Ya think? :banghead:

What did those turds do today? Was out gettin some sun.

Matheny thought Cleto was the place to turn when protecting a 1-run lead.

It wasn't.

Marte was kind enough to give up a 3R HR after Cleto put two men on without recording an out.

This bullpen isn't good, but Matheny is also particularly bad at managing it. Going to Cleto in that situation was asinine.

This.



We need a right arm that doesn't suck shit in the dugout.

Well we've pissed away this series not being able to score a damn run.

I was totally against the Rasmus trade. So WTF do I know.

But, I do know we cant keep shipping off our best prosepects for rental players and expect to compete every year.

On my Cardinals board I said we needed a lock-down 5 man bullpen. Matheny isn't a good enough manager to make chicken salad out of this mess.

What he needed there was Lance Lynn to turn to. He got stuck, as many mediocre managers do, in trying to massage the 7th inning. Right now he has 2 legitimate bullpen arms in Motte and Boggs and that's it. If he has Lance Lynne in his bullpen, he wins this game because he goes to Lynne in the 7th there.

The great managers can get by with a mediocre bullpen. They can mix and match and cajole until the staff falls into place. Matheny just isn't a great manager. He needs to have a 'pen where he can simply smile and dial.

This 'pen needs 3 more parts; 2 lefties and a hammer righty. Scrabble could do us a favor and become one of those lefties. Mozeliak will have to get us the other 2 because Sanchez is lost, Salas was never that great anyway and the rest of them are just warm bodies.

I'd strongly consider trading Shelby Miller for Tim Collins and Aaron Crow.

Scrabble stinking it up, too. Jesus. We'll be lucky to get out of this inning without it getting any worse. :shake:

That would probably work out pretty well for us.


I would have really liked or would like to make a deal for a starter.

Jocketty did.

The trick is to make sure that 'best prospects' /= 'best players'. Jocketty was a master at knowing exactly which of his players were legitimate ML prospects and he held onto them like grim death. He'd misfire on occasion (refusing to trade Aybar for Kevin Brown, who then kicked ass in SD for a year), but for the most part he was aggressive and it served us well.

I've been of the mind for awhile that Jenkins, who is not our best 'prospect' should be our most tightly guarded pitcher because I thought he projected best at this level. In my world, you trade Miller because he's the 'best prospect' but not Jenkins because he's likely to be the best player.

We pay scouts for a reason. When Shelby Miller was throwing 94 to start the year, our scouts would've known before everyone else's. Miller's star as a prospect didn't really start to fall until the last few weeks. He should've been dealt before then.

Does anyone not remember the Dan Haren trade?

Whew.

:#:#:#:#:#:#:#

If Rasmus gets it together and becomes a perrenial All-Star we can live with that, not just because we won the WS but because it just wasnt working out for him here. Maybe with Methany it would have been different but we had a log jam in the outfield. Someone had to go.

Haren would be like throwing in Jenkins.

Haren was not considered a gem within the system. He was considered a guy that was just another decent arm probably destined for middle relief or the 5th starters role. Hell, many thought Kiko Calero was a bigger loss.

He was a scouting failure. If you're going to cite Haren, it has to be for the proposition that you trade nobody. Because Dan Haren would most assuredly not be analogous to Shelby Miller.

The 'gem' in that deal was Daric Barton and I notice you didn't call it the 'Barton' trade; which was what it was considered at the time.

If you trade Trevor Rosenthal or Tyrell Jenkins and he ends up being a stud, you've duplicated the Dan Haren trade. The Mulder trade perfectly illustrates my point, though. It wasn't Barton (the 'stud' in the deal) that hurt us - at all. Barton was among the top 10-15 prospects in baseball at that time and dealing him didn't hurt us a bit because ultimately our scouts knew more than everyone elses did (he wasn't going to stick at C or ever hit with enough power for 1st). I think dealing Miller is likely to have similar repercussions.

Like I said - it's a scouting issue, not an approach one. We need to make the right scouting decision here and I think we have already failed in doing so by allowing Miller's value to depreciate to a point that we can't get the talent we would've snagged for him before the rest of the league saw him throwing slop.

Trading Miller for Hamels would be just like trading Barton for Mulder. You have to hope that Hamels is better than Mulder (likely) and that we don't throw in Jenkins for giggles. I absolutely remember the Mulder trade and it does very little to bolster your argument.

Carpenter delivers - Freese with a chance to tie or win.

If Miller sucks so bad why would any MLB team trade anything of value for him?

Because you're asking for 2 relief pitchers for him and everyone and their brother thinks they know something that nobody else does. Teams will still be intrigued by a guy with a sparkly Baseball America label because they think they'll be able to fix him.

You're not going to get star value for him at this point. You won't be getting Cole Hamels for him after his last 2 starts, that's for sure. But if you offer him to a pitching starved team like KC for 2 relief arms, especially when their GM prides himself on his ability to re-build a bullpen on the fly - well hell you just might get something valuable in return.

Do you happen to recall the guy we refused to include in the Mulder deal? The guy that was the next 'ace in waiting' and future superstar. The guy you certainly would've been referring to as a future CY winner?

Anthony Reyes. The unquestioned #1 pitching prospect in the organization.

Trading your best prospects doesn't hurt you. Trading your best players does. If we'd have traded Daric Barton (our top prospect) and Anthony Reyes (our best pitching prospect in a decade) for Mark Mulder, we'd have been a far far better team for it.

The window to get a Mulder returned has closed, but if we trade Miller now, we can probably get a little more than the Luis Perdomo we got for Anthony Reyes.

Great AB by Descalso.

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER

Raffy!!!!!!

Catcher did a TERRIBLE job there.

EDIT: The catcher did a terrible job handling the ball.

Tip o' the cap to the home plate umpire there. Most umps call Freese out because the throw clearly beat him there. Buck didn't block the plate and get the tag around, Freese did a nice job of finding the back of the plate and the ump got the call right.

Great win. And if you ever wonder if Tyler Greene should be the starting 2b, just go ahead and watch that AB from Danny D. That kid is just a dirt-devil and a smart ballplayer. Greene would've swung out of his shoes 3 times and taken a seat. DD just fought and fought and kept the AB alive long enough to move the line along.

Great great job by Descalso there and a smart AB by Furcal, just swatting at those outside pitches.

He sucks so bad the Royals got rid of him.

thats a good way to into the break. :clap:

We went to the game Friday, which was a shitty loss. Anyway, we sat right behind the Marlins dugout. I cam away thinking the Marlins are making a mistake by putting Ramirez at third. He just doesn't see comfortable there and doesn't really know how to play the position very well.



I know some here won't like this, but I think about making a move to bring him to STL to play SS.

no thanks. Too many reported issues in the media with effort. I'm sure there are many more unreported to the public.

He will be may too expensive and with a new stadium, no way they could sell that to the public.

Don't need boy scouts all over the diamond.

Bring Hanley in, have him play average defense at SS w/ his offensive potential batting 5th in your order and you're much much better for it.

Broken record alert: I'd deal Miller and Cox for Ramirez and Chishek and Oviedo without thinking twice.

I'd be on board with that trade.

If his D was questionable at short and he can't play 3rd, why not try him at 2nd where we don't have anything anyway? Still, never gonna happen. You can't give up all the pieces you have saved for the future.

Cox isn't being saved for the future any more than Bryan Anderson is.

The problem with Hanley is the incredible popularity of Rafael Furcal. The team loves the guy. He's a great teammate and his energy is invaluable to the clubhouse.

You don't play him at 2b because he'd pout and because his footwork would be an absolute disaster. Though if you could get him to be a good soldier, play hard and learn the ropes over there, you'd have the best starting 9 in baseball - Rangers included.

Keith Law on Oscar Taveras:

Apparently, Oscar hit a shot off the scoreboard in CF in BP. That's a ridiculous bomb.

Furcal
Beltran
Holliday
Craig
Ramirez
Freese
Yadi
Jay
P

Would be pretty solid IMO.

pre-Cub version of Alfonso Soriano ROFL Wrigley Field, where careers go to die

Thats gonna leave a cubbie mark. :D

You don't want to give up all your pieces no, but you also have to figure a good majority of them aren't gonna hit what they are projected to be.


You know what a Grienke or Ramirez bring.

Would like to still have Chris Perez in the bullpen.

that ship has sailed.

Anyone hear or give any credence to the Vasquez rumors?

What are they?

Strauss from the post dispatch says its the most likely deal at the present time.

The guy from the Pads?

I think Wrigley is the biggest reason for the Billy Goat Curse. They play so many day games their club is always shot by June.

Waino might be the unluckiest pitcher in the league this year.

I hope they show a replay when they come back from commercial. Greene looked safe.

Bought MLB.TV for the rest of the year to watch the Cards and the game is experiencing difficulty and won't show.



Damn.


Whats going on?

We're blowing another Wainwright start.

Our Bullpen is a joke right now.

We lost tonight because we didn't put the ball game away earlier in the game when we had the chance.

Certainly nothing that turd Fuentes would improve upon. If that is the level of "help" they are considering, I'd rather work to get a #4 type starter (Wandy?) for a Cox/Greene type prospect trade and move Lynn to the bullpen. Lynn/Boggs/Motte in the 7th, 8th, and 9th would be a huge upgrade for the pen.

Berkman activated off the DL, Shane Robinson sent down. Berkman will not have a minor league rehab assignment since its felt that the Redbirds can ease Berkman into the lineup with plenty of options at first base.

This is as good a club Cincinnati fans are likely to see for a a while, and they can't get people to come out for a Saturday afternoon, nationally televised matchup against their biggest rival.

Unbelievable how many empty seats there are.

How much longer you guys think Rolen will play?

Is thier stadium downtown? :D

So, why is Shumaker not our every day 2b?

Also, why is Tyler Greene still with the club?

Some one please give me a decent reason why Tyler Greene is on this team.

"He's fast" isn't a decent reason.

:doh!:

**** you.

LMAO

Goddamn, Jon Jay turned back into a pumpkin this year.

**** you, Matheny.

Well that wasn't smart.

Sadly, that's becoming a trend for our manager.

Don't know why at 0-2 you try and bunt still.



Chapman is just blowing us away here.

Thought that was a foul ball?

I've rewatched that 4 times, and still can't understand how that was called a fair ball.

Joe West crew, FTW.

It bounced in the dirt, behind the plate.


Pretty sure thats a foul ball.

I guess no Motte, since it isn't a save opportunity?

Scrabble is exactly the guy I want coming in with the game on the line.

(what is the official CP sarcasm font?)

He's been shit this season.

Well.....



Damn.

I didn't see it, but if it ended up in fair territory then its fair.

Ugh.

I don't know that you could really tell from the angle, but it appeared to me the catcher made the play while it was in fould territory.

Why the **** was he in there with bases loaded and the game on the line? :banghead:

Going back to the amazing World Series last year, my friend is a giant Rangers fan. Towards the end of Game 6, I texted him to offer up congratulations for his team winning a World Series. LOL! To this effing day, he blames me. To this day...

I thought that was Holliday pissing down his leg with the bases loaded.

Oh wait, that was yesterday.

At this point, Matheny is not a big league manager. I tried being patient, but that's all done now. Two things yesterday that make me want to shake him:

1) Keeping the bunt on for Jay against Chapman after he looked like a complete reerun the first two tries. I usually only see the bunt with two strikes gimmick with pitchers.

2) Putting in Marte in the 10th. He is pure shit. Motte needed the damn work and at his worst is 752% better than Marte.

I'm not ready to throw Methany under the bus. It seems that everyone who played with him from team mates to coaches thought he would make a great manager. Current core players like Molina and Wainwright love him as a manager.

Thats going to get a full season of OJT before I start calling for the guys head.

Besides I wanted Tony gone and I got my wish and a WS title. I really got no right to be bitching and calling for the managers head at the break.

Anyone watching the game on ESPN? You see Molina in the dugout and the ESPN booth said he seemed "focused" from the booing? :D

It would be nice if they'd focus on scoring more than two goddamn runs a game.