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-   -   Royals Buster Posey gets destroyed, Agent Jeff Barry whines (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=245522)

Pasta Little Brioni 06-04-2011 06:22 PM

Alright, who's multing as this syrup fella?

whoman69 06-04-2011 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 7678018)
Yes, I think catchers should be fined if they block the plate with no path at all to the plate.

And you're completely wrong on Posey moving to block the plate. His entire body was in front of the plate. He has to be able to turn and make the tag. There is still a very clear path on the other side of the line to get to the plate.

But again, you're completely missing the point of my post. I have never said get rid of collisions. I said that hits to the catcher should be enforced the same way they are in the NFL to a defenseless receiver. By rule, there's nothing illegal about a player just dropkicking a catcher if he wanted to. There has to be boundaries.

I've gone back and looked at the tape multiple times. Just before the runner got there Posey struck his left leg out to block the plate. He was also in the process of moving his body to block as well but the ball popped out which is why he stopped.

You're totally wrong about a player dropkicking a catcher. He'd be called out, thrown out of the game and ready to receive a big fine and suspension from Bud Selig.

BIG_DADDY 06-04-2011 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz (Post 7678074)
Last Posey: "We all need to move on, so it isn't necessary to have a conversation with him at this point." 35 minutes ago via web

Posey:"I appreciate that he made the effort to reach out to me on the night of the play.. I was in no physical condition to talk to anyone." 35 minutes ago via web

Posey statement: "In no way do I condone threats of any kind against Scott Cousins or his family." 36 minutes ago via web

via http://twitter.com/TBrownYahoo

Posey moving on:
http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/n...ews_sf&c_id=sf

Giants organization came out saying Sabeans remarks were out of emotion and frustration and the organization and Brian reached out to counsins:

http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/n...ews_sf&c_id=sf

I am a Giants fan and don't know another that thinks the rules should be changed. If Brians comments could be seen as a bloody vaginal discharge this threads response to his comments should be seen as a bloody vaginal river. Everyone has moved except some of you in this thread. Maybe you guys should keep whining about it for a another week or two.

BIG_DADDY 06-04-2011 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69 (Post 7678363)
I've gone back and looked at the tape multiple times. Just before the runner got there Posey struck his left leg out to block the plate. He was also in the process of moving his body to block as well but the ball popped out which is why he stopped.

You're totally wrong about a player dropkicking a catcher. He'd be called out, thrown out of the game and ready to receive a big fine and suspension from Bud Selig.

Calling that blocking the plate is utterly ridiculous. That being said the decision to hit instead of slide to an open plate was made in a millisecond. It is what it is. The last people I want to put in charge of deciding games based upon millisecond moral decisions are MLB umpires. THey can't even keep a standard strike zone for god's sake how are they going to decide on something like that? Each one will have their own moral standard and want to put their own personal stamp on the game like anyone gives a flying **** about those guys. Keep it like it is.

pr_capone 06-04-2011 08:50 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6625504

Johnny Bench puts Buster Posey at fault

Quote:

Hall of Famer Johnny Bench says Buster Posey's season-ending injury was the result of a mistake on the Giants catcher's part.

Bench, who knows all too well the physical toll of playing catcher in the major leagues, says preventing collisions at the plate is a major key to the success of any catcher.

"Buster was a finalist for the Johnny Bench Award (as the top collegiate catcher in 2008) and is a great kid -- I called him after the World Series last year," Bench told the Tulsa World this week. "When I heard about the injury, I was anxious to see how this happened. Buster put himself in such a bad position."

Posey, last year's NL rookie of the year, was knocked out for the season on a play at the plate with Marlins outfielder Scott Cousins last week, a sequence that resulted in widespread, vexing rhetoric -- and apologies from both sides.

It also sparked debate on whether a change to baseball's baserunning rules could help avert injuries like Posey's.

Umpire Joe West, the president of the World Umpires Association who was feet away from the impact that sidelined Posey, assures it's only part of the game -- "just as much as apple pie."

"You ask me if I'm upset that a good, young player got hurt. Yeah. Is it unfortunate? Yeah. Is it part of the game? Yeah," West said, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

"I can't tell you I would change anything, It's one of those things that's part of baseball, just as much as apple pie. You can't change the rules because it's been that way forever."

West said a key part of the play had been missed in the aftermath.

"What they're failing to look at is that (Posey) dropped the ball before the guy got there," West said. "That's why he was in a vulnerable position. That's why he was trying to find the ball. If he had caught the ball, he could have got his hands up and he could have defended himself. He could have absorbed the blow with both arms and his glove.

"It's like a receiver going over the middle in football. If he bobbles the ball a couple of times, the linebacker is going to kill him."

Bench, a spring training instructor for the Reds, was playing in his third All-Star Game in 1970 when Cincinnati teammate Pete Rose barrelled over Ray Fosse at the plate for the game-winning run in the bottom of the 12th inning.

Fosse, a rookie catcher for the Cleveland Indians, was seriously injured on the play, his promising career permanently scarred.

Cousins' run also came in the 12th inning to send the Marlins past the Giants 7-6.

"First of all, my catchers don't sit in front of home plate. They stand away from home plate and work back to the plate," Bench told the Tulsa newspaper. "But we (catchers) are just fair game. You've got a guy running around third base at 210 to 220 pounds with 3 percent body fat and with sprinter's speed."

Cousins, a rookie, has been receiving death threats despite repeatedly apologizing for the May 25 collision that left Posey with a broken bone in his lower left leg and three torn ligaments in his ankle. He's had surgery and is done for the season.

"I teach my kids to stay away from the plate when you don't have the ball so the runner actually sees home plate and his thought is, slide," said Bench, who has undergone hip replacements on both legs in the past seven years after a 17-year career that ended in 1983. "But Buster is laying in front of home plate, and it's like having a disabled car in the middle of a four-lane highway. You're just going to get smacked."

Posey has said he felt Cousins could have slid around him but also said it was a legal play.

"Show them the plate," Bench said. "You can always catch the ball and step, or step and catch the ball, as long as you've got the runner on the ground. And if you have the runner on the ground, there's less chance of any severe collision."

In a statement released Saturday by the Giants, Posey sought to distance himself from the reported death threats.

"I appreciate the continued support of Giants fans and others as I begin the process of working my way back," Posey said in the release. "But in no way do I condone threats of any kind against Scott Cousins or his family.

"As I said last week, I'm not out to vilify Scott," the statement reads. "I appreciate that he made the effort to reach out to me on the night of the play, but I was in no physical condition to talk to anyone. I have not been back with the team since that night, so I haven't even been aware of any other messages he's left for me. We all need to move on, so it isn't necessary to have a conversation with him at this point."

Giants general manager Brian Sabean had criticized Cousins on his weekly radio show, calling the play malicious and unnecessary. Sabean also said "if I never hear from Cousins again, or he doesn't play another day in the big leagues, I think we'll all be happy."

Sabean's comments got the attention of Major League Baseball, and executive vice president of baseball operations Joe Torre spoke with Sabean on Friday. The Giants also issued a statement saying Sabean's comments were made out of frustration, and the GM was trying to reach Cousins.

"We intend to move beyond conversations about last week's incident and focus our attention on Buster's full recovery and on defending our World Series title," the team said in the statement.

Cousins also issued a statement Friday and apologized again for the collision.

Florida manager Edwin Rodriguez said before Friday's game against the Milwaukee Brewers that he doesn't have to defend his young outfielder because Cousins didn't do anything wrong.

"As a team we don't have anything to say," Rodriguez said. "If people want to keep talking about that, let them talk."

chiefzilla1501 06-04-2011 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr_capone (Post 7678468)
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6625504

Johnny Bench puts Buster Posey at fault

He's not putting Buster Posey at fault. He's saying that the way he played the ball made him more vulnerable to getting hit. Like I said, I have no problem with Posey getting hit. But I have yet to hear a good reason for why a player should be allowed to cut into the pitcher's side of the foul line and should be allowed to launch his shoulder into a catcher like a battering ram.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=15201655

The answer: "it's always been done that way" isn't good enough. Just because it's always done that way, doesn't make it right.

whoman69 06-05-2011 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 7678484)
He's not putting Buster Posey at fault. He's saying that the way he played the ball made him more vulnerable to getting hit. Like I said, I have no problem with Posey getting hit. But I have yet to hear a good reason for why a player should be allowed to cut into the pitcher's side of the foul line and should be allowed to launch his shoulder into a catcher like a battering ram.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=15201655

The answer: "it's always been done that way" isn't good enough. Just because it's always done that way, doesn't make it right.

If the catcher can block the plate, then he has to take the consequences. If Posey had caught the ball, finished his motion of blocking the plate and Cousins was out sliding, the controversy wouldn't have been as much, but everyone would have said Cousins was stupid.

chiefzilla1501 06-05-2011 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69 (Post 7678865)
If the catcher can block the plate, then he has to take the consequences. If Posey had caught the ball, finished his motion of blocking the plate and Cousins was out sliding, the controversy wouldn't have been as much, but everyone would have said Cousins was stupid.

That still doesn't justify why Cousins should be allowed to cut into the pitcher's side of the foul line. And again, there is no justification for a runner launching into the catcher using his shoulder as a battering ram.

I am not saying Cousins should slide. I'm saying 1) he should be asked to run on the outside of the basepath and 2) his shoulders should be required to be parallel to the ground. You can still knock the shit out of a catcher that way, but it takes away the ability to launch at a catcher like a missile. To point 1... it's illegal to run inside the base path to first, why is it legal going home? To point 2... let's assume Posey ducked out of the way when he saw Cousins launched into him. Cousins would miss home plate entirely and tumble on his shoulder. Why? Because he was aiming for a knockout instead of at least making an attempt for the plate. If you watch Pete Rose's collision with Fosse, you'll see that he knocks the shit out of him but his shoulders are parallel to the ground and he's aiming for home plate. I have absolutely no problem with hits like that.

whoman69 06-05-2011 01:39 PM

Its not illegal to run inside the basepaths on the way to first unless it interferes with the throw. Cousins made an attempt to touch the base coming in and in fact touched the plate but retouched it to make sure. You could make that claim on any collision at the plate, that if the catcher does an el toro the runner will miss the plate. The play at the plate has always been different because the catcher with their equipment will try to block the plate. The only real way to stop collisions is to outlaw catchers blocking the plate.

chiefzilla1501 06-05-2011 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69 (Post 7679032)
Its not illegal to run inside the basepaths on the way to first unless it interferes with the throw. Cousins made an attempt to touch the base coming in and in fact touched the plate but retouched it to make sure. You could make that claim on any collision at the plate, that if the catcher does an el toro the runner will miss the plate. The play at the plate has always been different because the catcher with their equipment will try to block the plate. The only real way to stop collisions is to outlaw catchers blocking the plate.

If you are inside the basepaths a few steps away from first base, you will more than likely end up interfering with the throw.

No, I cannot make the claim that if a catcher does an el toro, the runner will usually miss the plate. If you are sliding or running with your shoulders parallel to the ground, you will make progress toward the plate. Cousins hit Posey with his shoulders facing the ground. Much the same way you would ram a door open with your shoulders. Try an experiment out: dive forward with your arms forward. Now dive forward as if you're ramming a door open. You tell me if the latter makes any kind of sense if you're trying to reach safely into a base.

In other words, if you're going to knock a catcher out, I would rather you form tackle him than go for a kill shot. At least with a form tackle, you're making a reasonable attempt at getting to the base.


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