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jeffp12 01-29-2009 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 5437085)
Would you trade Brian Waters for Matt Ryan right now, jeff?

Brian Waters is 31, so hell yes if it was an option, but it never would be. So do you mean if they were both rookies? I don't know, depends on the situation, how easily could we replace waters, what depth do we have, whats the QB situation? If it was the draft and we're considering who to pick it'd be close. I really like Matt Ryan because he played at BC where he wasn't well protected like Sanchez was at USC, the guy was succeeding despite not being protected well, that's the mark of greatness, so I would probably have taken him. A qb succeeding without protection is a difference maker. A qb succeeding while well protected hasn't proved himself to me yet.

Nightfyre 01-29-2009 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12 (Post 5437096)
Brian Waters is 31, so hell yes if it was an option, but it never would be. So do you mean if they were both rookies? I don't know, depends on the situation, how easily could we replace waters, what depth do we have, whats the QB situation? If it was the draft and we're considering who to pick it'd be close. I really like Matt Ryan because he played at BC where he wasn't well protected like Sanchez was at USC, the guy was succeeding despite not being protected well, that's the mark of greatness, so I would probably have taken him. A qb succeeding without protection is a difference maker. A qb succeeding while well protected hasn't proved himself to me yet.

Obviously you have not watched enough SC. Also if they were both rookies, you could draft waters in the 2nd round to 3rd round even if you knew exactly who he would become.

Mecca 01-29-2009 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12 (Post 5437090)
K.

Did you see the colts without Jeff Saturday? Yeah, didn't do so hot.

Look at when we had Tony Richardson, or look at Lorenzo Neal, wherever he went the guy rushed for a 1000 yards.


And I'm not saying Shields is more important than Elway. When a QB is an amazing obvious Hall of Famer it changes things. But if I was building a team, this is the order of importance to picking guys. You put Elway in there without good Guards and he won't be able to step up in the pocket. You put generic quarterback number 3 in a well protected pocket and he'll pick apart the defense.

Where was Jeff Saturday drafted?

This will easily prove the point on draft day, you can tell me they are valuable in games great, all positions are but in relating to the draft interior lineman are not valuable. Many late round and undrafted players are productive interior lineman...

You need to separate positional value of the draft and it on the field.

jeffp12 01-29-2009 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good (Post 5437092)
Ah k.. So a nose tackle in 3-4 is valuable enough to take with a top 5 pick... On another note, do you think Dorsey can play end in a 3-4??

I dont know. The guy was touted as being an athletic phenomenon that would be a sure hit in the NFL, but who knows.

Chiefs=Champions 01-29-2009 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 5437094)
I think he could, personally. Supposedly, he operates best in space.

It seemed he struggled somewhat in the nose tackle postion he played this year in the 4-3.. Im just not sure that an end in a 3-4 takes that much of a different role.. But yer i guess the space may benift him somewhat...

jeffp12 01-29-2009 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 5437097)
Obviously you have not watched enough SC. Also if they were both rookies, you could draft waters in the 2nd round to 3rd round even if you knew exactly who he would become.

They have an immense talent base, they have so many weapons and an awesome defense. Sanchez was definitely not pressured as much as Ryan was at BC.

Mecca 01-29-2009 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12 (Post 5437096)
Brian Waters is 31, so hell yes if it was an option, but it never would be. So do you mean if they were both rookies? I don't know, depends on the situation, how easily could we replace waters, what depth do we have, whats the QB situation? If it was the draft and we're considering who to pick it'd be close. I really like Matt Ryan because he played at BC where he wasn't well protected like Sanchez was at USC, the guy was succeeding despite not being protected well, that's the mark of greatness, so I would probably have taken him. A qb succeeding without protection is a difference maker. A qb succeeding while well protected hasn't proved himself to me yet.

This is really funny, Mark Sanchez got hit quite a bit...you're looking at the SC name nothing more I bet you honestly can't name the starting SC line or their years of experience..there isn't superior NFL talent all across that offense, without Sanchez it will be reflected.

And I'm sorry a guard is much easier replaced than nearly any other position.

Nightfyre 01-29-2009 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good (Post 5437101)
It seemed he struggled somewhat in the nose tackle postion he played this year in the 4-3.. Im just not sure that an end in a 3-4 takes that much of a different role.. But yer i guess the space may benift him somewhat...

All d-lineman barring that freak warren sapp struggle in their first 1-2 years. He'll come around yet.

Chiefs=Champions 01-29-2009 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 5437104)
All d-lineman barring that freak warren sapp struggle in their first 1-2 years. He'll come around yet.

No i understand that.. Even Sapp wasnt all out his first year.. But my point is i can see him being great in a tommie harris type role and not so much as a space eater, which he would be in a 3-4 situation...

Mecca 01-29-2009 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffp12 (Post 5437102)
They have an immense talent base, they have so many weapons and an awesome defense. Sanchez was definitely not pressured as much as Ryan was at BC.

I'm an SC fan, I'd love to hear who you think the immense talent on offense is, defense sure, offense no.

Nightfyre 01-29-2009 02:58 AM

Here's a fun hypothetical. Would you trade a #3 draft pick for Tommie Harris right now if we were to stay in the 4-3? I think I would. It'd take forever for me to decide, but I think I would.

Mecca 01-29-2009 03:00 AM

I wouldn't because he's injury prone and we don't have a QB...

This is going to be one of the few times in franchise history we'll have a chance at one and it pisses me off to see some people want to take a OT with it when we took one last year.

Nightfyre 01-29-2009 03:03 AM

Mecca, what is your take on the trade down possibility? Is it conceivable to trade down to the 5-8 range and still nab Sanchez or Stafford? If so, whom do you think is the most realistic candidate for wanting to trade to the 3 spot?

Chiefs=Champions 01-29-2009 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5437111)
I wouldn't because he's injury prone and we don't have a QB...

This is going to be one of the few times in franchise history we'll have a chance at one and it pisses me off to see some people want to take a OT with it when we took one last year.

Yer prob this.. Rather high on stafford and Sanchez.. otherwise i would...

jeffp12 01-29-2009 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 5437107)
I'm an SC fan, I'd love to hear who you think the immense talent on offense is, defense sure, offense no.

I'm sorry, but there's no way Sanchez was in as tough a spot as Ryan was at BC. Maybe he didn't have top prospects around him like Leinart did but it's freakin USC they recruit like nobody's business. BC on the other hand...not so much.

I would much rather be taking a guy from I-AA Delaware who wasn't surrounded by one of the best teams in the country.

Look at the record

last year Flacco from Delaware, Ryan from BC both are instant hits.

2007 Jamarcus from powerhouse LSU hasn't done much, Brady Quinn at Notre Dame, I know they have been sucking, but they still recruit very well.

2006 you have Vince Young from Texas, Matt Leinart from USC, and who's the successful one? Cutler from Vanderbilt..

Eli went to Ole Miss, a good team, but in a strong SEC, he was certainly tested.

Rivers went to NC State, they're not that great.

Roethlisberger went to Miami of Ohio.

Kyle Boller went to CAl, Rex Grossman Florida. Not so good.

Carson Palmer is the exception.

Recent history doesn't favor the QBs from top schools.


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