ChiefsPlanet - Chiefs Trade whatever possible for a LT prospect

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Trade whatever possible for a LT prospect (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=357091)

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17979119)

"Help the LT more" is fine, but that's less guys in the pattern.

So you're gonna be throwing into tighter windows at that point.

Bottom line is that if you can't get someone in here that's a B/B+ level pass blocker at LT, you have to fundamentally re-imagine the offense.

Andy can want to have long developing routes and is OT on an island all day - but it won't work.

You can still block with 5 and send 4+ guys into the pattern if you want, but you need to have them on quick routes and/or one-cut and go downfield concepts.

The stuff we did against Houston.

And unless they get Robinson or maybe Jackson, they should approach this entire offseason planning to do exactly that.

Robinson and/or Jackson (or I guess Stanley) can give you the sort of pass blocking you need to try to do more of the stuff they were doing with Fisher/Schwartz. But without one of those guys, you cannot assume that anyone else you're adding will.

And you can't try to adapt on the fly again like they did last year. It was obviously limited.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17979057)

Uh, he has? You realize he is tied for 4th in rings among QB’s since the merger right? And he’s not even 30…right?

You think Joe Montana didn’t have help? You think Tom Brady didn’t have help? Or Bradshaw? Or Aikman?

This is a terrible argument dude. It takes a team. And you are out of your mind if you think “help” for Mahomes is 5 LT’s, Justin Watson as WR1 in snap count and an old at the end of his days HOF TE the last 2 years.

Sure, absolutely, team game.

I'd imagine that isn't gonna happen with trading up for a LT with the holes the defense will have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17978971)

It just feels like awfully spotty roster and resource management.

I don't like to look at anything over a 1 year timeline (though I get it with Jones/Mahomes).

And over a 2-3 year timeline, hammering the DL this draft, focusing on LT in FA and then if necessary approaching the LT position in a better LT year is going to better situate us.

A concern I have with the overarching roster construction is that the 2023 and 2024 drafts may end up being little more than Rice and Worthy over a meaningful timeline. What that will do is FORCE us into the FA marketplace.

Now you can probably be fine with a 2 year period of relatively average returns on your draft and be okay. But if you have 3, you're going to start to see some frayed edges on the roster and you're going to have to be more aggressive in FA. And by its very nature, you're going to overspend doing it.

I think it's really important that we get this draft right. Not just for the players we'd add, but because 3 years of merely average returns from the draft will end up forcing us to make risker decisions in FA that may have really gnarly long-term consequences for us. Because if it's not FA where you decide to do that, it's going to be through re-stocking additional draft capital and that could end up being by trading Karlaftis (I don't see any way we trade McDuffie).

We'd start to have to weigh a fair bit of spooky shit.

I think easily the best path to 'getting this draft right' is attacking the DL -- very possibly in rounds 1 AND 2. Then maybe you see if there's a trade down at the top of 3 that can get you a little more capital in the 4th and/or through the 5th-6th rounds where we don't have anything.

Then again, maybe Hicks takes a step forward, Wiley proves a starting TE and Kingsley/Nourzad end up our starting guards going forward and everything I said is largely rendered moot.

But I'd rather let the draft come to us. The best, most sustainable teams in the league typically make their bones doing exactly that.

There IS a cost threshold on trading up for a LT but nobody is convincing me this class is considerably worse than any normal class. 2024 was abnormal for OL much like 2025 is abnormal for DL and I fear recency bias.

These are normal...

2023
#06 LT Paris Johnson Jr, Ohio State (played 2023 at RT, then 2024 at LT)
#10 RT Darnell Wright, Tennessee (2023 and 2024 at RT)
#11 LT Peter Skoronski, Northwestern (2023 and 2024 at LG)
#14 RT Broderick Jones, Georgia (2023 and 2024 at RT, plan to move to LT in 2025)
#27 LT Anton Harrison, Oklahoma (2023 and 2024 at RT)

2022:
#06 LT Ikem Ekwonu, N.C. State
#07 RT Evan Neal, Alabama
#09 LT Charles Cross, Mississippi State
#19 LT Trevor Penning, Northern Iowa
#24 LT Tyler Smith, Tulsa

2021
#07 LT Penei Sewell, Oregon
#13 LT Rashawn Slater, Northwestern
#17 RT Alex Leatherwood, Alabama
#23 LT Christian Darrisaw, Virginia Tech

2020
#04 LT Andrew Thomas, Georgia
#10 LT Jedrick Wills, Alabama
#11 OT Mekhi Becton, Louisville
#13 LT Tristan Wirfs, Iowa
#18 LT Austin Jackson, USC
#29 RT Isaiah Wilson, Georgia

This year's projections from Brugler are

#06 LT Will Campbell, LSU
#08 RT Armand Membou, Missouri
#17 LT Josh Simmons, Ohio State
#22 LT Kelvin Banks Jr, Texas
#31 LT Josh Conerly Jr, Oregon
#34 LT Donovan Jackson, Ohio State

There's some variations on where on pretty much all of those guys but it definitely has the look and feel of several of these recent drafts. It could mirror 2023 or 2020 rather closely.

If I'm projecting:

#04 NE - LT Will Campbell
#09 NYJ - RT Armand Membou
#10 CHI - LT Josh Simmons
#18 SEA - LT Kelvin Banks Jr (move him to OG, safety valve RT)
#26 LAR - LT Josh Conerly Jr
#27 BAL - LT/G Donovan Jackson, Ohio State

This is why I think a pick-flop with MIN might be on the table for Conerly. Give them 63 for 97 in a move from 31 to 24. I'm not talking about throwing a bunch of picks away and moving to 10. You still have 66, 95, and 97 that way.

That's if you can't get Alaric Jackson in FA. You probably pivot to re-signing Humphries or picking up a Jaylon Moore but you can't rely on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 17978937)

How did you interpret that?

I'd trade up for a LT prospect in round 1, not blow another 2nd or 3rd on a significant project.

I would trade up for a blue chip LT prospect if the cost wasn’t outrageous, but there aren’t any in this draft.

Veach thinking what we’re thinking fellas. We are so going DL with that first pick.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chiefs GM Brett Veach says this is a deep running back class, but adds: "In general, I think it's more of a defensive draft." Mentioned the defensive line and linebacker groups as deep.</p>— Charles Goldman (@goldmctNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/goldmctNFL/status/1894436410863530492?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 17979167)

I would trade up for a blue chip LT prospect if the cost wasn’t outrageous, but there aren’t any in this draft.

Bullshit. Campbell and Simmons are stellar. Simmons has a great chance to still go top-10 despite his injury. Campbell might get knocked if his arms are short but I don't think they are as short as being made out, could be wrong.

The cost of going up to get any "blue-chip" LT in ANY draft is going to cost a ton of draft capital though.

You have to take one with a wart or two and coach them up. Problem is I don't exactly like Heck.

Conerly and Banks are better prospects IMO than guys like Tyler Smith, Anton Harrison, and Trevor Penning were.

Conerly gets bitch slapped playing out of position at RT by a top-15 ER in a loaded class for a rep and everyone thinks he's dogshit yet he gave up 2 sacks in over 1000 snaps in the BIG10 where half this loaded DL class is coming from. Yeah ok.

So many different ways Veach can approach LT this offseason.

-Get a FA signing like Jackson or Stanley.....No early round OT drafted and I'd expect Kingsley to be our swing tackle and at some point take over at RT when Taylor is gone.

-Strike out on a stud LT in FA, Could finally move Taylor to LT and either sign a cheap RT in FA or spend our 1st on a RT while Kingsley takes over for Taylor in a year or so.

-Veach could be Veach and like he has shown in the past be super aggressive and make a crazy trade for a vet(9ers cutting cost and Silverback finally comes to KC for a couple of years?) or some other LT from Miami HA. OR puts all his chips in and trades up using multiple 1sts if needed and grabs a top 3 OT in the draft. Would it really surprise anyone if Veach went with one of these options?

My hope is we get Jackson or Stanley in FA and while OTs are kinda think in this years draft, Guard seems like a strong position and while taking a guard early might not be sexy we could be hurting for OG play in a couple of years if not planning ahead.

LT-Jackson/Stanley
LG-Thuney
OC-Creed
RG-stud rookie
RT-Taylor

Spend that #31 on the best guard on the board! Also, NO I'm not confident that Morris or Kingsley can just simply be put in at RG and perform like we need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 17979167)

I would trade up for a blue chip LT prospect if the cost wasn’t outrageous, but there aren’t any in this draft.

I think we can get Jackson/Stanley in FA for close to what Smith will be signing with another team. Then I think it will be easier to fill that RG spot with our #31 pick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17979175)

Yet he has routinely taken DTs in round 3 or later. A deep class just favors his history. I think Veach will wait until round 3 again for a DT and take a guy like Farmer or the kid from Maryland.

Now LB, I could see him snagging a guy in 2 if one falls he likes alot.

I'm more inclined to think about DE or CB in round 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 17979184)

Bullshit. Campbell and Simmons are stellar. Simmons has a great chance to still go top-10 despite his injury. Campbell might get knocked if his arms are short but I don't think they are as short as being made out, could be wrong.

The cost of going up to get any "blue-chip" LT in ANY draft is going to cost a ton of draft capital though.

You have to take one with a wart or two and coach them up. Problem is I don't exactly like Heck.

Conerly and Banks are better prospects IMO than guys like Tyler Smith, Anton Harrison, and Trevor Penning were.

Conerly gets bitch slapped playing out of position at RT by a top-15 ER in a loaded class for a rep and everyone thinks he's dogshit yet he gave up 2 sacks in over 1000 snaps in the BIG10 where half this loaded DL class is coming from. Yeah ok.

1 of the 3 vets you listed were moved to G and the other 2 are RT’s.

We need a LT. This is not helping your argument bud

Donovan Jackson wouldn't be a terrible fit but we're gonna have to sign someone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balto (Post 17979189)

I think we can get Jackson/Stanley in FA for close to what Smith will be signing with another team. Then I think it will be easier to fill that RG spot with our #31 pick.

RG really needs to be on the roster already.

Kingsley, Morris, or Nourzad should be ready for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 17979310)

Donovan Jackson wouldn't be a terrible fit but we're gonna have to sign someone.

The KCSN lab guys took him at 31 last night in their 7 round mock draft. They definitely think he can play LT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17979355)

KCSN guys took him at 31last night in their 7 round mock draft. They definitely think he can play LT.

He's kind of like a more athletic Orlando Brown, he's big, sets the base well so I feel like I can do what they expect the OT's to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 17979360)

He's kind of like a more athletic Orlando Brown, he's big, sets the base well so I feel like I can do what they expect the OT's to do.

His tape agaisnt Abdul Carter was encouraging. Small sample size, but he more than held his own against arguably the best player in the draft and easily the best pass rusher.