I saw that argument with Hamas, and I'd have to say that as much I hate agree with you in any debate, I do agree with you on that.

How about playing like shit against the Jets in the 2002 playoffs!, throwing 4 picks in the 2003 AFCCG, putting up 3 points against the Patriots in 2004, playing like shit against the Steelers in 2005 and Chargers in 2007 and 2008.
Was that devastating to his team?
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The point, dumbass, is that in offense that is predicated on timing, the QB has to be able to stand in the pocket and deliver the pass at the right time.

The chance that it might lead to injury is greater, so one could argue that he's protecting the Colts chances.

However, Kurt Warner stands in the pocket and delivers in the face of pressure, which has left him playing with a lot of nicks and dings, and a couple injuries, including a thumb which had a huge affect on his performance for a couple years.

Do you not understand "in the clutch, late in games"?

Other than that shitty game against the shitty Chiefs defense when he nearly pissed away the game to a terrible Chiefs team, playing well against far inferior opponents is not surprising.

He should.

I'm talking about making plays against top tier teams with top defenses in the face of consistent pressure, late in games when he needs to lead his team to scores.

He's delivered only once.

I love this. I just pointed out all of Mannings chokes. Please match it.
Hootie. Nobody has made the stupid claim that Manning is not a great qb. You are the one has knocked Brady. You haven't made a credible case.
And you make up false stats, like Brady led the Patriots on 20 yard drives so that Vinatieri could kick 45 yard fgs. In SB 36 the drive was 53 yards in 1:21 with no timeouts. The SB 38 drive was 30 with a minute and no timeout after he had passed for over 300 yards and led them on a clutch TD drive to put them ahead before Carolina came back with a quick TD pass to Proehl.
Try not making up shit to make a moronic point.
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Super Bowl 36 proved to me how tough Kurt Warner is. The Patriots beat him up and he kept coming and coming and coming and if the Patriots don't get that last drive the Rams win in OT. Warner is a first ballot hall of famer.
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You know, I hate the whole "culture" thing that has been coming up in changing a team's fortunes in the last few years, but the fact is, as Colin Cowherd said on his show, Warner has changed the culture of two moribund franchises.

If he doesn't get into the HoF on the first ballot, there needs to be an investigation.

Yea, the last 2 years should have printed his ticket. There is no reasonable way to deny it.

Is there an undafted QB currently in the HOF?

Don't know.

Otto Graham, maybe.

Bart Starr was a 17th round selection.

I thought about that after I posted the question. It's hard to compare old school to now with all the draft rounds there used to be. Of course there were fewer teams back then so there are more players taken each round now and fewer each round back then.

Then you have the issue of there being the AFL and NFL both drafting players for 10 or so years.

I would say modern era there probably isn't an UDFA QB in the HOF.

Hootie thinks Bart Starr was just a game manager.
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What's to argue, the facts are what they are. Most everyone on here discussing them are well acquainted with each and every one of them. And all we can do with them at this point is bicker over which facts is more important than other facts.

I watched each and every moment of both player's careers in the playoffs and have made my assessment. Until NEW facts, previously unearthed and outside those observations, come to light, all we're doing is saying 'these fact prove X more definitively than thoser facts prove Y.' And all that is, is you [royal you] own personal hierarchy or the relative gravity of facts.

So much of what a QB is goes to the system they are in and the talent around them.

Look at Kurt Warner. Great, horrible, great again. Remember, he was cut in St. Louis and bombed in NY. He didn't even start an NFL game at all until he was 28 years old. And, in 2000, Trent Green had a higher passer rating with the same talent. (Green was the backup and played 7 games).

And, now, he is a 'sure' HOF'er.

Brady went from 'game manager' in the fans' eyes to elite QB, and now back to game manager.

The key is a good offense, time in the offense and comfort level in the offense, and surrounding talent.

Warren Moon

Oh yea, went to Canada first. Thanks.