Kind of with Htismaque here. Kingsley is a lab built tackle not a tweener like Wanya. He just cant get his feet and hands on the same page. He's either standing still and lunging letting guys outside or kick stepping and failing to land his hands then letting guys inside.

Take out the Raiders game and Morris had performed better than Smith did last year. He had a lower pressure rate.

Morris isn't on the injury report, but I definitely think he's been hurt. He has struggled with fast guys and has just looked pretty slow at the snap.

He wasn’t any good against Carolina either. Or the Raiders the first time.

He’s not an NFL LT. I hope he can become a guard for us next year.

Wanya and Kingsley are both 6'5, but Kingsley has 20 pounds on Morris.

Morris's weight is in his lower body. He has a much more squat base than Kingsley.

Yeah.. His ass is huge… I’d be slow footed too if I had to lug that thing around..

Yeah Morris is built like Grimace

https://nypost.com/wp-content/upload...l-89832308.jpg

Wanya’s hands are ****ing heavy too. If he can get his hands on you he’s likely winning the rep. He struggles with that on the edge.

Put him in a phone booth and that likely changes

“What’s wrong with Mahomes deep ball”

Getting hit all the time and speeding up his internal clock is what. This has happened to CJ Stroud this year.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">CJ Stroud hit this throw roughly 100% of the time last season. <a href="https://t.co/dyIAyBT2Zh">pic.twitter.com/dyIAyBT2Zh</a></p>&mdash; Adam Levitan (@adamlevitan) <a href="https://twitter.com/adamlevitan/status/1863594392545796303?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 2, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Makes me wonder if this offense was going to be much of anything even if Rashee and Hollywood didn't get injured. Pass happy offense can't operate at full potential if the QB has to get the ball out in 2 seconds or less.

I love Veach, truly, but his gamble last year on the WR room and his gamble this year at LT have both failed.

The ideal outcome is Humphries holds LT down for 2-3 years, which allows Kingsley a chance to polish up and step back in when DJ is gone

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Andy Reid said he hasn&#39;t determined yet who will start at LT this week. But he hinted D.J. Humphries, &quot;if he feels OK,&quot; will have a chance.</p>&mdash; Sam McDowell (@SamMcDowell11) <a href="https://twitter.com/SamMcDowell11/status/1863658936106143849?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 2, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I like Kingsley but he is a project player at this point.

We need to add another guy who has a chance in the draft.

What are we doing here? Stroud had all day and was late on the throw. Chalking that up to being sped up makes no sense just like when Mahomes has missed passes from clean pockets.

I dunno man, kinda torn on using more draft capital

Kinda all depends on Humphries, if he isn't a 2-3 year answer then I'm down for drafting another guy but man its such a high bust rate at that position

Thats why I'm such a fan of snapping up proven vet free agents at that position in particular... even getting someone who isn't great, but at least steady, is a win

I come down in this camp. I get why Veach tried because the value and how it lets you build a team is so great but even if we had a vet LT that gave up a couple sacks a game but allowed Mahomes to not have to scramble the moment he got the ball would be a huge win right now. With a proven vet you’re hoping for better than that but right now it’s just an open door to the QB so frequently it would be a huge upgrade.

Its a position that really just begs for a solid floor, and proven vets give you that solid floor

You don't have to be the lovechild of Willie Roaf and Orlando Pace, just be consistent and stable... no big highs, but no big lows either

I'm just hoping like hell Humphries plays as good as he looks and sounds

Man, if this works... thank God.

I'm almost inclined to sign Donovan Smith for additional insurance in week 17 or 18 for the playoff run. Throw Kingsley or Wanye on IR.

As much as everyone was frustrated with Orlando Brown, in hindsight probably should have just kept him.

This dude sure walks and talks like a duck

It might be a little rough early on as he develops chemistry/learns the playbook and plays himself back into game shape... but my hopes are high

Seems like Veach and co have, for whatever reason, decided they're out on Smith no matter what

I have heard other reports that the Chiefs were very torn between DJ and Donovan.

In the end, they decided DJ was a bit better but if DJ wasn't out there Donovan would be here now.

Yeah Smith would've been here a months ago if Veach didn't have Humphries up his sleeve

Seems like Veach knew Humphries would be cleared to play soon enough, and thats why he decided to just try and get by with Wanya until we could safely secure DJ

Link?

It's from Nate Taylor and the "Weird Games" podcast

Uhhhh....did you watch him play yesterday?

Hopefully that's true and DS is still just a phone call away.

Again - if DJ goes down, we are back to square one. I'd rather over-index on LT and sign Smith for insurance, given the alternative.

Hell, even if DJ does work out and Taylor goes down, we're ****ed that way too. Not sure if DJ or Smith are capable of playing RT?

I'd like to have two capable Tackles on the roster, and not have to rely on our LG to be our backup Tackle.

What starting left tackle in the NFL is graded worse than Wanya Morris?

PFF has him at 50.7 and that isn't even taking account the awful Raiders game yet.

The Chiefs should sign both Donovan Smith and David Bakhtiari for depth.

What has happened the past two games at LT should be a DEFCON 1 emergency.

Bakhtiari Is done. He’s like Lewan. His knee is finished.

He won’t even pass a physical at this point

I don't know, because I don't give a shit what anyone's PFF grade is. I was talking about pressure percentage and before the Raiders game Wanya had about exactly the same pressure % as Donovan Smith. Smith isn't an improvement over Morris, especially being a year older and out of football for as long as he's been.

That's the problem with trading up in the first round. Look at all the guys we've talked about in the 20-32 range of the draft the last 4 or 5 years and how many of them actually became adequate left tackles. A good portion aren't even playing tackle anymore. That's the "floor" for a draft pick.

I agree. I hope the solution is DJ Humphries. But Smith damn sure isn't.

It's been reported that the team sees it as a very close call between the two but though Humphries had a higher upside and as a younger player could be a longer-term solution.

So if Smith "damn sure isn't the solution" then it seems you might be disappointed in DJ.

From what I have read/heard, the team doesn't see a massive gap between their likely contributions this year. And should Humphries get hurt, I think they'd absolutely call Smith.

Edit: looks like this point was made already.

Donovan just did Patrick the courtesy of holding the shit out of the Defensive End to prevent Patrick from being obliterated on the field. Still ruined our drives, but a vastly preferable long term approach for our QB.

I have a hard time believing DJ and Smith are "roughly equal". Smith was not good for long stretches last year. He's now a year older and he hasn't played. Humphries HAS to be better than that

They may be worried he’ll have some growing pains getting back up to game speed.

But at this point we’re in “**** it, it’s worth the risk” territory.

Definitely agree. I think from their perspective though they might argue they know what Smith would be like, and though not great, it’s at least something they can plan around with certain expectations both in ability and for Mahomes being familiar with him.

Williams seems to be playing better at corner than nazeeh was too

Like pants said, the biggest thing Smith can do is prevent his guy from crushing Pat. Ideally it would be nice to have somebody that could do more than that, like execute a block without committing a penalty.

This guy is the last piece of the puzzle.

In DJ Humphries we trust.

Use your eyes, too.

Thuney got beat too but he didn't WHIFF. He got forced back but at least slowed the guy down from murdering Mahomes. Thuney is NOT the answer but just using an example. The amount of times Morris just completely whiffs resulting in an absolute unusable play is unfathomable.

It is just a matter of time until Mahomes goes on IR if you keep going to Morris or Kingsley.

Luckily we have Humphries in the wings.

A lt who loses slow is probably good enough.

The issue is that there never are any true quality vets available and whenever there are there is an insane bidding war that will be tough to win.

What we're probably looking at next season is potentially Cam Robinson, Alaric Jackson or Dan Moore Jr. If that screams mediocre/replacement-level to you, then that's because they are. Do they generally give you a floor? Yes, but then again they sometimes put up a 3 sack turd like Moore did against Garrett a couple weeks ago.

Humphries was better than those guys but there are question marks right now until we see him in action again.

Gawd I hope he plays this Sunday night.

He’s the last/only option, other than rolling Donovan Smith in off of his couch.

PM IIs health insurance rates dropped substantially after this signing. Could be related. LFG!

I hope Humphreys works out. But if he doesn’t, I think we’re going to have to run 2 tight end sets, and assign one of them to just blocking. Maybe one of them could beKingsley or Morris and if both playedtogether they could do what you expect a LT to do

Man, looking back, how important was Thuney’s signing for cementing our dynasty?

This offense explodes if pass protection is just a little bit better.

And goddamnit am I still pissed that Watson dropped this perfect pass. Hollywood catches it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mahomes had a couple great plays wasted against the Raiders<br><br>Nearly perfect throw to Watson -- then hangs in vs. a blitz to give Kelce a shot in the end zone, but Kelce improvs just as 15 looks to him <a href="https://t.co/AfJwc0zQ1K">pic.twitter.com/AfJwc0zQ1K</a></p>&mdash; Ron Kopp Jr. (@Ron_Kopp) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ron_Kopp/status/1863791081793417618?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 3, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Looking back at the recent history of first round drafted left tackles, you have to go back to Trent Williams, drafted in 2010, as a left tackle who ended up being elite.

Penei Sewell was quickly moved to right tackle.

Mahomes' highlight reels from the last few years would kick a lot more ass if receivers would catch the damn ball.

The plays are there and we will make them.

Again, we are whinging about a QB who threw for 300 1/0.

We are the best third down team in the league.

We will be fine. Last year our problems looked unfixable.

I’m kinda surprised he wasn’t on someone’s radar. Bahktiari was talked about at length on here and DJ was also on a recovery timeline someone usually mentions to get on our radar.

It was a nice surprise when we signed him.

Tristan Wirfs

True, although he initially played at right tackle.

Agree with this 100%.

Our problem is protection. Starting to really believe all of Mahomes issues stem from the O-Line having holes that only Pat’s Superman routine can mask/overcome. We have players open at all levels repeatedly but Mahomes is running for his life. Give the man some time and he’s going to dissect people.

Because CEH and FAU have been great?

I don't understand why people are so afraid to give up a couple of first round picks to get a stud LT, when Karlaftis is the only late 1st round pick that contributes. McDuffie is really a mid first round pick, so I am not counting him.

We didn't have a first round pick in 18, 19, or 21, and we have been in 4 of the last 5 Super Bowls and won 3 of them.

We can give up a couple of first round picks to move up and get a guy and still be Super Bowl favorites.

By that logic, why would they trade up? They'd be giving up MULTIPLE picks for another CEH or FAU.

Tunsil?

As long as we keep winning, which will be as long as Mahomes is around, we are never getting back into the top 15 of the draft.

We need all those 1st-3rd round picks to be successful. We have to draft WR/DL/OL in those slots to get the most bang for the draft buck.

Spending money in FA for a LT is really our only realistic option.

Huh?

Laremy Tunsil (2016 - Rd 1, Pk 13) - elite
Christian Darrisaw (2021 - Rd 1, Pk 23) - elite or at least very near it, health has taken him down for some time in 2023 and this year though
Tyron Smith (2011 - Rd 1, Pk 9) - once elite, health of late is an issue but that doesn't discount the first 8-9 years of his career
Rashawn Slater (2021 - Rd 1, Pk 13) - elite, missed most of his sophomore year but has been one of the best outside of that
Ronnie Stanley (2016 - Rd 1, Pk 6) - elite early on but seems like health issues are mounting, feel free to chop him off if you want
Tristan Wirfs (2020 - Rd 1, Pk 13) - elite at both RT and LT. He may have spent the first 3 years at RT but he's been even better since moving to LT. Sewell probably does the same when Decker moves on and you could throw him up here then.
Kolton Miller (2018 - Rd 1, Pk 15) - elite. He might play for a rival but he's one of the top few pass protectors at LT in the NFL.

There are a few others that aren't elite but are definitely solid plus players.

You guys want to trade up for a LT yeah? Good ****ing luck.

The Texas tackle has been a RT his entire time at Texas and the Minnesota kid is a classic project LT from a small school which we already have tried.

4 tackles in the top 14. Good luck trading up to 13

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Updated NFL Mock Draft (12/2/24) <a href="https://t.co/yDmfwXGlMg">pic.twitter.com/yDmfwXGlMg</a></p>&mdash; College Football Report (@CFBRep) <a href="https://twitter.com/CFBRep/status/1863605257969766864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 2, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Interesting.

Check out post #50

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...=354583&page=3

LMAO I love the whinging about how expensive any trade up will be. Yeah, no ****ing shit, we're seeing first hand exactly why this year. One of the best QB talents in history has regressed horribly in large part because the LT play has been so shit, and yet the solution for some of you guys is to desperately hope they sign Humphries to a long term deal before he's even played a single snap?!?

**** bringing in another broke dick veteran. **** putting all the eggs into hoping that Kingsley can develop past completely worthless. **** signing one of the mid free agents to top tier money. Get the **** up there and fix this shit once and for all.

Again, with who and for who exactly? It's much easier said than done. You don't think Veach and Reid want to not have to worry about it?

Or we could sit tight and take a TE at 31

They tried and failed this past draft. How about quit ****ing being stingy and get the deal done, even if it isn't a completely fair deal. Especially considering what usually happens when Veach fails to trade up is he ends up reaching to fit need instead of BPA.

I can't claim to have really dug through the tape on the guy.

But I also take some exception to the idea that Smith had long stretches of ass last season. He was always just...credible. Sure, had some bad games, but so will DJ.

Now might Humphries be better than what Smith could offer this year having aged another season and sat out this long? Sure. But I think you should place a reasonable baseline for Humphries at where Smith played last season. If you expect more than that from a guy who's coming off a serious knee injury and who's career was...solid...well that just seems unwise.

He's going to have to be part of a solution (along with Pacheco and the return of Brown, and hopefully additional confidence from Pat/chemistry with Worthy). But he's not going to be a panacea. At his best, he wasn't THAT good. He was really good in 2020 but otherwise he's been...solid. A Cam Robinson sort of guy who's a better pass blocker than run blocker but not ELITE pass blocker. For that matter, he's been similar to Taylor over his career.

As I said in the other thread, I think Taylor caliber play on the left side is the MOST you can reasonably ask from him.

That’s all good and well but it will have consequences. We see how much the defense regressed without Jaylen Watson.

He’s probably gone. Chenal might be too.

You’re probably looking at multiple 1sts and probably multiple 3rds tbh. Maybe more since we pick at the very end of each round and those picks aren’t seen as 1st rd value by other teams.

Also good luck talking team in the top 15 into trading down that far to not have a chance to get one of the handful of first rd graded players.

Smith was a constant baseline of below average play. Not ideal but more workable than Morris who just varied too much game to game.

Consequences like having a lower PPG currently than any Alex Smith Chiefs team? Consequences like Mahomes having by far his worst statistical season yet and regressing in most advanced metrics? Because those are the consequences of this shit tier LT play we've been subjecting him to.

Neither did I. It always seemed like he played better than Brown to me. My memory might be skewed though because Brown tended to get beat by the same bendy speed guys over and over in the same game while, I seem to remember Donovan Smith being much less susceptible to that, but much more inclined to get beat by power and bull rushes, so his pressures might've just been more spread out.

I think experience is going to go a long way to shore up some of this. Willy Roaf isnt walking through that door.... but, hopefully, an experienced vet who can stave off some of the incoming heat and give Patrick a chance.

I think the point is that even top 10 LTs have a pretty spectacular bust rate.

Trading up even into the top 10 isn't going to guarantee that you've 'fixed this shit' at all. In fact, history says you've given yourself maybe a coin-flip chance. And in the process have likely burned 2 first rounders in so doing.

Latham and Alt look like pretty damn good players, but both went top 7. Meanwhile Guyton, Fashanu and Mims have been pretty damn rough. They wouldn't have 'fixed' anything.

Paris Johnson looks good this year out of the 2023 class - he was 6th overall. Darnell Wright has been solid this year but he's a pretty pure RT -- that's why he slipped to 10. Anton Harrison has been awful and Dawand Jones even worse.

Go back to 2022 and you can find some pretty good players in there in Raimann, Ekwonu, Zach Tom, Charles Cross, Braxton Jones, Luke Goedeke and Rasheed Walker. That's a pretty fantastic OT class that saw 3 go in the top 10.

Edwonu has disappointed but is playable, likewise Evan Neal. Cross at 9 is probably the 'gem' from that group. That said, you halso have Goedeke who went in the 2nd, Raimann who went in the 3rd, Lucas who went in the 3rd, Jones who went in the 5th and Tom that went in the 6th and Walker in the 7th. Shit, we took Kinnard before Jones, Tom and Walker came off the board -- that's a scouting failure, not a draft position problem.

There were more good OTs to come out of the later rounds that year than there were in the 1st.

It just isn't as simple as "Trade up and take a guy!!"

We may really need to evaluate what it is we're looking at/for with the position. Because trading up isn't going to do us much good if the same calculus that had us valuing Kinnard over Jones is what's going to drive us. Or Bryan Cook over Lucas and Raimann.

We need to do a better job evaluating the position.

Much rather go up and take a home run swing than what they've been doing recently. They've burned two 3rds and a 2nd on bums like Niang, Morris, and Suamataia and traded the equivalent of roughly a mid 2nd for Brown Jr. If you're going to dump that much capital into the position may as well go for broke and try for a guy that can be the blindside blocker for a decade.

Chiefs aren't drafting 31

Spot on. If Humphries ends up playing well and they don't pay him, they damn well better go out and get someone even better next offseason, no matter what it takes. I have to imagine Pat has had just about enough and hopefully is relaying the same message to them.

It should be quite clear at this point that Mahomes is not going to be what he should be without a goddamn competent LT. This pussyfooting bullcrap needs to stop, get him a damn left tackle. I don't care if the value isn't there, I don't care if you have to overpay, just do it.

Two late 3rds and a late 2nd will get you into the early 2nd.

"That much capital" is nothing close to what you're suggesting giving up. You're talking about THREE TIMES as much draft capital to get into the top 10 as what we've spend on those three guys. And you seem to be hand-waiving that.

This isn't close to an apples and oranges comparison.

We won’t want to develop the LT we draft anyway. Despite how many LT’s have struggled massively out of door, fans will five up on that pick the first time he struggles just like they did Eric Fisher.