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-   -   Chiefs Teicher:Prodded by Andy Reid, Chiefs QB Alex Smith learning to be more aggressive (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=273618)

DaneMcCloud 06-30-2013 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9783706)
He should have hired YOU, Dane! Because you're a goddamned ****ing expert in ALL THINGS IMAGINABLE!

You chastise me for stating that Andy Reid and John Dorsey were the best possible hires the Chiefs could have made in 2013, yet when asked "Who you have hired instead?", you avoid answering and make a lame response.

You look more and more foolish with each post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9783706)
I've never considered myself an expert. I go with what my gut tells me. In the case of the Chiefs, I have history on my side as well. It is what it is.

So, Hank Stram was a poor hire? Marv Levy was a poor hire? Marty Schottenheimer was a poor hire? Dick Vermiel was a poor hire?

I would not have hired Herm, Haley or Crennel. But Herm did have usefulness, as he collaborated with others in the front office to assist in some of the best drafts in recent memory. Haley was an awful hire IMO and while I had "hope", based on Crennel's work with the team at the end of the 2011 season, he was even worse. I hated Pioli before he was even hired.

But regardless, Andy Reid and John Dorsey are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE to Pioli and Haley/Crennel. The Alex Smith trade was MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE to the Trent Green or Matt Cassel trade.

But thanks for admitting that you don't know anything about the NFL, its coaches and players because anyone with a brain that didn't know that before, certainly knows it now.

DaneMcCloud 06-30-2013 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 9784800)
As to the question of sitting, we'll never agree.

Owners, GM's, coaches and fans want results. It's impossible to develop a QB in a vacuum today. There are not only contractual issues but issue with players, whether it's a great running back or a receiver or even a safety. Everyone in the NFL wants to win now. Players are currently lobbying Sanchez over Smith in New York because they don't want to lose valuable years off of their careers in order to develop a guy.

The likelihood of an NFL team selecting a QB in the top five (and probably top three) and sitting him for a year is zero percent. Teams choosing in the Top Five are choosing there for a reason and they sure as hell don't have a year or two to develop a player when a player that can immediately step in and start is available.

With all due respect, it's "Old School" thinking and that game has passed by.

milkman 06-30-2013 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 9784788)
With all due respect, you're entering GoChiefs territory in terms of creating a False Narrative.

1. Quarterback Rating is irrelevant.
2. Chiefs send six players to the Pro Bowl, you say "Worthless".
3. Alex Smith beat the Saints for a playoff win "Saints defense sucks".
4. Alex Smith led his team to the NFC Championship Game. "Why didn't he win it?".
5. Alex Smith was a fumble away from the Super Bowl: "He was terrible on 3rd downs".
6. Alex Smith was 18 of 19 in his last game: "QBR is worthless".
7. Alex Smith led his team to 18 victories in the past 18 months of play "Smith was along for the ride".

So, if QBR is worthless, Pro Bowls are worthless and wins are worthless, do you mind explaining how anyone can quantify a player's worthiness?

You've known me on this forum for how many years?
I've been consistent in my disdain for stats without the context of watching.

That QBR suggests that Alex Smith is more than he is.

The last two years he has been nothing more than an efficient game manager.

Sweet Daddy Hate 06-30-2013 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 9784806)




But regardless, Andy Reid and John Dorsey are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE to Pioli and Haley/Crennel. The Alex Smith trade was MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE to the Trent Green or Matt Cassel trade.

Sure it is. Keep telling yourself that.

DaneMcCloud 06-30-2013 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9784815)
Sure it is. Keep telling yourself that.

Why don't you tell us who they should have hired?

BigMeatballDave 06-30-2013 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9784815)
Sure it is. Keep telling yourself that.

You act like the Chiefs are the only team who has ever done this.

DaneMcCloud 06-30-2013 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 9784812)
You've known me on this forum for how many years?
I've been consistent in my disdain for stats without the context of watching.

That QBR suggests that Alex Smith is more than he is.

The last two years he has been nothing more than an efficient game manager.

But Milk, with your disdain of QB rating and Pro Bowls (not to mention wins, in the case of Smith), how are we (or anyone, for that matter) supposed to quantify a player's worth?

Look, I'm not defending Alex Smith. I wish that a better option would have been available. I see him, numbers-wise, as probably a top 15 guy in terms of yardage and TD's. I think he's capable of providing a 10-12 win season and a playoff win. But if you put the game on his shoulders, it's likely that he won't be able to deliver.

But in that regard, how is he any different than most QB's in the NFL? Peyton Manning is an All-Time Great and how many times in the playoffs has he been able to deliver the goods?

DaneMcCloud 06-30-2013 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueFanDave (Post 9784828)
You act like the Chiefs are the only team who has ever done this.

He's just a whiny, dumb ****. He criticizes everyone, yet offers no alternatives. His primary reason for posting is to harass and "insult" anyone that believes the Chiefs are heading in the right direction.

In short, he's a worthless poster.

Sweet Daddy Hate 06-30-2013 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueFanDave (Post 9784828)
You act like the Chiefs are the only team who has ever done this.

Are the Chiefs the only team dumb enough to keep repeating the same mistake over and over?

"Snakebit"!

milkman 06-30-2013 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 9784830)
But Milk, with your disdain of QB rating and Pro Bowls (not to mention wins, in the case of Smith), how are we (or anyone, for that matter) supposed to quantify a player's worth?

Look, I'm not defending Alex Smith. I wish that a better option would have been available. I see him, numbers-wise, as probably a top 15 guy in terms of yardage and TD's. I think he's capable of providing a 10-12 win season and a playoff win. But if you put the game on his shoulders, it's likely that he won't be able to deliver.

But in that regard, how is he any different than most QB's in the NFL? Peyton Manning is an All-Time Great and how many times in the playoffs has he been able to deliver the goods?

You can not quantify with stats.

You can support certain arguments, but you can not quantify.

John Elway's numbers were somewhat pedestrian through most his careern but if you argued he was anything other than elite, you were either biased or an idiot, or both.

DaneMcCloud 06-30-2013 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate (Post 9784841)
Are the Chiefs the only team dumb enough to keep repeating the same mistake over and over?

"Snakebit"!

The San Diego Chargers, for example, have drafted three quarterbacks since 1998. Ryan Leaf was a bust, Drew Brees never won a playoff game and Philip Rivers (who's on his last legs in that town).

That's two first round QB's in 16 years and another that would be considered a first rounder today (#32 overall). How many championships have they won?

There is more than one way to build a Super Bowl team.

DaneMcCloud 06-30-2013 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 9784849)
You can not quantify with stats.

You can support certain arguments, but you can not quantify.

John Elway's numbers were somewhat pedestrian through most his careern but if you argued he was anything other than elite, you were either biased or an idiot, or both.

I think that stats are only part of the equation. I do think that they're important but as you stated, they can be misleading.

So if we're just going to let our eyes be the judge, I'd say that Alex Smith has had a couple of really nice seasons recently and appears to have either put it all together or he's really close to putting it together.

But according to GoChiefs False Narrative (in which he admitted cherry-picking stats in order to promote his point of view), stats are everything. He's formed a narrative in which stats prove that Alex Smith is a bottom-tier QB and he'll continue to be a bottom tier QB, regardless of coaching or scheme.

Personally, I think the truth lies somewhere in between the stats and the eye test. But the quarterback rating, coupled with wins, does tell a pretty compelling story, especially if there are multiple seasons of data available.

keg in kc 06-30-2013 01:04 PM

There is no good argument in favor of a team not drafting a quarterback for 30 years.

DaneMcCloud 06-30-2013 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 9784877)
There is no good argument in favor of a team not drafting a quarterback for 30 years.

That blames has always lay squarely on the shoulders of the Hunt Family, although I do believe that Pioli, ever the salesman that he is, sold Clark a bad bill of goods.

And for the record, the Pittsburgh Steelers went 25 years between drafting a first round QB, so they weren't far behind.

LiveSteam 06-30-2013 01:09 PM

If only Matt could have been on of these/efficient game manager


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