirrors SB LV too much. Not to trigger PTSD( players handled it pretty well)

in Cincy again?

RIGGED!

Yes he did and Ben was given a td but he was short of the goal line
Plain as day.

Why don't you guys allow fans of opposing teams to post on your forum?

That Seattle/Pitt SB is one of the most rigged games I've seen.

Also Chiefs/Broncos was moved to a stand alone Saturday game, Chiefs win Sunday that probably doesn't happen...

The Bengals Board(dot)com? I honestly wasn't aware we didn't. Has someone tried to register and was denied? I always like seeing fans of other teams post in my other teams forums.

The moral of the story is: no more white safeties. You'd think the Chiefs would've figured this out by now.

At least 3 or 4 of us tried, as we wanted to be part of the "what Chiefs fans are saying" thread and welcome people to register here... but, we were all denied, except one person who registered as a Bengals fan. Never even got to post. :shrug:

I couldn't believe that dumbass committed that penalty at that moment. It had no effect on the play; he didn't even need to do it.

Cost us 7 and a shit ton of momentum.

Not just Bengals forums, most forums are that way. This forum is a rare bird where we welcome the opportunity to shit on opposing fans.

It seems like most fan bases around the league are way too sensitive for that.

Don't be like that. We only shit on them if they are ****heads first.

This guy seems cool, but someone is intent on keeping him his rep red. ROFL

LOL Boyd's helmet was turned sideways on his head.

I've been looking for the replay of that and can't find it.

NFL hides it rigging duh. ;)

So far I've learned that if we don't play the perfect game, great game plan, not bad coaching decisions, no blown plays, all the sins committed by the zebras are forgiven.

I'm not lost that we maybe could have overcome the sins of the zebras, but at some point they should be evaluated on their performance outside of the players mistakes. From calling things both ways, to selectively swallowing their whistle, to flat-out just not calling things because "those things happen on every play", at some point there has to be a separation between each group's individual performances.