{facepalm}

Do you not realize how hypocritical this is? Mike Moustakas got hit by a strike earlier this year and the dugout started barking.

The Royals take HBPs (and takeout slides) more personally than any team in baseball and any team I've seen since Dusty Baker allowed Kenny Lofton's bullshit to infect his clubhouse in Chicago. Every bit of contact with a Royal, be it in the batters box or on the bases, was clearly with a malevolent motive and has to be met with mean mugs, shouting and emptying onto the field.

Sometimes when you're positive that everyone in the world is an asshole, it's probably worth considering the possibility that they aren't the asshole.

You're right - sometimes guys get hit and often times the hitter contributes to his own HBP. That's something that you would be well served to remember the next time one of your guys leans into one and Eric Hosmer starts flailing about in the dugout.

Yeah we took it soooo personal that we have retaliated all of 2 times...

Once for taking out Esky
Once with Donaldson

But we are near the top of the league in HBP....

nice try

That's right - you're all just choir boys. I mean Cain barking at the mound after getting hit by a slider, Herrera getting suspended for whatever the hell bit of idiocy he had was, Ventura's constant staring, you guys have emptied the dugout what, 5 or 6 times already this season? On and on and on it goes - the Royals are constantly yapping about how they've been slighted.

The Royals take this shit personally. You're welcome to argue that it's with just cause, but you can't honestly sit there and say that these guys don't constantly have a chip on their shoulder about this crap. They do.

A Royals fan telling anybody to just brush it off is the height of hypocricy. Royals fans have been convinced that MLB is out to get them all friggen year (and you're pretty much the worst of them).

OMG!!! Not STARING!!!! That's it....Pitchers have to wear blinders from now on!

Yes, focus on the degree of indignation instead of the pattern of shit stirring that's come from your team this year, a pattern noted by every national media type that's taken time to speak to it.

This is the shit the Royals have been involved in ALL SEASON but I'm sure you're right Pete - the rest of MLB is just out to get you. It's Royal red ass that's causing this nonsense to occur at all.

How many times have we emptied the dugouts again?

Royals are thugs derp

How many times have royals been hit?
How many times have they hit someone?

Why did Donaldson throw a fit yesterday?

Royals success, upping Royals thread participation from new fans and Cards fans alike.

Donaldson was as pissed at the umpire as he was anyone else - he got hit (clearly intentionally) and then after warnings were issued a teammate got hit again and he got buzzed twice with no response from the ump. That's going to frustrate the guy.

Royals fans at the beginning of the year (and you just now) use cumulative HBP figures as justification for your ire and yet you ignore the fact that in game Donaldson had been beaned and then buzzed twice. That's going to piss you off - period. You can't very well say "well Gordo got hit 3 times last month so he's right to be angry" and then ignore Donaldson's frustration.

I understand why Donaldson would be pissed just as I understand why the Royals would be nonplussed. It's just friggen absurd that Royals fans that have been crying all season about being targeted are now going to tell anybody to brush it off.

The Royals and their fans damn sure haven't shown a willingness to do so.

:LOL:

Lots of bitching from non-Royals fans.

I guess success really does breed contempt . . .

The blue Jays and royals didn't play each other yesterday...

Mostly some of the board Cardinals fans. They seem to pop up out of nowhere and start shit on their high horse. Their baseball team means a lot to them and we're all dumb asses.

Well, in all fairness, they are 'the best fans in baseball' . . . . .:p

He might have been pissed about the ump letting him get "buzzed," but it's not realistic to expect an umpire to eject a guy for throwing a changeup that rides up and in (because that clearly is a mistake pitch that got away).

And the Madson pitch, it's about the situation. Two on, two strike count, no pitcher is trying to hit ANYBODY on purpose in that situation. It makes no baseball sense in a two-run game.

Neither of those pitches makes sense as an intentional HBP. Just like the 7th pitch of the AB to Tulo doesn't make sense as an intentional HBP.

That's why the Royals weren't run.

Sanchez throwing a pitch inside and missing Escobar and following that up with a second pitch that ran to the middle of the batters box, even further in? Apparently Wolf saw intent there, likely from whatever he heard or saw Sanchez say/do as he walked towards him.

Okay, mighty Cardinals fan, maybe you can explain why Madson would hit Donaldson to load the bases in a two run game. Nobody else has been able to give a good explanation. Why? Because you're all trying to be drama queens, just like Donaldson.
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So, we had a few incidents early in the season and then nothing until this past Sunday.


ALL SEASON!!!!!!!11111111ONEONE


Right... :rolleyes:

This is the most Cardinals thing ever. Best fans in baseball! Coming in here making all kinds of generalizations that are completely out of context and acting like they're above it all, when their team is just as likely as anyone to retaliate against someone. What a load of crap.

It's funny to see the Royals' actions offending so many people, especially Cardinals fans even who have had nothing to do with anything we've done this year. Sorry we are such a big issue in all of your lives.

Edit: actually, no I'm not sorry at all.

Let's remember though - that's the point of a changeup. When Donaldson spun out of the box and looked at Escobar, he didn't know it was a changeup - it's disguised as a fastball; that's the point. And he didn't charge the guy, he spun out angry and pretty quickly recovered. A bat flip? Christ, you're calling out a dude for flipping his bat? He was still pissed and he still wouldn't have known it was a changeup. Again, right in that moment, he things Volquez buzzed the tower.

No it does not, but it didn't make sense for Cain to get hit by a slider in the early innings of a tie game but Cain and his teammates lost their shit and Royals fans were right there ready to back him. And again, from Donaldson's perspective, he's standing in the on deck circle when the new face of the franchise got hit in the hand; the kind of thing that can end a season. Of course he's going to be riled up especially with the backdrop of his last AB. Then when he gets another ball by his chin he turned and barked at the umpire. WTF is the problem with that?

Intentional or not - run or not - Royals fans lose their mind after their guy gets hit every time and yet they don't extend that same thought to Donaldson who had pretty much had his fill of that shit on that day - and you would to.

Like I said at the very beginning - I can absolutely see why the Royals would be nonplussed; from there perspective nothing untoward happened. My issue is with the idea that Donaldson was completely unjustified in his frustration - oh bullshit. That said - let's also be very clear here - 'nonplussed' isn't exactly what happened there either. Volquez spent the whole day looking for a fight (both times walking towards the batter after the HBP and then the walk) and the Royals had their whole team out of that dugout before anything actually started...evidently just in case. Volquez did a lot to incite that crap and as soon as guy were on the field, he and Cain were looking to elevate things....again.

It's the double standard that is laughable here.

I was wondering when DJ's ass would show up and make an ass like Hamas did.

There's no double standard. They hit Moose the day before and knocked him out of Sunday's game. The Cardinals would've done the same thing. In hindsight the stealing signs issue might have taken it over the top, but a lot of teams would've done it just because one of their own got taken out.

Bat flipping and barking at the up are OK, but mean mugging is out of line.

BFIB just can't help themselves.

It was over stealing signs Friday night against Cueto and they had Volquez take care of it instead of Ventura. Donaldson being a little bitch set it off even more.

I'm just talking about the situation and the umpire's actions. Anyone looking back in hindsight and calling shenanigans on Wolf is being silly.

I don't have a problem with Donaldson being fired up and looking at the umpire or even complaining. I do think he went too far with the show he put on (walking to the backstop, continuing to jaw at the ump, etc). He's lucky he didn't get run for that (and Wolf, to his credit, gave him some significant rope, likely because of the situation and Wolf's awareness).

What slider are you referring to with Cain? The Kazmir pitch (because that wasn't a slider).

The Royals have a rep at this point. Things had been quiet for a few months, prior to this series, so I think they've settled down a little bit, but it's still a factor and still something the team needs to be careful about moving forward. Can't let it become a negative factor in the team's performance.

Wrong

ALL SEASON!!

/tardfan

But if Mike Moustakas getting hit on accident is grounds for drilling Donaldson the next day and the Jays should've just understood and been okay with that, what are the Royals doing leaving the dugout when Sanchez hits Escobar after Tulowitzki gets hit?

There's absolutely a double standard here. When your guys hit one of theirs, intent is what controls. When their guys hit one of yours, well to hell with intent, one of our guys got it. When Ventura catches a comeback and starts yelling at the baserunner as he goes down the line, it's just being a firey kid. When Donaldson flips his bat, he's a drama queen.

And yet the team most frequently in the middle of these affairs is the Royals. I'm sure it's everyone else's fault.

Royals fans just can't pass on a good ad hominem when their bullshit arguments fall apart.

Keep on telling yourselves that your choir boys are just innocent bystanders. It isn't just Cardinals fans that aren't buying that nonsense.

Sports fans have double standards and will defend their team right or wrong???

Holy shit, I think you're really onto something here.

I've made no such arguments. I understand how sports fandom works.

Thanks for the heads up BFIB! You're straightening everyone out in here. We really appreciate it!

If you want to scare them off, bring up their (and their leagues) terrible struggle vs the AL. They'll scurry like wharf rats the second they hear it.

That's old hat. Everyone knows the JV will struggle against the Varsity.

I wouldn't have had an issue at all with Wolf tossing Donaldson - that doesn't have a damn thing to do with yet another incident of the Royals leaving the dugout and being red asses. They used Donaldson's histrionics to deflect attention and excuse themselves on twitter afterward but then when Ventura goes off calling a 6-time All Star and legitimate stud like Bautista a 'nobody', their justifications start to ring a little hollow, do they not?

Call it youth or swagger or whatever, but it can't be ignored. Royals fans call it an edge, most others....do not. And for Royals fans to have embraced that black hat role then turn around and tell someone like Donaldson who had legitimate reasons to be pissed to just nut it up and walk to first is absolutely hypocritical.

The Royals have been hit by pitches 57 times this season. That's second in MLB. Our pitchers have hit 29 batters. That's 23rd.

Toronto has been hit by 31 pitches. That's 14th in MLB. They've hit 44 hitters. That's 3rd in MLB.

In the series four Royals and three Blue Jays were hit by pitches. Please keep these facts in mind as you invent reasons why the Royals are a bunch of thugs and whatnot.

Ventura's caught a lot of shit, and deservedly so, from Royals fans over his behavior.

Yeah, that's definitely a card a team with a 2-4 record against the Cards should play...

But just watch how they squeal when you slap them with the data. They shit out, completely lose their minds.

You keep coming back to Ventura as your best example of the Royals being "red asses". I have seen very little defense of Ventura. Most Royals fans wanted him to be sent down to AAA. Sure there's some "he's a kid" talk, but even that is usually in the context of how he needs to grow up and figure it out.

Ventura aside, this team started the year getting hit a LOT and were getting little support from the umps. They were smeared in the media for dust ups with the A's and the White Sox in which they were in no way the instigators. Of course they're a little indignant about teams throwing at them. I still haven't seen any Royal make as big an ass out of himself as Donaldson did on Sunday.

I wish I could understand the intricacies of NL baseball - I really do. It seems so advanced. Alas, I am a Royals fan, so I can only hope one of the BFIB will help me out here. They're always so, so very helpful.

They were absolutely the instigators in the A's and Sox drama but it's just not worth hashing that out again. At some point I'll have to convince you all that Lawrie wasn't doing a flying jumpkick when his cleat hit Escobar mid-calf but whatever.

Cain has been in the middle of plenty of temper tantrums this year. And really, gonna just forget about Herrera's garbage in the 'make an ass of himself' derby? Or are you gonna justify that one as well? Probably the latter.

Again - just brick after brick after brick. Any singular incident in a vacuum isn't much but the Royals are in the middle of more of them than any team in baseball.

God I'm glad you're on their side.

11-6 on the year vs. the JV league.

Actually I thought Ventura needed to chill out. Heck most of his teammates did too. That's a weak argument.

People don't like that the Royals aren't a doormat anymore. That's the long and short of it.

You are the hypocrite with a double standard. I could get into a laundry list of examples of your NL central squabbles. I don't think the Royals have been a bunch of choir boys, but they're standing up for themselves like most good teams do. I don't have a problem with it. I don't have a problem with them getting back at Samardzija, getting back at Lawrie for his dirty side, or for getting the Blue Jays for stealing signs and knocking one of our guys out with a HBP.

They don't have to just sit there and take crap from everyone else. It's not a coincidence that almost every issue this year has ties to the A's. They don't have to stand there and take it and let everyone beat up on them. No matter how much holier than thou crap you try to pour on it. You're just being a hypocrite, because your team would do the same thing in a second.
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And? Cards with a winning record against the 'Varsity' and a .667 against the big dog of the lot.

Just thought since PB threw out league records - you'd actually like to see, ya know, league records.

Thanks for filling me in on the series details. Much appreciated.

:facepalm: I mean there's an argument with the White Sox series, but this? Holy shit.

Not justifying. It was stupid. It was also essentially one gesture as opposed to a multi act performance.

Man you are showing your ass in this thread. White Sox drama started opening day when Samardzija plunked Cain. Lawrie hard slide, he took one and it was pretty much over until Kazmir plunked a batter and it was on once again.

We're just homers for thinking that was a dirty slide. Brett Lawrie is a saint.

I'm still waiting for you to explain how this has been going on ALL SEASON, when besides the Angels, A's and Sox in April and then Sunday against the Jays, I can't recall any incidents. Please enlighten me.

Ventura going at Bautista was a response to two things: Bautista calling out Ned Yost (who for all his shortcomings, is loved by his players) and Bautista being the center of the Royals' sign-stealing complaints (which is an issue that has followed him around for a long time, too).

Ventura is a red-ass who needs to mature. Just don't act like he started that whole Twitter exchange out of nowhere.

Lawrie's slide was late, dirty, and unnecessary. You won't convince anyone here of anything different. And you won't convince those of us who played baseball at advanced levels that slide and the placement of his foot was necessary. It wasn't.

Cain has been drilled a lot. He doesn't like that, and he - like most players - looks at the pitcher and might say something to him as he walks to first. What are you talking about regarding temper tantrums, though? Cain hasn't done anything that even closely resembles a temper tantrum (he's never even done anything close to what Donaldson did on Sunday).

The whole thing with the White Sox never goes ANYWHERE if Jeff Samardzija doesn't bull rush his way through everybody trying get to Cain.

The benches might not even empty if Samardzija isn't yelling shit from the dugout at Christian Colon of all ****ing people the previous inning (after Colon lined out and was waiting for someone to bring him his glove).

Yeah, that was ALL the Royals.

ROFL

He read an ESPN article where someone was very concerned about the Royals thuggish demeanor and that was all he needed to see.

Have you SEEN any of these games you're referring to or just read about them on message boards?

It's like the 2015 version of The Sandlot up in h'ya.


"It's [I]you"[/]!!!!

"No, no... It's [I]you[I/]!!!!

Royals 11-6 +27 runs
BFIB 11-9 -1 runs


They do owe Dusty Coleman a gift card to somewhere for keeping them from being 10-10. We would shatter that shitty League.

I saw some highlights where the Reds and Pirates got into it. Clearly the Pirates are thugs and instigators and need to be stopped. They've been doing this all year and it's disgraceful and disrespects the game.

Source = ESPN

It absolutely is. It's like being TBFIBB TM gives the mother****ers amnesia.

I remember whitey crying about the metrodome and that Twins turned on the big fans that helped the ball fly out of that dump. That they piped in noise there.

The crying over Penitentiary Face Leonard when he went "one flap down" on his HR's in the NLCS.

Tom Lawless (he's a legend) watching his 4th inning HR go out of the park from the plate, then flipping the bat 25 feet in the air and by the time he crossed the plate, it was almost Christmas. He hit 2 career HR's.

Eat shit, Cards fans.

Guys get hit. Holliday got hit, Lackey drilled a Kipnis (I think) and everyone went on their merry way. The Royals, OTOH, made a huge show of it with Hosmer and Moustakas leading the charge from the dugout.

As to the A's, really? It was pretty much over? C'mon, your guys were all over Oakland that day and the next. And to call Cain's HBP a 'plunking' is just silly. Kazmir didn't hit him on purpose - if anyone was going to target Cain it would've been the night before when they had a 5 run lead and Cain led off the 9th - that's a textbook 'flip' sign moment. But again, everything has malevolent intent when the Royals are involved, right? Beyond that, if Kazmir wanted to hit him, he'd have just put it in his back like everyone does and if the A's were giving instructions to hit him, it wouldn't have been in the rubber game of that series tied 0-0. Instead the fact that Cain got hit low is some kind of proof that Kazmir is even MORE evil and was going after some surgical soft spot for Cain. Gimme a break.

Like I said - it's always the other guy when the Royals are involved, right?

They prefer the taste of semen, but I'm sure a shit buffet every now and then isn't above them.

Cardinals fans want to ban me from their thread ... But they can come in here whenever they want and tell us how much baseball knowledge we lack

****ing awful fan base those ****s are

DJ embarrassed the **** out of himself in this thread. Good Lord. He clearly didn't watch any of those April squabbles and he's trying to put it on Cain having temper tantrums?

Omg go away you ****ing idiot. Embarrassing. Josh Donaldson level of embarrassment

Whether Kazmir tried to hit Cain intentionally or not, the team had hit a tipping point with guys getting plunked. Kind of like Donaldson on Sunday, even though it didn't make sense for it to be intentional, the "in the moment feel" was different.

It might have stayed a dead issue if Kazmir doesn't miss his spot by two feet (then go on to show pinpoint control the rest of the day).

When I don't follow games/teams closely, I always try to make very pointed arguments about them.

That's why you're one of the best fans in...

I won't do that to you.

In terms of "problems" with the Royals, these are almost all connected with Ventura. Guy needs to chill the **** out a little bit. Everything else is pretty much a non-issue.

I didn't realize how dumb Cardinals fans are these days. The one announcer (maybe Joe Buck) is always talking about how good they are, I didn't know that he didn't know what he was talking about.

It was still batshit and a sign that the guy is as much of a loose cannon as he's ever been.

I don't expect I'll convince any of you otherwise - I still don't buy it. Wong got clipped on a play just like that a couple of weeks ago; nothing came of it. That slide happens as bad or worse every week. Sandoval's was just as bad the day before (against the Orioles I believe) and nobody batted an eye. Escobar got hit in the top of the calf with a heel - it's not like he was Ty Cobb kicking him in the hip and yet that's how it's not characterized. As for unnecesssary - no dice; Lawrie had no way to know that the throw wasn't going across. You've seen the kind of body control middle infielders have - he could easily have slung that over from where he was and Lawrie wasn't going to let him do it. That's just baseball. Had Escobar simply walked away, nothing comes of it. Instead he lays on the ground like his leg is broken...then starts the next day. Drama queens indeed. That was a baseball play that was no more dirty or unnecessary than any number of baserunners that will all but slide in sideways to take out a potential DP.

Sorry but this gets back to my gripe with Lofton - every time that guy got hit he had something to say to the pitcher and Cain's the same in that regard. Quibble with the terminology if you will, but Cain's thin skinned. Again I'll reference Wong - that dude has been hit 13 times this season and he doesn't feel compelled to chatter at the P every time it happens. Jon Jay got hit 20 times last year and his response was the same every time; flips bat and goes. That's the normal reaction. Your position that most hitters are talking to the pitcher as they go up the line just isn't true. Most don't. Some do.

And Samardzija probably isn't yelling shit from the dugout if Hosmer and Moustakas aren't yelling at him from the dugout after the Cain HBP in the season opener. The bad blood there started from opening day and as near as I can tell was just carryover from the Royals still really hating that guy from his Oakland days. You want to tell someone to let it go...that's probably where I'd start. And of course Volquez and Herrera are in the middle of that one as well.

Nobody's ever wholly to blame in these things, but again, at some point you have to acknowledge that the Royals are disproportionately featured in them. Royals fans can claim all they want that it's because teams don't like that they're not bad anymore but gimme a break - the plucky upstart thing works in your own locker room but it's not like Samardzija and Lawrie were thinking fondly back on the good ol' days when the Royals lost games and were livid at the Royals newfound success.

LMAO the Royals hate carrying over from beating the A's in dramatic fashion on their way to the WS.

Still waiting for more examples of the shit the Royals have been involved in ALL SEASON.

You either have me on ignore, or realize that I busted you talking out your ass and are too embarrassed to own it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Blue Jays reliever Aaron Sanchez was suspended three games for throwing at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash">#Royals</a> Alcides Escobar on Sunday.</p>&mdash; Josh Vernier (@JoshVernier610) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoshVernier610/status/628643013074366464">August 4, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Toronto manager John Gibbons was also suspended, for one game, for coming back on to the field.</p>&mdash; Josh Vernier (@JoshVernier610) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoshVernier610/status/628643374900187136">August 4, 2015</a></blockquote>
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No Royals suspended. LMAO
YEAH TOTALLY IN THE WRONG

So Brett Lawrie was totally vindicated when he wasn't suspended as well, right?

CLEAN SLIDE!!

Honestly, I had no problem with the slide. It was awkward, but I really didn't find it to be "dirty"

I'm sorry, but 3 games for that? That's ****ing BS. I mean, I don't give a **** about the Blue Jays, but that's ridiculous.

I love it when DJ and Hamas come into these threads and argue with people who actually watch Royals games.

JFC

It's pathetic. It really is. You ****ing idiots didn't watch the game, you have no ****ing clue what you're talking about, so STFU

Is it that hard? Who in their right name is going to argue with Duncan or tk13 (the guy who is purposely rational at all times) about something that happened WHEN THEY DIDN'T EVEN WATCH THE ****ING GAME OR THE SERIES.

Ventura got suspended because of the White Sox game for what, 7 games? And he never hit anyone at all.

Agreed. I don't get the MLB suspension rules at all. It's all pretty ****ed up to me