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Pro Bowl LT DJ Humphries [signed by Chiefs]
(https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=356044)
How bad is DJ's injury? Or are we just waiting for him to get into football shape and to learn the playbook?
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You're gonna just have to survive on mid level LT's, Vets, developmental guys.
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The issue is everyone wants elite.
How about "don't suck and get immediately beat off the snap" and work back from there? |
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How many elite LT’s are there in the league this year? Are there more than 5? It’s really really bad. I’d argue it’s a crisis worse than QB at the moment |
Well...yeah. It's basically the same with every position.
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Someone mentioned the Raimann kid from the Colts. That guy got absolutely baptized in Denver a couple years ago. He looked ****ing terrible just like Kingsley. He gave up pressure on almost 7% of his pass plays early on (top 3 worst rates in the league) and he improved massively to under 6% the next season. The history is there. I don’t understand why everyone is so quick to throw Kingsley in the trash. |
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There's a huge difference between writing Kingsley off entirely and not being willing to pencil him in as anything more than a project for 2025. That kid needs YEARS of work at this point, and by the time he's ready to be deployed it'll be time for Taylor to **** off the payroll. So yeah, regardless, we still need to find AT LEAST one boat and it may be two.
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I mean could we luck into a Dion Dawkins type? He was a day two pick. Would kill to have that level of LT.
We just aren't hitting for shit on those picks so far. |
If Humphries looks even like a Donovan Smith level LT that can be decent and not **** this offense over then you keep him and continue to develop Kingsley in the background.
Don’t care if it takes 2 or 3 years. In that scenario Kingsley could be a playable LT at the ripe age of 24 if it all works out. I just don’t think we’re gonna be able to get a LT that is truly worth trading up for. I would bet those guys go in the top 13 and it seems so ****ing impossible to trade up that far. |
The goal is for him to be Eric Fisher
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Absolutely not. Humphries has missed almost 1/3rd of the games he could've played in. That's a fast track to Suamataia being forced into play when he's not ready once again.
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As DJ said, we can trade 2 1's, a 2, and a 3 and get up to 5 and get someone like Alt. But we may also end up with someone like Becton who is drafted high and never pans out, either for talent or injury reasons. And that's a big swing and miss that can absolutely set the team back if other picks also don't hit. |
One could argue that if a guy needs YEARS worth of development, taking him in the 2nd round probably isn't a good idea.....
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I feel like Andy is probably fed up with Taylor's issues enough by now that he even looks to bring in legit competition for him too next spring.
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At some point, you learn by playing. So he's gonna have to figure it out, or not here pretty quick
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That's what they tried to do this year and it's also why we're relying on Humphries to attempt to make sure this isn't a wasted year.
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Kolton Miller DJ Humphries Garrett Bolles Bernhard Raimann Jordan Malaita Eric Fisher Jake Matthews None of these guys were ass kickers coming out of the gate. They all took time |
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There's no unifying logic here. People want to say "trade up because our 1st round picks suck anyway". Well if our first round picks suck, and we can't identify LT talent, why would you give up multiple 1st's for a guy that's likely to fail? |
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Average will play. It's gonna HAVE to play unless we get unbelievably lucky. I mean Cam Robinson is going to be a free agent this off-season. The Vikes ain't tagging him with Darrisaw coming back. Robinson would be someone we would HAVE to look at. And he's going to cost a ton. But I'd sign Cam Robinson over Trey Smith 100 times out of 100. Because he'll pass protect. And do it well. |
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You fellas have got to get over this shit. What is 'legit competition' for a RT making $25 million next season? When we don't have a LEFT tackle at all? This is just silly. |
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If you draft a LT in the 2nd round and he's a starting caliber player by his THIRD season, you're in good shape. As good as can be reasonably expected anyway. I think we have to recognize how few of these guys are ready to play in any meaningful way as rookies. |
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Did we start this POS yet
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And it's not just the OTs we've taken vs. the ones we haven't. I mentioned taking Cook ahead of Raimann but we took Skyy Moore ahead of Luke Goedeke as well. We just have to scout/draft/develop the OTs better. We're not doing a good job of it. It's not a question of capital -- its execution. We're doing a bad job there. |
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These coaches aren’t dumb. Andy is not going to get rid of a tackle that is consistently good in pass pro penalties be damned. And you can be sure as shit that Sean Payton will 100% keep Garrett Bolles after his contract ends this season bc he sure as hell does not want his new QB turned to shit. These guys have massive value. That’s how ****ing bad the Tackle crisis is in this league |
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It's just ignorant as ****. He's a fine pass blocker, but he clearly doesn't think so or he wouldn't have to line up in the backfield to do his job even when he knows he's risking a penalty. How many sacks has he more or less cost us in terms of penalty yardage? I'm just over it. I want someone who is capable so they can yank his ass whenever he gets called for it. |
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Imagine if we traded and up and got this type of play early on? This place would melt down so hard. Miller is one of the better pass protecting LT’s now btw |
Kolten Miller is another one.
His first year he was TRASH. His 2nd year he was mediocre at best. In his third year and beyond, he's been one of the better pure pass protecting OTs in football (and not a bad run blocker). That's just the way OTs develop. The overwhelming majority are hot spiced ass early in their careers and you just have to power through it. EDIT: DAMN YOU, RUN! Beat me by seconds to the Miller comp... |
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That's the issue. We have a dire need at the LT position and a guy in Taylor who is an above average pass blocker who will, once a game, get you an annoying 5 yard penalty. RT is one of the LAST things we should be worried about right now. Shit, RG has been a bigger problem than RT. DE is a mess. The secondary evidently fell apart when Watson went down so the depth there is awful. Bolton is a pending FA and Tranquil is aging in dog years. Brown and Hopkins are pending FAs, Kelce is as likely to retire as he is get 800+ yards next year. Rice is coming off a knee injury with a possible suspension looming. You really think this team has any business at all putting any capital, draft or cap, into a potential replacement for Jawaan Taylor? I reiterate - you have GOT to get over this. It's not the issue you're making it. It's of far far FAR lesser concern than at least a dozen other issues we're going to have for the remainder of this season and into next season. |
The tackle crisis in the league is due to the prevalence of spread formations in college. Very few of these guys play in "NFL" offenses in college anymore. Almost all of them need development. It's just the nature of the game.
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Rashawn Slater was the one I really pined for
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The ball comes out so fast and the designed quick passes/runs don’t have these kids pass blocking as often as they should. Kingsley is literally a mold of clay. He’s a damn good mold with elite size and athleticism but he needs to learn technique. That’s fixable but it’s gonna take time. We saw the same thing with Dee Ford and Eric Fisher. |
Damn I liked Guyton too. It’s tough out there
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Chiefs have to do whatever it takes to get a LT in the draft"<br><br>- Alt: taken pick 5 but great<br>- Latham: pick 7 and PFF's 49th tackle<br>- Fashanu: taken pick 11 hasn't played but 3 games at LT<br>-Fuaga: taken pick 14 PFF's 46th tackle<br>- Mims: Has been hurt, playing RT and rated 60th<br>-…</p>— Price Carter (@priceacarter) <a href="https://twitter.com/priceacarter/status/1863979983858782297?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 3, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> |
So did the POS practice today?
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It’s a wasteland out there for tackles. I don’t know if they’re just not being developed properly, or if edge rushers are just getting too good, but we are not going to find anything better than Humphries this offseason. It’s simply not going to happen. |
LMAO Come the **** on. An appeal to authority with a Twitter account that has only 2k followers and has absolutely nothing of substance to say except point to arbitrary PFF grades? Surely you can argue the point better than that.
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There was a good nugget of wisdom I got from one of Rich Eisen's guests a couple months ago, talking about Anthony Richardson and similar QB's not being developed enough, the college spread offense, etc.
My takeaway from it was the NFL really relies heavily on College Football to do the "dirty work" of developing these players to be pro ready... even though that's not at all the job of a College Football HC. Their job is to win games, not train their players towards a specific style of play that they'll need once they get to the NFL. If there's anyone to blame, I suppose it would be Goodell and the NFL owners at large for putting this responsibility at College Football's feet instead of using their own money to run a "Developmental League" themselves. I'm sure they potentially saw this coming, they just didn't care because they wanted to make more money. |
If you need a reminder for how absolutely worthless the PFF grades are, Trent Williams got one of his higher single game grades against the Chiefs in 2022. You know, the game where Frank Clark got back to back sacks on him, including a safety that ended any miniscule hopes they had of coming back.
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Nick Bolton > Tre smith
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Wouldn't it be nice if the NFL had a kind of minor league they could send a lot of these players to so they could develop NFL skills?:hmmm: |
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FWIW Mitchell Schwartz pretty openly stated Smith's issues have been from having to make up for Taylor's weakness. I am assuming those deep pass sets are ****ing things over for Trey. |
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They missed Brandon Coleman, starting LT for the Washington Commanders, drafted in the 3rd round this year. |
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Which is precisely what we already knew. So I'm not entirely sure what your point is here. Do you believe any of the things that guy said regarding the respective players were WRONG? Would you try to argue that Fashanu, Fuaga, Mims or Guyton have been good this year? I'd say that's your burden to carry at this point, hoss. To this point you've provided nothing to indicate that any of those guys would've been worth giving up 2 first rounders for. You bemoan a lack of substance when to this point all you've done is blow past any attempts to speak to whatever argument it is you're trying to make. |
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But really, after Alt, Latham and Rosengarten, nobody in the class has really established themselves. Coleman has the job but by default more than performance. He's been pretty iffy in his own right. |
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My understanding is that Coleman is far more pro ready than the guys before him, he fell because scouts thought he was limited athletically. Can't remember Rosegarten scouting reports but wasn't he supposed to be RT only? We paid a premium to get a guy like Kingsley because even though he was raw, he had LT upside... |
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We've ALWAYS utilized deep sets. At least since Mahomes took over. That was the biggest worry with Orlando Brown Jr -- did he have the feet to make those deep sets work? That's not a 'weakness' of Taylor, it's a necessity in this offense. He HAS to get back out of his stance and take a deep set. I won't say an inability to deal with that is a real indictment of Smith necessarily, just another example of him not being an ideal fit here. He just isn't. Thuney doesn't struggle to keep that outside shoulder protected despite having a MUCH worse OT alongside him and dealing with similar problems. Thuney, to this day, is probably the best pass-blocking OG in the league. Thuney is a dream scenario in terms of skill sets and scheme fit. Smith just isn't. |
If we pay big money to Trey Smith, I’ll be very very confused.
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Two first rounders?!! What draft pick chart are you working off of? Let's use Mims as our example since he's the player we got linked to after the fact. Picked at 18 so you gotta move up to 17 presumably. That's 32, 64, and a day three pick. I'd do that gladly in hindsight. Would kind of suck to lose out on Worthy but currently he and Mahomes mesh about as well as orange juice and toothpaste, and Suamataia isn't even playable. Mims has warts but he's also shown incredible promise and as ****ing shit as the Bengals have turned out to be I can't really finger him as a major problem.
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Trey is goner, and it sucks. |
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If Trey leaves I expect Nourzad to win the job unless we spend another high draft pick at guard. |
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Which by the way, I don't hold it against BV. |
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Yeah, there's been a lot of home work done on this front - there's really little utility in it. Statistically, you're better served using 32 AND 64 on developmental tackles than you are trading into the middle of the 1st round. Once you get past the top 2 OTs in any given draft class, it's a scouting exercise and little more. You're no more likely to find 'the answer' at 18 than you are by taking two swings at 32 and 64. And you'd be massacring Mims if we'd have traded a 1st and 2nd rounder to move up for him. "Has some warts" is a hell of a lot more diplomatic than you'd be if a guy who all the scouting reports indicated was a RT long-term were to be one of the bottom 1/3 OTs in the league playing RT here. And if he were asked to play LT in THIS scheme, he'd be getting taken to the woodshed just as badly as Morris. This is a wildly disingenuous argument. |
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Your definition of “elite” is weak if you consider any of those players listed in that same category. |
Huh? He's been pretty damn good even as a rookie outside of the Ravens and Chargers game where he was playing with a high ankle sprain. Outside of those two games he's allowed either one or two pressures.
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To be clear, I’m not picking on Veach and I don’t hold it against him, either. This might have become the second hardest position in the league to fill behind QB. It’s just damn near impossible at this point. These college programs are just not sending in enough talent, and it really sucks. |
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The issue is you need to either draft top ten to get a plug and play guy OR draft talented projects that won't be ready. I think it is obvious we need to sign competent place holders to play during our SB window and keep drafting guys like Kingsley. |
Kingsley is 21 years old. He wasn't ready, it happens.
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What really shocks me is after the Super Bowl loss to the Bucs I never thought we would be in this position again. I understand it's not easy but how did we end up here? I am not complaining, our back to back Super Bowls are more than I ever dreamed, I'm just surprised.
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What is not understandable is why the Chiefs entered this season with only Wanya Morris as a back-up option if Kingsley wasn’t ready. |
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