As far as "hahaha @BossChief how do nickel corners lose football games?"

Dumbass...because quarterbacks that do their homework target guys like Robinson because they are an easily completion. For first downs, touchdowns and big yardage.

If the guy plays half the defensive snaps, he will give up more touchdowns and first downs than either of our starting corners.

they were.
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When you claim a player off waivers or from another teams practice squad, they immediately go to the 53 man roster.

I bumped the ps thread for you
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Remember how Pioli thought drafting the guy who played across from a stud was a good idea? Meanwhile, the rest of the league went after the actual studs.

Meh. Jimmy Smith isn't very good, either.

His combine results were pretty good. His straight line speed was mediocre, but his agility and strength tests were outstanding.

40 yd: 4.53 (19th)
3 cone: 6.59 (1st)
20 yd shuttle: 3.98 (1st)
broad jump: 124 (8th)
vertical jump: 35.5 (22nd)
bench: 21 (3rd)

It's hard for me to understand why he was still available in the 7th round too.

LMAO Nobody wants Pioli's trash.

He played in a gimmick offense with a running quarterback at Michigan and as a byproduct of his situation wasn't very productive and his skills weren't developed in a way that would be attractive to NFL teams.

Joke from the Royals threads when they were winning games back in July/August

Who's the ncb for the Seahawks? 9ers? Bears?

I have no idea and those are some of the best defenses in the league. Yes, you can't have shit at your 3rd corner spot, but like DJ said, look around the league. Not many teams trot out 3 great corners.

I'm also of the belief that if we're that worried about our 3 and 4 corners losing games, players 1-22 aren't doing their jobs.

It's time for the stars of this team to be stars

Pass defenders get targeted by QBs all the time. If Dunta Robinson doesn't find his testicles somewhere, his play against a team like Denver with a QB like Manning will look like Vince Agnew out there.

And that most certainly will lose a team the game.

the problem is Dunta Robinson is getting paid 15 million to play exactly like an UDFA or late round pick that you can plug to do the exact same thing by paying the league minimum.

that's the argument. Paying a good to premium price for the same exact garbage play does not, and will never make logical sense.

Manning will make flowers loon like Agnew if we don't have guys around him in his face.

I guess that's what I'm getting at. If our front 7 doesn't or its better at rushing the passer, it won't matter.

He'll the 9ers are starting namdi at 1 corner. That dude was awful last year, yet I'm sure hell be competent there because of the pass rush

That I can get on board with.

Here we go again.

NOBODY expects "3 great corners" if I am going to respond to you, don't put words in my mouth or it's pointless to respond ...but to act as if we should have just stood pat with Jalil Brown is just silly. The dude was horrible in coverage and didn't show improvement over his time here. It's no mistake that NOBODY claimed him on waivers, even though he was on a cheap rookie contract for a 4th rounder.

Again...I can't believe anybody is disappointed that we cut Jalil Brown...except BlackBob.

He LOVED Jalil.

i just dont understand the hype and protection of these Pioli picks like Jalil Brown and Jerrell Powe for the last ____ seasons/years.

If these guys were worth a shit by any other teams GM/scouting personnel, they would have been claimed instantly by someone. ****ing Ricky Stanzi was claimed, and made a final roster by DOING NOTHING. think about that. The fact that all the GOOD teams let the Jalil Browns and Wylies and Powes through waivers should be telling of what other teams think about our trash/depth.

Hell, the Chiefs and Jags claimed like 14 guys yesterday, I'm assuming other teams were ready to claim guys like JMJ, Moses, etc that we got. So good on Dorsey for taking advantage of being 1st in the order. Something Fat Scott never ****ing did, because he just would give his draft picks immunity on the roster, no competition and would never ever cut them for another teams cuts

people are used to standing pat because Scooter Pioli would stand pat with guys like Jalil Brown, Powe, etc. So you had no choice but to cheer for them, no matter how obvious it was they were bad. But excuses always flowed that it was the schemes fault, the coaching, the QB, and that once all that was fixed these guys would climb the depth chart.

Well scheme and coaching did change and you see what a real coach thinks of them now.

The secondary is only as good as it's weakest player.

That guy is Dante Robinson and I GUARANTEE that opposing quarterbacks will know exactly wheee he is when he gets on the field and will be licking their chops.

I don't know if you've got stuff going on personally or if something pushed you over the edge here, but youve taken on quite the opposite end demeanor than we were used too. It's fine either way, but hopefully all is well.

And I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I don't really care either way about brown. I'm simply stating that more times than not, what he brought and was us what your gonna get with the 4th cb on your roater

Sorry, but I don't neceaarily agree with that.

Anyway, who do you guys consider to have the best secondary in the league?

This !:thumb:

I'm plenty positive about the majority of this teams current makeup.

I just don't think it's realistic to think that a 31 year old corner that got burnt repeatedly last year is gonna find some mythical fountain of youth and start playing well again...especially after seeing WITH MY OWN EYES him getting burnt repeatedly by whoever he was facing in camp.

I also like seeing guys that were/are crap (like Brown) get shitcanned and replaced by the scraps of elite teams that have too many quality players at these positions.

I didn't agree with getting bent over a barrel to get a quarterback like Alex Smith and think spending the top pick in the draft to replace an above average player was a complete waste of resources.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm pretty damn happy with just about everything else they did this offseason.

Not sure why you think I have changed sides or anything...I've always tried to remain a realist.

were you not here last year when everyone said Stanford Routt was just as good as Brandon Carr

then the season started, and a lot of people ate crow for how badly Routt brought down the entire secondary.

but the excuses still flowed that it wasnt Routts fault, it was the scheme, coach, QB, etc

Same shit that will happen when Dunta cant cover anyone.

Ok cool.


I think you overrate the impact said corner will have on the success of the team, but I do agree he probably isn't goo to greatly improve.

I was just curious as it seems every other post you make is something about "drinking this kool aid" or "lotta homers after we beat this team or that team". Bit like I said, either way, good to hear all is ok

That's ok. I understand why.

You want to go back to when you completely enjoyed watching the Chiefs and when you were trying to be objective, it took some of that away. I get it.

I find enjoyment in many ways regarding this football team and until they start winning real games again, MOST of that enjoyment comes from deciding which moves I choose to go along with and which ones I choose to disagree with and have always had no shortage of reasons why I form those opinions.

To each his own.

Will dunta be our 2 corner?

Seems coaching might have something to do with it in the case her because they've already made changes in the secondary.

But yes, if we have Robinson singled up on other teams primary wr like we did with routt, we will probably have trouble

Its amazing how much better a secondary can look when you have a pass rush.....

No, because it just doesn't make sense to me that you base the grade of an overall secondary on its 3rd best cb.

Again, who has the best secondary in football?

The Chiefs spent more money and got older and probably got worse by replacing Arenas with Dunta Robinson.

I'd agree with your "realist" comment, except that the reality is that we cut Brown for a guy who is equally bad and expendable, but isn't nearly as good on special teams. IMO.

If we had last years special teams coach again, I'd agree.

But with Toub being here, I'm thinking the drop off between brown and the guys we brought in will be negligible.

I'm much more worried about our dl depth and overall dl than I am our secondary at this point.

At least this staff is quickly identifying the problem early on and have moved him down the depth chart.

Hussein Abdullah is the nickel guy from what I've read.

Honestly, I don't even see a place for Robinson on this team at all.

He can't match up against starting wideouts.
He can't cover the quicker guys that man the slot
As a safety, he isn't a better option than Hussein and is probably a push with Lewis.

I wonder if they are trying to trade Lewis or Robinson...even if we get a ham sandwich out ofthe deal at least it gets that salary off the books.

The contracts of Daniel and Robibson should have gone to more worthy players.

He's be a better option at fs than Lewis IMO, with his playing style that would actually put him in a pretty good position.

Just play center field and be aggressive. He's a good tackler and isn't afraid of contact like Lewis seems to be

Demps will end up playing a lot somewhere.

Really don't have a problem with our D-line. Ascending Nose Tackle, two solid enough DEs. Nice depth guy with upside in Bailey. Good developmental guys in Catapano and Jaye Howard.

I like the Sean Smith signing. Every other move we made at CB was a complete dumpster fire. It's not a good sign when you assign your Safeties to play as your nickel guys.

He's trying to be like Clay.

I really would have rather signed canty if it were possible than Robinson, but I don't know what happened there.

I'm just not hugely concerned in our corner spot after looking around the league at the corner depth elsewhere. There's a lot of teams out there with a lot of meh.

But, I'm curious about the Abdullah in the nickel sets. It doesn't speak good about our corners either

I've known boss since my first days here, he showed me the ropes around here and was cool with me when I was learning the ins ad outs of cp.

So I'll refer to him in that if he says he's ok, he's ok.

And ftr, no one wants to be like clay.

However, there were some things that happened on here that I understandably think caused boss to throw on and extra outter shell.

That said, he gave the ok, and in my experiences with him he's always been a guy that will argue with me over shit then let it be over when it's over, so as usual I'm pretty sure boss and I are cool.

We ran a lot of sets in the preseason with 2 safeties and either Abdullah or Hartman as a third "safety" in the snaps where Dunta couldn't play. I really don't think that's the design of a defense being clever. I think that's the sign of a D-coordinator who is pretty unimpressed with our CB options. Abdullah isn't even a fast FS, he's more of a SS.

It'll be made worse that we have a center fielder in Kendrick Lewis who can't make plays. I don't have a good feeling about our secondary. And I feel like our front office was a little reckless in just pitching away depth.

1) Routt was the #2 corner, not covering an opposing "primary" receiver. He was consistently targeted, though. Quarterbacks make their livings throwing at guys like Robinson and Routt.

2) do you think he would fare better against the quicker and faster guys that commonly man the slot in today's NFL? I sure don't.

I'm not basing the grade of the whole secondary on Dante Robinson. Where did you get that from?

What I DID say was that opposing passers will avoid Flowers and Smith if they can target Robinson. I said it because it's true.

Also, if they plan on moving him to safety...he is getting paid like one of the best safeties in the whole league and is essentially a push of a guy that is making less than a million dollars and another FS (Hussain) that should be starting and is also making less than a million dollars (but will be looking for a payday after this season)

Sorry, but if I can chose between Lewis at less than a million or Robinson at 5-6 million...I'm choosing Lewis and spending that money elsewhere.

Just to give you an idea of what quality of player can be had for 5-6 million per year...think Elvis Dumervil.

Hopefully, not on defense.

Dunta

He, too, has seen the light.

There is no life in the void. Only checkdowns.

Demps is a perfectly fine option as a depth safety. Not sure I agree with you there.

Dunta may not cover anyone, but at some point he's gonna knock the **** out of some poor bastard crossing the middle...

Just a head up, it's "defer". Not being a dick, just a heads up.

This is some good discussion after the Dane/SNR whatever the **** that was.

My take, I'm worried as shit about the secondary not named Flowers or Berry and it seems like we've made a lot of moves to not get better.

However I'm choosing to believe that the dumping of seemingly serviceable players is power washing the mentality of the team rather than pure talent evaluation. But that may be a little pie in the sky on my part.

Again, it bears repeating, **** Pioli. Jesus what a franchise destroyer.

I think we have plenty of options at Safety. Abdullah and Demps aren't going to set the world on fire, but they'll do a solid enough job, in my opinion. And Commings is at least a ray of hope that change can eventually come.

At CB, if our starters get injured, we don't go from solid to "solid enough." We go from solid to dumpster fire. And you're right, it feels a bit like that's because we chose the power wash mentality. That power wash mentality recklessly let Arenas loose too soon, and I can't help but wonder if it led to a bit of a fiasco with our offseason offensive tackle situation.

People have no idea just how good the Chiefs defense is going to be. An attacking style defense with pass rushers the caliber of Hali and Houston, Poe blowing up linemen, and two big physical corners?

Lol. Poor Blaine

You just don't like me because I neg repd you a couple times and called you exactly what you are.

A football stupid poster that nobody respects the takes of.

There are very few things that Clay and I see eye to eye on, but those few things are the biggest moves of the offseason.

Alex Smith (who I am not against as a player, just the compensation given up for him. I said before the trade that I would have been ok with a third rounder for him. During my camp reports, I even said that I saw things in Alex that I saw in Trent Green when I went to every camp he was here...yeah, really Clayish)

Eric Fisher (waste of resource. Only a true fans cheer a pick like that and immediately start to tear Albert down)

Dante Robinson (guy will get burnt a lot if he is allowed on the field on defense. QBs will look for matchups against him every time he steps on the field)

Chase Daniel (we paid this guy as much as Kyle Orton got as a FA. Think about that)

Other than that, I've backed about every move they have made.
I consider you in the grou of posters that I wil probably always be cool with, no matter how hot it gets in the arguments because there is a mutual respect there that will never cause a line to be crossed.

In fact, I bet we grab a bite to eat after a game or a beer before one this year.

I'll be attending at least 3 games due to friends being big time fans of teams we face this year.

Believe me, when my friends and I argue over football IRL some choice words get thrown around that wouldn't be used if there wasn't a level of understanding between us.

Some people may not understand that.

Boss, jasiansauto and I will grab a drink at some point you and O should join.

Dunta

Noted.

Huh? You just said that the secondary is only as good as it's weakest player. So if the weakest player isn't good, logically that means that the secondary isn't good either.

Seriously, how many teams in the league have a better nickel corner than Dunta Robinson? Hell, he would start on a few teams around the league.

I'll definitely be at the Browns game and will probably go to the 3 division games, too.

We are gonna have a room for before and after the Browns game, but our sons will be with us and we will probably have a somewhat early night.

The only reason we are getting the room is because we know we are gonna be drinking, I'll hit you guys up when the time gets closer.

Flowers isn't big. At all.

:D

In Danta, I see a guy a year past his usefulness that is no better than a 4th corner... or a borderline starting-quality safety.

Tell you what...

I'd be willing to bet that Robinson gives up more catches per snap than either of our starting corners if he plays a minimum or like 100 plays.

Interested?

True, but he sure does "play big"

It was pretty obvious last year that Dunta wasn't much of a corner anymore. Why the hell did Dorsey give him a big contract? Arenas was too small, but he wasn't terrible as a nickel.

I completely agree on Arenas. Not sure what happened there, but I will always think he should have been retained. I bet he went to them asking for a LTD and they balked and he awed to be traded and they obliged him.

At least that's my guess.

The only people that think Danta is still the same corner he was 3 years ago are people that didn't watch many games of Atlantas last year.

I follow them very closely because I draft for them every year in the CP mock, bet on them a lot (those SOBs ****ed me a lot last year), had a couple players of theirs on my fantasy teams and genuinely like the team they have built.

Matt Ryan covered up a lot of the messes Danta Robinson made and it's astounding that Dorsey gave him that much money.

What kind of Pass Rush does ATL have?
I seem to remember, from the little I saw, thinking that opposing QBs had an awful lot of time back there, no?
Not trying to make excuses for DUNTA, just wondering if memory serves me correctly.

28 sacks on the year. Looks like the ol memory is not too bad.

Actually, Atlanta had 29 sacks.

KC had 27.

No one is expecting Dunta of 3 years ago. He's a nickel corner now. He was a starting corner back then. He's in a role where he'll face the 3rd best WR the offense has 90% of the time instead of the best or 2nd best like he did last year.

I don't know how we'd measure that because I'm not interested in using PFF stats at all.

Yeah. No problem.

It's not like he will need to be able to cover guys like Victor Cruz, Wes Welker, Jackson, Austin, Bess and others.

He should be just fine.

Amirite?

Both Paltry #s, and both teams gave the QB WAY too much time.

That will not be the case this season.

You are putting too much stock into a scheme/coordinator change.

The players have stayed the same and even though I see the potential for an increase in sacks, it's not gonna happen overnight.

And last year as a starting corner, he had to face bigger and better WRs. So this is a downgrade for him.

Once again, you can't find more than 10 nickel backs in the league better than him.

?

Is the secondary only as good as dunta then?

I was on my phone, meant to say defer

That simply isn't true. Plenty of teams are moving their marquee receivers into the slot for favorable matchups (Calvin Johnson, Marques Colston, Boldin) for a large quantity of snaps.

These are the receivers that Robinson is going to see quite a bit in the slot this season:

Cecil Shorts, Miles Austin, Desean Jackson/Avant (unsure of how much Jackson will spend time there), Nate Washington, Victor Cruz, Welker, Reggie Wayne.

If we have him cover whoever is lined up in the slot, yes problems.

However, iirc they've been moving flowers into the slot

I believe sutton will have him in favorable matchups most of the time or matchup that he can handle

When teams move bigger WR to slot (Calvin Johnson for example) they can also play match ups on defense and move another CB to cover the slot.

People act like the defense is set in stone and cant move guys around as well.

This isn't an issue unique to KC hell look at the AFCW, how many teams have 3 above average CB's? What about 4 when teams go 4 wide?

Ladarius Webb
Cortland Finnegan
Kyle Arrington
Tyvon Branch
Leon Hall
Casey Heyward
Antrel Rolle
Buster Skrine
Brice McCain
Brandon Boykin
Greg Toler
Chris Harris


And while these players are unproven in the slot, I'd rather have them as well:
Tim Jennings, Nickell Roby, and Kenny Vaccaro.

I disagree and think he was a good signing. I bet he's the fastest CB on our roster. He is still really fast. He is fantastic against the run. He is a bump and run CB and we are clearly moving in that direction. That's why we signed Cooper and let Brown go. Switching to bump and run coverage might end up being the biggest change in our defense.

Dunta was signed to counter Denver signing Welker. When we play Denver, I bet you see Dunta lined up outside and Flowers in the slot over Welker. We then have our best match up with Welker and two big CBs to cover their taller outside guys. Robinson and Smith will make or break us against Denver.

I am not crowning the guy by any means but, he is a very good player and a good signing imo. He's no Stanford Routt.

I believe that was just during OTAs. I haven't read anything about it in TC or seen it during the preseason. It is possible that that's fluid and will change during the regular season.

Webb isn't a nickel for the ravens I thought?