that's where it has to start.

Is it at least possible that Orton is like Gannon? Gannon got better with age. I thought Orton got a

raw deal after leading the Bears to the playoffs and then they went with Grossman. Orton is a much

better QB today than the was then. I don't think the play calling was a lot different but I think the

QB went downfield and didn't give up on plays. I also think some of the O line problems were

reduced by Orton burning the Packers when they blitzed and threatened them with the deep ball

the entire game thus not letting them put 10 in the box and jam receivers. If he continues to play

well how do you not sign him?

Was he drafted, by us and only us, 1st round top 10?

Didn't you say Orton was garbage?

:)

The one play that stood out to me more than any one was when BJ Raji busts through the middle and is in Orton's face. I am thinking for sure this is going to be a sack or INT... he stands there and keeps progressing through receivers then fires the ball for a completion.

My wife looked at me and said "Cassel couldn't have done that, he'd of looked like a toddler running in place about to pee himself"

Yes I did. I was proven wrong yesterday...

guess we are going to see how he does against the raiders and the broncos..

but still want a franchise QB for the future to start next year.
I am not going to change my approach on wanting a 1st rd qb under center. I want a superbowl victory.. Not feel good stories...

I'm not some Orton fan, but this is pure speculative nonsense.

we've pointed out multiple times that Orton did things fundamentally that Cassel hasn't done in 3 years. Cassel had good half-games against those 3 teams. In his entire 3 year career, he has less than a handful of games where he was very good for more than 3 quarters. That's really bad. Orton's been here one game and he already did that once. Yes, I thought Cassel played a decent game against Minnesota and Indy for a half. Against San Diego, he wasn't great. He got a bunch of yards on a few gimmick plays and disappeared for almost the entire second half.

Again, it's the little things. Cassel gets antsy when the primary read isn't there. orton kept his cool. Cassel is lazy at selling the play fake. Orton did it beautifully. Cassel is inaccurate--he doesn't always get the ball there and almost never leads his receivers. Orton isn't perfect, but significantly better.

Neither are probably long-term options. But don't act like Orton's success comes from the magical genius that is Bill Muir.

That is the first I ever heard that. I think he saw some pictures of him drinking and boozing and assumed that. Everything i've heard is that he has a solid work ethic and is liked by his teammates. I don't think he has a Tom Brady like work ethic (in cassel's defense, he's a relentlessly hard worker. Probably works harder than Orton). But that doesn't mean it's close to an issue.

"Cassel works really hard" is hardly a glowing endorsement. The kids at the special olympics work really hard too.

You know when our franchise has hit rock bottom when you are debating Orton vs Cassel and totally blind to the fact that neither can win you a superbowl.

we should be discussing our first round shiney new frachise of Hope QB...

But NO, we are talking about orton vs cassel....

Can we get any lower?

But you can't just jump to the opposite extreme. It's not "start a first round QB or bust." It's... "just draft a good QB we can develop for the future."

Few are saying Orton is the next hope. But I think most of us would be very comfortable with him being a starter for 1-2 years while we develop somebody on the bench. I think people are acting like a young QB learns nothing on the bench. I'll again point to my golf example. You don't learn how to be a good golfer until you play a few rounds on a real course. But if you become really good on the range, then when you step on the course, it's all about tweaking and making small adjustments.

You are about as extreme as the come and are all over the place...

**** showing the ropes feel good stories... I dont want orton for 1-2 years. I want a franchise qb playing football...

Well you're a fan of our team, so no.. we cannot get any lower.

It's not about showing the ropes. It's about having QBs coaches to teach mechanics. Training them in the film room. Playing on the scout team. Adjusting to the speed of the game.

Unless you have an abomination of a QB situation, there is no reason to force rushing getting a young QB on the field.