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-   -   Poop The "I just got back from the gym" and this is what I have eaten thread. (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=218990)

Silock 04-10-2010 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedThat (Post 6664639)
did you gradually increase the weight week to week as you went along or did you stick w/ the same weight?

Quote:

I decided to do both dropsets and supersets. Have you ever tried those?
I barely increased the weight over 2 months. And I mean BARELY. It's just not a strength training workout. The point isn't to get stronger on those lifts. It's just to fatigue the muscles as much as possible.

I've done drop sets and supersets. They just weren't necessary in this particular regimen because every rest period was so short.

Quote:

You don't do squats for mass? Do squats for mass bro! you gotta try it, or else, hate to say it but...you're missing out. You'll never find a better total body exercise to increase your overall power and strength than squats. if you improve on squat lifting you'll increase your lifts every else.
The mass-building thing is a total myth, disproven by science.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Ballantyne
Reference:
Elevations in ostensibly anabolic hormones with resistance exercise enhance neither training-induced muscle hypertrophy nor strength of the elbow flexors. Daniel W. D. West,1 Nicholas A. Burd,1 Jason E. Tang,1 Daniel R. Moore,1 Aaron W. Staples,1 Andrew M. Holwerda,1 Steven K. Baker,2 and Stuart M. Phillips1

Methods:
Twelve healthy young men (21.8 ± 1.2 yr, body mass index = 23.1 ± 0.6 kg/m2) trained their elbow flexors independently for 15 wk on separate days and under different hormonal milieu.

In one training condition, participants performed isolated arm curl exercise designed to maintain basal hormone concentrations (low hormone, LH).

In the other training condition, participants performed identical arm exercise to the LH condition followed immediately by a high volume of leg resistance exercise to elicit a large increase in endogenous hormones (high hormone, HH).

There was no elevation in serum growth hormone (GH), insulin-like growth factor (IGF-1), or testosterone after the LH protocol but significant (P < 0.001) elevations in these hormones immediately and 15 and 30 min after the HH protocol.

Results
Muscle cross-sectional area (CSA) increased by 12% in LH and 10% in HH (P < 0.001) with no difference between conditions (condition x training interaction, P = 0.25).

Similarly, type I (P < 0.01) and type II (P < 0.001) muscle fiber CSA increased with training with no effect of hormone elevation in the HH condition.

Strength increased in both arms, but the increase was not different between the LH and HH conditions.

Conclusions:
We conclude that exposure of loaded muscle to acute exercise-induced elevations in endogenous anabolic hormones enhances neither muscle hypertrophy nor strength with resistance training in young men.

****************************************
The study confirms that the slight boost in anabolic hormones from a leg exercise will have zero impact on muscle growth of other muscles in the body.

And this makes total sense if you think about it…after all, bodybuilders have to INJECT themselves with steroids in order to get a hormone boost, so why would a short 30 minute increase in testosterone have any significance?

The answer is it won’t.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19736298

Resistance exercise-induced increases in putative anabolic hormones do not enhance muscle protein synthesis or intracellular signalling in young men.
West DW, Kujbida GW, Moore DR, Atherton P, Burd NA, Padzik JP, De Lisio M, Tang JE, Parise G, Rennie MJ, Baker SK, Phillips SM.

We aimed to determine whether exercise-induced elevations in systemic concentration of testosterone, growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) enhanced post-exercise myofibrillar protein synthesis (MPS) and phosphorylation of signalling proteins important in regulating mRNA translation. Eight young men (20 +/- 1.1 years, BMI = 26 +/- 3.5 kg m(-2)) completed two exercise protocols designed to maintain basal hormone concentrations (low hormone, LH) or elicit increases in endogenous hormones (high hormone, HH). In the LH protocol, participants performed a bout of unilateral resistance exercise with the elbow flexors. The HH protocol consisted of the same elbow flexor exercise with the contralateral arm followed immediately by high-volume leg resistance exercise. Participants consumed 25 g of protein after arm exercise to maximize MPS. Muscle biopsies and blood samples were taken as appropriate. There were no changes in serum testosterone, GH or IGF-1 after the LH protocol, whereas there were marked elevations after HH (testosterone, P < 0.001; GH, P < 0.001; IGF-1, P < 0.05). Exercise stimulated a rise in MPS in the biceps brachii (rest = 0.040 +/- 0.007, LH = 0.071 +/- 0.008, HH = 0.064 +/- 0.014% h(-1); P < 0.05) with no effect of elevated hormones (P = 0.72). Phosphorylation of the 70 kDa S6 protein kinase (p70S6K) also increased post-exercise (P < 0.05) with no differences between conditions. We conclude that the transient increases in endogenous purportedly anabolic hormones do not enhance fed-state anabolic signalling or MPS following resistance exercise. Local mechanisms are likely to be of predominant importance for the post-exercise increase in MPS.

-----------------------

I realize that's a lot of sciencey-jibberish, but it basically says that there's just no truth to the myth that you must work legs to get a large growth hormone release that will spur the rest of your body to grow.

If you want big legs, work your legs to get big. If you want a big chest, work your chest to get big. And so on and so forth for every body part. They're just not connected in that sense.

Now, what you say about it possibly increasing other lifts -- I say "maybe." There's certainly an advantage to working the posterior chain and strengthening it, and that will help you in all your lifts. However, this PC strengthening is not specifically tied to squatting, deadlifting or any other exercise. There are a myriad of ways to train your PC, and it's something everyone should do.

I still do leg work, but I keep the weight heavy and the reps low to prevent large mass buildup. My legs are gigantic as it is, and I had to recently cut weight out of them (per my PT's orders), which ****ing SUCKS and I hope no one ever has to do. On page 24, I put my leg workout for this week where I did personal record numbers on the Bulgarian split squat. 225 x 5 per leg. That gives me a giant PURELY THEORETICAL combined squat total of 450. But, I know I'll never get there, because the limiting factor in squats is the lower back, and not leg strength (http://www.functionalstrengthcoach3.com/squats.html).

Hammock Parties 04-10-2010 05:26 PM

Silock destroys another n00b.

Silock 04-11-2010 12:47 AM

Meh, I used to believe all that stuff, too. I used to think you had to squat big to get bigger lifts, that you had to eat a shit load of food all the time, that your metabolism would make you store fat if you didn't eat every 2-3 hours, and that you need just a gigantic amount of protein to build muscle. But none of that stuff is backed up by scientific evidence. It's all just factoid and anecdotal stuff that got repeated so much that it became "truth." Some of that stuff might be true for bodybuilders, but they're all on drugs that we aren't on, so it isn't equivalent.

It is easy to believe because long time guys speak on it with so much authority, and people new to lifting see results (not realizing that at that point, anything they do will likely work), and just keep perpetuating the cycle. The problem is that until recently, no one really wanted to actually scientifically test these claims. Now, we are seeing them fall by the wayside, but because of the history, people don't want to believe the science. A lot of it had to do with muscle magazines and the supplement industry brainwashing people into believing that if they didn't do things a certain way, they wouldn't see gains. I cannot begrudge anyone believing it, because it sounds so convincing.

Somewhere along the line, we made fitness and strength training more complicated than it needs to be. We don't need elaborate specific body part splits, where you work the shit out of one muscle one day per week. For most people, a simple, 3 day per week full body routine works best. I would do that myself, except I just can't work my lower body like that with all the soccer and spinning I do. It may very well be that people who squat big get big, but that isn't because of the squats. Maybe they just know what it feels like to push themselves and really lift some weight, and that is why they gain more. Same goes for supplements that give "pumps." They don't actually do anything physiologically, but if they help somebody THINK they will do better, it can go a long way. Personally, I cannot buy into something if I have seen the science disprove it.
Posted via Mobile Device

LetsSignRussell 04-11-2010 01:56 AM

Preworkout/breakfast-eggs, oats, 2 % milk, 1/2 banana
Workout
Post Workout-Whey, and waxy maize mixed in skim
chicken breast, sweet potato, fish oil
shake consisting of whey, pb, oats, 1/2 banana, 2 % milk
chicken breast, brown rice, pb sandwhich (ezekiel bread)
Eggs, 2 % milk

Hows shes looking silock

Silock 04-11-2010 02:11 AM

Looks great to me. You got my PM, right?
Posted via Mobile Device

LetsSignRussell 04-11-2010 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silock (Post 6665696)
Looks great to me. You got my PM, right?
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes. I've been looking through it some but one thing I'm noticing is it doesn't have a lot of core lifts like bench press, squat, deadlifts. Lower reps = more size right? Which is what I'm going for.

ragedogg69 04-11-2010 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silock (Post 6665658)
Meh, I used to believe all that stuff, too. I used to think you had to squat big to get bigger lifts, that you had to eat a shit load of food all the time, that your metabolism would make you store fat if you didn't eat every 2-3 hours, and that you need just a gigantic amount of protein to build muscle. But none of that stuff is backed up by scientific evidence. It's all just factoid and anecdotal stuff that got repeated so much that it became "truth." Some of that stuff might be true for bodybuilders, but they're all on drugs that we aren't on, so it isn't equivalent.

It is easy to believe because long time guys speak on it with so much authority, and people new to lifting see results (not realizing that at that point, anything they do will likely work), and just keep perpetuating the cycle. The problem is that until recently, no one really wanted to actually scientifically test these claims. Now, we are seeing them fall by the wayside, but because of the history, people don't want to believe the science. A lot of it had to do with muscle magazines and the supplement industry brainwashing people into believing that if they didn't do things a certain way, they wouldn't see gains. I cannot begrudge anyone believing it, because it sounds so convincing.

Somewhere along the line, we made fitness and strength training more complicated than it needs to be. We don't need elaborate specific body part splits, where you work the shit out of one muscle one day per week. For most people, a simple, 3 day per week full body routine works best. I would do that myself, except I just can't work my lower body like that with all the soccer and spinning I do. It may very well be that people who squat big get big, but that isn't because of the squats. Maybe they just know what it feels like to push themselves and really lift some weight, and that is why they gain more. Same goes for supplements that give "pumps." They don't actually do anything physiologically, but if they help somebody THINK they will do better, it can go a long way. Personally, I cannot buy into something if I have seen the science disprove it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Great information. I believe over at the bodybuilding forums they call this bro science. lol I used to believe in all the hardcore bulking stuff, but realized all it was giving me was a gut that I would have to burn off later.

Now I am on a much easier routine.

Silock 04-11-2010 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefsplanet21 (Post 6666049)
Yes. I've been looking through it some but one thing I'm noticing is it doesn't have a lot of core lifts like bench press, squat, deadlifts. Lower reps = more size right? Which is what I'm going for.

No, low reps (3-5) = strength. Higher reps (12-15 range) = size.

Anything in between those ranges is general conditioning. I wouldn't get caught up too much in the core lifts thing. It's really just not that important for the way that particular routine is structured.

Silock 04-11-2010 03:54 PM

Time for my week off. I conveniently scheduled it so that it would coincide with my new tattoo getting a week to heal.

I think I'm going to be doing a lot of long runs outside this week, weather permitting.

Mr. Flopnuts 04-11-2010 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silock (Post 6666633)
Time for my week off. I conveniently scheduled it so that it would coincide with my new tattoo getting a week to heal.

I think I'm going to be doing a lot of long runs outside this week, weather permitting.

So your week off just means no lifting? I was under the impression you meant no anything.

Silock 04-11-2010 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts (Post 6666815)
So your week off just means no lifting? I was under the impression you meant no anything.

No lifting, nothing strenuous. When I mean a long run, I just mean a long jog. I can do 15 miles in one day, at a slow pace, and it won't really put me out. Just easy and light. I usually do absolutely nothing, but the weather is so nice and I haven't really had a chance to spend any time outside that I really just want to get out and enjoy it.

Mr. Flopnuts 04-11-2010 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silock (Post 6666822)
No lifting, nothing strenuous. When I mean a long run, I just mean a long jog. I can do 15 miles in one day, at a slow pace, and it won't really put me out. Just easy and light. I usually do absolutely nothing, but the weather is so nice and I haven't really had a chance to spend any time outside that I really just want to get out and enjoy it.

Right on. That's why you suggested long walks to me. Nothing strenuous. I'm just trying to get an idea of what I can get away with when the time comes for me to recharge the batteries.

Silock 04-11-2010 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts (Post 6666829)
Right on. That's why you suggested long walks to me. Nothing strenuous. I'm just trying to get an idea of what I can get away with when the time comes for me to recharge the batteries.

You can get away with doing nothing. Remember how long it took you to get into the shape you're in now? It takes about that long to regress back to where you were before you started exercising.

One week every 2-3 months won't impact progress in a negative way.

LetsSignRussell 04-11-2010 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silock (Post 6666595)
No, low reps (3-5) = strength. Higher reps (12-15 range) = size.

Anything in between those ranges is general conditioning. I wouldn't get caught up too much in the core lifts thing. It's really just not that important for the way that particular routine is structured.

yeah idk why I was thinking that. I just don't like the fact it doens't have a lot of core lifts. And the reps are constantly high.

Silock 04-11-2010 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefsplanet21 (Post 6666873)
yeah idk why I was thinking that. I just don't like the fact it doens't have a lot of core lifts. And the reps are constantly high.

Yup. The lifts are high, because it's a building program, not a maintenance program. Once you get to the size you want, then you switch to a different low-rep strength program. That will preserve the size and add myofibrillar hypertrophy and strength so your bite matches your bark.


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