The stupidity is off the charts.

1. Every LT in the division is above average to great.

2. He's definitely better than Bolles who has to hold every play, and conveniently started playing better when the refs stopped calling holding as often.

3. This is like saying the Broncos shouldn't pay Russell Wilson because he's the 3rd best QB in the division.

Who gives a **** where he ranks in the divison anyways? He's a top 10 LT with the upside to get better, especially at his new weight. Enough can't be said about his availability too.

What I find absolutely hilarious is that people that are overly critical about Brown would be bitching non-stop about whatever LT we draft when they inevitably struggle early on.

Terrible post.

His takes usually are.

Why, because you disagree?

Because you’re having a quasi-hysterical overreaction to him answering a question when asked.

If Brown and his agent were playing this in the media, he be appearing on podcasts or hosting podcasts or holding press conferences.

Might still happen, but it has yet to happen.

If he was coached by his father he'd know what to say, like Pat Sr did with Patrick.

Then there's the fact that he didn't get in shape for the combine like Jordan Davis to avoid having " The worst combine ever".

The kid isn't the second coming of Willie Roaf or Tony Boselli

A top LT contract would be 10th in the NFL for non-QB’s. What’s interesting is that Trent Williams guaranteed money is $40 million which is a lot less than other players.

For example Aaron Donald is $46 million and Tyreek Hill is $52 million

I still maintain that these guys like Nick Bosa are going to take a blowtorch to the position and demand Tyreek Hill money bc they are more valuable players than WR’s.

Just wait. Pass rushers and tackles are coming for that money. They know they have the leverage.

It’s relevant because he’s asking for a contract that could make him the highest paid tackle in the nfl. If he’s not the worst LT in the division, he’s the second worst. Woohoo I guess. I don’t mind paying him a reasonable contract but I would be careful not to commit too much to the guy.

I already talked about AAV pages ago, and here we are back to the same shit, so I'll just repeat myself. Do me a favor and tell me how many top-5 contracts don't have a backload. Of course, it's going to be backloaded. That's why everyone talks about it in AAV, to keep it simple. Yeah, he's going to probably have 15m in year one and 35m in year 5 and I really do not give a ****. Look at the middle years and they'll tend to be right around AAV. At the end of the day, if you chop off everyone's final season and everyone's AAV drops, then you're still at the same comparison level. So, you've done nothing for your argument whatsoever. He's still being paid too high relative to his peers for similar performance. I don't have to agree with it nor like it, and I don't, but it's likely going to happen anyhow.

Welcome to the NFL where roughly 10% (at most) of the big money contracts actually are worth it.

Von Miller
JJ Watt
Justin Houston
Kirk Cousins
Russell Wilson
Dak Prescott
Khalil Mack
Eric Berry
Eric Fisher

There are countless examples. So yeah we’re going to pay Brown Jr a backloaded contract full of money he’ll never see in the end like any other player. Get the **** over it.

Unless you want to try your hand at FA to pay the same money for a non-elite LT bc elite LT’s rarely if ever leave their teams bc they get taken care of. Oh and good luck in the draft. It’s been shown that a LT as good as Brown Jr is mostly picked in the top 12-13 picks so again we’re giving up a ton of draft assets to push our team back even further in Mahomes prime years bc only one LT (Darrisaw) who is similar in talent has been available past pick 20 in the last 5 drafts.

Seriously just **** off with this shit people. There are no options and Brown Jr is a quality reliable tackle.

It’s gonna happen and you’re gonna have to deal with it regardless

If you look at Geron Christian's passblocking profile he could pull it off

I don't know how many times it has to be said, but when you have a guy that is entering their prime, acending, and playing a premium position, that's just how it works.

You could be the Jags overpaying to keep a LT that isn't even good.

Teams just aren't going to let those guys walk and put their franchise QB in danger if they don't have to.

Thank god you aren't in charge.

Yes, very rare it's ever worth it. Makes the whole "suck it up buttercup" type of point a bit worrisome, doesn't it?

...

If we do sign him, we do. I fully expect it even if I don't fully support it. I'd like to see another season of him before handing him that type of deal. I mean, one year of mediocre play doesn't tell me "hand the guy the biggest bag!" I do understand the fundamentals driving your argument though. He doesn't completely suck even if he isn't also all-world, and he's available. Like I've said, that's valuable. I'd re-sign him for that alone, but not for the fullest Brinks truck. Now, if he proved he could be better than this past season? Yes, I'd back it up. I do get the Chiefs are in the position of pretty much needing to take that chance at this point, and it could end up well worth it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Geron Christian&#39;s 78.8 Pass Blocking Grade in 2021 ranked 15th among Tackles (min 500 snaps)<br><br>Welcome to KC, Geron! <a href="https://t.co/cqRqew0PWB">pic.twitter.com/cqRqew0PWB</a></p>&mdash; PFF KC Chiefs (@PFF_Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Chiefs/status/1506027873676652545?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 21, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yes, I think he's a pretty decent swing tackle.

But in no way would I want to bank on him as my starting LT.

If OBJ is being an asshole, I'd definitely roll with Christian.


Orlando is an elite run locker but is very average at passblocking

So I understand Brown has the leverage and hopefully he and KC can come up with a back loaded deal both can sign off on and he does get better and everything is rainbows and unicorns.

But isn't there some point where KC has to walk away from the deal? Isn't there any amount of fully guaranteed money you would say that's just too much?

I suppose the dignified answer is to quit having the same discussion over and over again and just wait and see what he is willing to sign for. But that's rather boring.

I hope it works out both from a contract and performance perspective, but I'm not as optimistic as I was with say resigning Chris Jones the first time around.

The three most important positions on the field are the QB, the guy who rushes the QB, and the guy who protects the QB’s blindside. Knowing that it’s inevitable that the last two are going to want to be paid accordingly.

He doesn’t ****ing need to be.

Jesus.

You guy should just come to grips that Willie Roaf is gone. We tried to get Silverback, but it didn’t work out and the kid we got is solid, showed improvement as the season progressed, lost a bunch of weight in the offseason and is putting in a lot of work on technique. He and Pat are developing chemistry to where they will find tune the dropbacks. Playing next to a guy like Thuney will help him continue to fine tune how they deal with pass rushers that Orlando doesn’t match well with, skill set wise.

The kid should develop into a strong pass blocker.

A deal that is REALLY 5/105 is too high? Because I know you've said before that his true peers are guys like Jake Matthews, who recently signed an extension that added 3/55M to his deal, making his total contract remaining 5/104M.

Keeping it in AAV does keep it simple. But some of these deals are being designed with an ego-stroke throw-away year on them, and some of them are not.

That 's a difficult thing for me to swallow considering what guys in his tier and below his tier have gotten on recent deals.

I don't believe he has to drive to do so, with all the shit he's doing to trim down and working with other specialists during a contract year.

OBJ wasn't doing this shit during his draft process which he had the resources to do so considering who his dad was. " I'm proud to be the most unathletic player ever"

"Look how he's working hard"

With the cash he wants unless he'll take a discount, Orlando will be held to the Willie Roaf tier.

By whom, you?
You don't seriously think that means a DAMN thing, do you?
Fans think their opinions mean something and they don't mean jack or shit.

LOL, no expectations amirite

Yes. Leverage.

A deal that is really 5/105 is acceptable to me but you aren't likely to see that on the OP contract of 6/145. You're probably more at 5/115 with that deal. It may be only a couple more million but I'm already at what I'd consider my upper bounds on 5/105 as I feel his true value is more in the 5/90 range. I mean, my opinion doesn't matter but I'd like to see the Chiefs push back on this one a bit and not just cave.

We will see. I think we're going to see a deal that is structured like Adams' and Hill's deals.

I do believe pretty fervently that you're valuing him based on COVID-affected pay grades, and not paying enough credit to how the cap is about to explode.

It would be pretty hard to push back and say his true value is the same as a shitbag like Cam Robinson and lower than that of Jake Matthews, who is in the same general tier as Brown but is several years older.

But again. The difference between 5/90 and 5/105 over five years is ($3M/year).

I mean, I think I only watched one Jags game this year but PFF has Cam Robinson allowing 1 sack last year. In a much much worse system, under a much much worse coach, in front of a much much worse QB. Honestly how is he much worse? And even he's overpaid so how overpaid will Brown be if we cave to his demands.

Brown played more snaps last season than Christian has played in his entire career and both were selected in the 3rd round of the 2018 NFL draft.

how many years did the fridge last?

no LT above him in wage weighs more than 315...

and don't dare say clubs have no right to force a player to be under a certain weight...

it happens all the time when money is involved :thumb:

How many of them are 6-8?

Also, what do you think Trent Williams weighs (hint: it’s more than 315 pounds).

365 or whatever he was didn’t work as well for him. So he lost a bunch of weight in the off-season.

Fridge was like 350 in a different era. Totally different thing. That would be like being 400 pounds now. This is a disingenuous argument.

Brown has dropped 20 pounds and intends to play at 340-ish, to move better. This is a positive development and indicates that he's aware of and working to improve his mobility issues. I don't see how you can spin this into a negative.

And Christian will have an opportunity to improve on his success, like a backup QB who has skills to be a good starter that has a chance.

This is very true, and I'm in the camp that does not want to make him the highest paid LT in the league. Because of that reason alone, I don't think he'll sit on his ass once he gets paid. You're right in that there is no way to spin it into a negative.

It's definitely good, but he hasn't been doing this from the start is concerning.

He'll have good contract year, but what happens during his 2nd year into the contract and whatever that follows

It seems like some on here think unless he is a for sure HOF LT then he has no value. **** him. Lets dump the 1st round pick we already spent. Give up 2022 and 2023 first rounders and go up into the 9-15 pick and take a gamble on a new LT. That's insane.

THIS!

We are too far down this path to quibble over $3 million. He plays out this year under the tag, its going to cost more money than some on here realize. The cap is going to explode. Everyone knows that. That's the reality.

If he wants to be the highest paid, and not take a team friendly deal then **** him he's not good enough to be given a blank check.

It's wild to me that the same people that don't want to spend top dollar on OBJ want to spend all the draft picks to go up and draft a LT.

Veach just proved, again, how valuable those draft picks are to the Chiefs remaining competitive when we are paying 1/2 billion to our QB. Who is worth every penny but other players myst be let go to retain money/draft picks in the pipeline.

There are only 8 players left on the team that won the SB. This will happen throughout Mahomes career. Brady won SB's with JAG WR's, good OL and defense.

I'm actually not opposed to not paying him. If they think there's another option that they could work towards, go for it.

But I also wouldn't be opposed to paying him. LT is just a spot where I don't think you can take many unknown risks.

Oh, I completely agree here. If he's adamant out being the highest paid left tackle in the league... But I'm okay with giving him a Top 3 deal, because he's shown improvement last year and he's doing what it takes this offseason to get better. But that's just my opinion.

I also get the economics of the situation, so I'm not going to be all that bent out of shape if he does become the highest played LT, until the next LT in line signs a big deal.

So lets hear of your vision of what that "other" option is? How did we get that other option? What did it cost?

I have no idea. I'd guess maybe the draft next year, next years free agency a trade etc.

I know you didn't ask me. And I know I will get hammered for stating my opinion again. But here it goes, anyway.

Move Thuney out to LT.
Put Allegretti in at LG.

Use the now 30 million in cap space (currently at 14 million + the 16 alloted to OBJ) and the draft pick or two from moving OBJ to get the D linemen to finish overhaul of the defense.

(If by chance OBJ does not get a new contract and elects not to play on the tag, I hope this is the route we go as well. Watch the regular season game vs the Bengals before just spouting off that you don't move an All-Pro. You asked for an option. I gave you one.)


Here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNuDhzR37_I

Ok, well that's not really an acceptable answer.

No. That's a a terrible plan.

It's really not a terrible plan. It's just one that you don't agree with. That doesn't make it terrible.

Dude thats a horrible plan. Take your All-Star, maybe the best in the game at this position to a new position? Allgrettt has been inconsistent. Both of these could **** us big time. Get Mahomes hit more. And who are the backups if they are out for a couple of weeks? Even worse players playing out of position. We need consistent protection of our football savior.
Just my opinion

Let's make 2 positions weaker? No, that's a terrible plan.

Thuney would end up having alot of the same issues everyone bitches at OBJ about becasue of his short arms and stature.

At this point, it's OBJ or bust this year. If you don't wanna pay him, keep him on the tag, hope he shows, tag and trade him next year and then look at the draft.

Take an all pro G, who's played his entire career at G and been an emergency T and move him to LT.

It's terrible and has a less than zero chance of happening.

Plan B, if Brown sits out, is Christian. Thuney is not an NFL LT. He's not.


Now, if you're okay with Christian manning LT, that's an opinion, just one I strongly disagree with. Thuney is a bad fit for the position and moving him weakens 2 spots.

Agreed. It's a terrible idea.

Thuney would also immediately come and ask to be paid as a LT.

Describes me perfectly. I wasn't sold on Brown's fit in KC before they acquired him, and I was concerned early on. The progression he showed as the season went on, combined with the things he DOES do well, put most of those concerns to rest.

He's never going to be a smooth-moving LT who glides to the edge and kills the speed rush with consistency and ease, but he also is never going to be a light-in-the-pants LT who gets bull rushed into his QBs lap.

His ability to turn DEs into one-dimensional plan guys is an UNDERRATED skillset. Yes, it keeps Mahomes from drifting back in the pocket and bailing out WIDE like he likes to do... but that's a bad habit. It also generally is going to create a lot more space to move up and throw or escape up the middle.

The system he was in until coming to KC is a factor there, too. They run a different system that is based on being big, physical maulers. The incentive wasn't there the same way... and yes, while it would have been good for him to focus on shedding some weight and gaining quickness proactively coming into his first year with the Chiefs, he's doing it NOW. Which shows he learned and is working to improve off of it.

This pretty reasonable. I'd love to get him on a surplus market value deal, but that isn't realistic. I also am going to be patient if/when an extension and terms are announced, because I know the structure may make it look different in reality vs. what it sounds like just based on years and AAV.

It introduces a lot of risk to the function of the OL and the function of the offense. Thuney struggled with Hendrickson in the second half of that game (a guy Brown made a nonfactor in the rematch).

You're making yourself worse at 2 OL positions and hampering your depth, too.

This includes his conditioning during the draft process to avoid having a horrible combine.

That in itself is troubling. If he wants to be the best then why wasn't he training to achieve that goal.

I think some on here are instinctively pushing back on the idea of best paid tackle in the NFL. Of COURSE they're going to ask for it but it doesn't mean they'll get it.

I could see top three in the NFL but can also see some aspect of his contract being highest in the NFL, maybe signing bonus. But then as the details emerge it's actually a team-friendly deal like Mahomes' was.

I don't think OBJ wants to leave. I think they'll find a meeting point.

Yup. Nonsensical.

But I can't imagine how draft picks would change my own personal financial challenges in life like I can with 3 million dollars. Even though that shouldn't factor into this discussion at all I feel like it is with some of these posters.

Exactly this. The only thing this team has to counteract Mahomes contract is draft picks. Mahomes contract honestly is a great deal but it’s still a heavy QB contract.

You can’t lose draft picks and expect to use money to fill the gaps. Hell we just did that with Sammy Watkins, Frank Clark and Tyrann Matheiu and look at what happened? It was 2 years production at the most for any of them.

There’s a reason the Chiefs loaded up on draft picks 2 years in a row.

I haven't followed this thread much but outside of the OP has there been any rumors about how much he is asking for etc?

Depends on how many draft picks it takes. If we could trade brown and use all of THOSE picks on drafting a left tackle then I'd consider it.

But that's because I think Brown is close to his ceiling, and giving him a huge contract now precludes you from improving that position for four years. You know he's never going to be the best LT in the league. You're accepting limitations for a perceived floor.

If I think a draft prospect has the potential to be the best left tackle in the league and ostensibly trading brown straight up for that prospect saves $20M a year and removes the ceiling (and it must be said - the floor), then I think it's worth the gamble. maybe not going into this season, but certainly next.

I could be totally wrong, and Brown keeps 20lbs off forever which allows him to handle speed rush. That could absolutely happen, too. Which is why I'd want him to play this year on the tag and I can see what I've really got in him.

It won't happen, though. They'll pay him, he'll be adequate for winning a championship, and the focus will continue to be on fixing the DL and WR positions. I won't complain.

He wants to be the highest paid Left Tackle so 150+ Million

I'm not really sure where you get this idea to be honest, considering he just turned 26 and was never really asked to work on his pass blocking at left tackle at all in Baltimore.



also because he looks like this now:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVthUpuX...jpg&name=large

I hope having AIDS doesn't hamper his pass blocking. ROFL

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chiefs’ OT <a href="https://twitter.com/ZEUS__57?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ZEUS__57</a> says his family has been impacted by Type 1 Diabetes. <br><br>Today, he had his blood drawn, enrolling him in a global TrualNet study to bring awareness and help find answers for T1D. <a href="https://t.co/kWDToO9USS">pic.twitter.com/kWDToO9USS</a></p>&mdash; McKenzie Nelson (@McKenzieMNelson) <a href="https://twitter.com/McKenzieMNelson/status/1538930710404386817?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 20, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


don't you feel like a shithead now

Maybe because he was 21 years old, dominated in high school without focusing on those types of things, and dominated in college without focusing on those types of things?

His performance also did improve at his Pro Day. Maybe he took it more seriously and prepared better. Maybe he worked on improving some things he could control. Maybe it's just the pro day bump (though it's hard to fake vertical leaps.

Regardless, not enough for me to buy the idea he's lazy and doesn't care.

Why would I? Has his family been impacted by AIDS?

Jordan Davis and Evan Neal took their process seriously.

MAYBE, OBJ's just lazy and is trimming down to get paid. Once he has top dollar he'll balloon again.

Hot take: Evan Neal is actually a worse pass blocker than OBJ

The best thing about OBJ is his desire to be great, to be a Hall of Famer. I really have no doubts about this kid. Pay the man and forget about the LT position for 5 years. Does he need to get better. Yes. I think knowing what's expected in KC and how they will use him matters. I bet he really improves next season.

When players initially join the Kansas City Chiefs (my favorite team) I don’t always assume immediate or eventual success, but I definitely won’t assume or make negative judgements about their character, drive, or work ethic until I see some real non-speculative evidence. It tends to be a good guideline to follow in the non-football world, too.

“He had a bad combine” is a pretty stupid singular thing to point to if you want to make a claim that a player is the next Albert Haynesworth.

Especially when there are hundreds of people at Arrowhead Stadium who know far more about that player than you or anybody else on this forum, and their stated #1 personnel goal for the remainder of the offseason has been, “Extend OBJ’s contract.” And of course, the underlying non-spoken message you can probably take from that is, “We feel comfortable that OBJ won’t slack off once he gets paid.”

That's alot of excuses, he didn't take it seriously but now he's leaning out for a payday.

I've said my piece why the sudden change of work ethic is alarming. This season he'll look good what happens down the road once he's paid is what I question.

I gave you literally zero excuses. I also didn’t fluff up his play or be a homer and go “I believe he’ll be amazing!”

I said it’s stupid to assume he’s lazy and has a poor work ethic because of his combine performance 4 years ago.

That's a metric ****ton of shit bringing in Albert Haynesworth which I never compared him too. He also takes pride being a shity athlete, I don't like hearing that either when it comes wanting success but not putting anything into it until suddenly it's time for a payday and hopefully OBJ thinks it's a candy bar so it costs less to sign him.

When you are the guy who said Nick Bolton is a show string tackler, maybe you should slow down on throwing out more player evaluations.

Has anybody ever told you that you have a very poor command of writing and grammar? Your post is damn near indecipherable.

Posting on my phone, so zooming in and panning back it happens