Or how he got the starting job with the multitude of issues he had. He had multiple fatal flaws exposed against the Bengals and Broncos.

I still don't get why we didn't push harder for Tyron Smith or someone like him.


It seems last year was the year of no WR's and this is the year of no LT so far.


3 Peat is depending on DJ right now.

They went with the young secondary in 22. Worked out.

Young WR's in 23....didn't work.

Shit happens. I dunno.

Yep, so much is now dependent on a guy coming off of a major knee injury who hasn’t played in almost a full calendar year.

Wonder what they'll do if it doesn't work out? Throw Thuney out at LT again or go back to Morris? Hopefully we don't have to find out

I liked and wanted Tyron Smith but, not unreasonably, people pointed to his injury record. LT is the one area where they really got the eval wrong. It happens I guess.

Just have to accept we may never have an elite LT protecting Mahomes. Next option is 2027 when we can boot Taylor, but unfortunately it's 2026 that looks like the pick of the LT FA years. Gotta keep swinging in the draft and hoping, and finding cheap OK-ish vets.

Not blaming Veach, but God i hate Taylor and his sh***y contract

It'll be Thuney.

Once you make that move they did Sunday, there's no goin back.

Yeah, I mean, this is how it has to work when you have a 500 million dollar QB. It’s just how it’s going to be for us, they’re going to have to take chances with youth. I just hope they’ve learned it simply can’t be at the tackle position.

The important thing is they keep finding ways to win, which can’t be said for most franchises. Until that stops, we just roll with it.

They were either really high on Kingsley or thought Tyron Smith wasn't reliable due to his injury history. From what I remember, Smith's contract with the Jets was heavily incentivized on him playing a lot of snaps.

Now they're ironically bringing in Humphries, who also has an injury history.

Agreed. When Mahomes is done, it's a wrap. And he seemed pretty ****ing done with Morris on that second sack.

Yep. 6 million guaranteed with incentives that could push it up to 20 million almost entirely earned by a percentage of snaps played.

They lost their #1 WR (who was looking like he may have been a legit top 5 WR this year) their #2 WR and their #1 Rb all in the first month of the season.

We've discussed that all before but shit....if that happened to say...the Ravens or the Eagles, do we think they're sitting at 11-1?

They've won back to back SB's and are the 1 seed thru 12 games in a 3 peat season, with some catastrophic injuries. Guys are coming back. Just gotta see how it plays out.

I was shocked when Kingsley was named starter. Pleasantly surprised because I assumed he would NOT be ready.


As smart as this team is, I still wonder about how we miss on guys we can see in practice like Toney, Skyy, or Kingsley.

For reference.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One day we will learn to pick up an E/T on the right side. Today is not that day.<br><br>Trey is put in an impossible situation every game. Knows it’s coming, knows he’s going to get no help from Jawaan, and is the one who gets picked and has to deal with DEs teeing off on him. Sucks.</p>&mdash; Mitchell Schwartz (@MitchSchwartz71) <a href="https://twitter.com/MitchSchwartz71/status/1860790127846662238?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 24, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That’s not true. We were pretty good in my time. They’ve been a much bigger issue the last two years because Jawaan uses the same pass set every time where he sets super deep and allows the DE to get inside pressure. Until he changes it there’s nothing that will improve. <a href="https://t.co/3FrXXiosO1">https://t.co/3FrXXiosO1</a></p>&mdash; Mitchell Schwartz (@MitchSchwartz71) <a href="https://twitter.com/MitchSchwartz71/status/1860792303197303175?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 24, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

How to not hold it against BV? He constantly overpays the wrong players that end up underperforming substantially relative to their contracts. Or just flat out overpays relative to market, like Creed Humphrey. Creed and his agent damn near raped BV.

The worst part is the average fan would recognize this before the fact. Before they even played a down as a Chief. That it was not good value for contract and/or picks traded. Frank Clark, Jawaan, MVS, etc. Even the likes of Justin Reid and Joe Thuney were overpays. And I'm sure Noah Gray could have been had for less.

I think we will know based on who they have active on Sunday. If Morris is active, then I think he's the backup.

Honestly? I think they'll call up Donovan Smith if they have to.

I think Mahomes is DONE with Morris at LT and consequently, right or wrong, the KC staff will be too.

Gotta keep the Franchise happy.

It's pretty obvious they thought they were going to get more out of Wanya in year 2 than what they have so far. It was a miscalculation for sure.

Frank Clark issue was we traded draft capital too.

Jawaan was market value.

Reid is a fine contract.

MVS was overpaid but by a few million. He was a 5 million player that they paid 10-11 to.

Who the **** is this reerun?

Donovan Smith isn't gonna be on this team. If they wanted him they would have brought him in weeks ago. He'd be worse than Morris was against the Raiders.

You cannot even spell rerun properly.

You have Jawaan and Creed as significant overpays, to start. And Thuney received a massive contract at that time, as well. WTF.

Yep. From all accounts it sounds like it was either/or between Smith and Humphries.

Do we even have an offensive line coach or did Andy hire some 30 year old intern like he did the kid who coaches the WRs?

It's a filter you ****ing noob. I'm calling you a R-E-T-A-R-D.

Everybody has to overpay you butt****ing moron. If you want a GM that never overpays go be a fan of the ****ing Indianapolis Colts and Chris Ballard. Sounds like more your speed.

I'm with Mitchell

They probably see how things go this year with Humphries. If he’s good you bring him back. If he’s not you go after Cam Robinson who played in our offense in Jacksonville like Jawaan.

A 2 year deal with the 2nd being an option is good so you can see how Kingsley is coming along.

Sorry fellas I think the draft is gonna be damn near impossible for us to move up that far. Would take a massive overpay.

So much for the narrative that “Taylor is solid, except for his (numerous) penalties”.

I'm not saying it would necessarily be the Chiefs first choice, but if Mahomes wants him over Morris back there and there's no other realistic option, then I could see it happening.

Keeping Mahomes happy is definitely a thing.

Originally Posted by FloridaMan88 View Post
Which is understandable.

What is not understandable is why the Chiefs entered this season with only Wanya Morris as a back-up option if Kingsley wasn’t ready


KC fans: You got to do whatever it takes to fix the WR position!

KC drafts Rice, Worthy, and signs Hollywood, resigns CJ, apparently tries to trade up for a tackle but fails and ends up rolling the dice at that position.

KC fans: Why does the team have holes in other positions like LT!

This team doesn’t have a DE anywhere near as good as Hendrickson or Bonitto.

He probably looked good blocking FAU and Danna

Jones?

Totally forgot Cam Robinson is a free agent after this year. Since Darrisaw will be coming back for Minnesota, they’ll obviously let Cam walk. That’s your guy if Humphries doesn’t work out. You’ll have to drastically overpay most likely, but you go get him at all costs if DJ doesn’t prove to be the guy.

I don’t think we have much to worry about. When Mahomes snaps, the Chiefs seem to finally stop dicking around and make changes. I think there’s zero chance they come out of next offseason without a legit, proven LT.

A veteran stopgap LT would have been sufficient.

Could have had Cam Robinson at the trade deadline for next to nothing.

That should have happened.

Agreed. Especially since the Jaguars ate most of the remaining salary.

Didn't Rosengarten have short arms keeping him from being KC eligible?

Wasn't Wanya playing guard some in camp? Any chance they just swap Wanya and Thuney at some point?

He must have looked good enough in camp for them to assume he can handle NFL pass rushers. He looked fine the opening game of the season. The next game was a disaster and he got benched.

The coaching staff and Veach also assumed last year's WR core would be more productive with Toney, MVS, and Moore as the major weapons, with Rice chipping in as a rookie. I don't think they expected Toney or Moore to be flaming turds. They hit on Rice at least.

Veach has done a better job than other GMs but that doesn't mean he hasn't made mistakes obviously at other positions. He's drafted four tackles which haven't panned out. My guess is he'll invest in a first rounder in the next draft at LT or maybe RT. Drafting them in other rounds hasn't worked out.

Schwartz never played a game alongside Smith. And the OTs he did play alongside (Wylie - agile enough to move to OT and LDT) were both quite a bit more agile than Smith. Smith, for everything he does well, isn't strong laterally. Never has been. He's a mauler -- those two weren't.

Additionally, Schwartz was a HoF caliber player who, due to health and wasting away his first several years in a god-awful franchise, never got the credit for being as technically sound as he was. It's pretty damn unfair for him to be saying "Well I could do it..."

Yeah, well Bruce Matthews played 300 games without breaking down and you couldn't, Mitch - does that make you a bitch? No, it means that you're great - someone else was better. And?

It's pretty ridiculous to pretend like Taylor should just be able to go back a step and protect Mahomes who has dropped waaaaaay back for the vast majority of his Chiefs career. And again, if Mitch wants to hold Taylor to his standard, why isn't it fair to hold Smith to Thuney's standard? Because those LTs aren't doing Thuney a single damn favor over there and HE'S not getting ripped by stunts.

Smith isn't a good fit here. Good player - might be a great one in the right system. This just isn't it.

Which again, calls into question what they're looking at when evaluating the position.

Because if this thing with Morris is as simple as him not having a plan B and ALWAYS biting on the same deke/swipe move....how the hell didn't that show up on tape from last season? Or camp/practice?

More than scouting outside players like Kingsley, that's a REALLY damning indictment of their self-scouting. If he has that glaring of a weakness, how did you go into this season with him as a viable plan B?

Now IF he's hurt and because he's hurt he's having to compensate and cheat a bit due to that knee being worse than we realize, that's a different animal. But we saw a similar regression to this last season just over a later time-frame because Smith started the first half of the season. If this is just an issue of exposure rather than injury, that's a real miss by our in-house scouting department and coaching/development team.

Okay, so I wasn't the only one a bit put off by the self aggrandizing tone he took.

Many won't agree with me, but if I'm Veach I'm not paying that contract he's going to command. That money will be best served distributed elsewhere on the roster to keep this train moving along.

I don't think many would disagree.

I hate that I keep coming back to this conclusion, but I really think Kingsley looked good because the guys he went against every day just...suck.

I mean we have ZERO speed to test him against (and those are the guys that really give him fits). And even someone like Danna doesn't have advanced technique - he's a motor guy. Hell, what little bit of bend/explosion we had at DE almost died on the field. He looked credible against Malik Herring and Mike Danna.

The staff's confidence in him was almost certainly misplaced due to really poor competition opposite of him. I just can't see any other viable explanation.

Yeah - I think that's probably a majority position 'round here anyway.

I think CP writ large is probably 2-1 against keeping Smith at the figure he'd require to stay.

I'd take an average LT over a blue-chip RG every single time. And again, if Robinson costs roughly what Smith would cost, I think Robinson is an easy answer there.

Yeah and we have Chris Jones but he beats everybody. Could totally see them hand wave those struggles bc of who Chris Jones is.

Chris ain't an edge speed guy. He ain't beating him the way the others are.

Eh, he'd have treated him about like Hendrickson did. Hendrickson is very much a power rusher who has the ability to bend an edge off that club move -- that's how Jones operates off the edge as well.

I'd just be surprised if we gave him a ton of reps vs. Jones in a group setting. You don't put 1s vs 1s very often and when you're doing that, I'd imagine most of those reps would've been Jones vs. Taylor or Jones vs the interior line.

There was something to be learned there - we just didn't learn it.

Great - just something else I can blame FAU for...

That was far from the only issue. There was footage of him in camp getting absolutely destroyed on an inside move in 1 v 1s and folks were shouted down for suggesting we might want to bring in a stopgap in case that's not improving come game time.

Why not hold them both to a higher standard. Smith occasionally looks like he's wearing concrete boots moving laterally, and Taylor isn't apparently capable of setting up less deep and not getting beaten inside. Said before but at least Smith is cheap!

What are you basing this off of? What comparables were there for Reid and Thuney to know they were overpaid?

I think Mitch is overstating the issue.

Taylor isn't just screaming up the arc and camping. Even in the Mahomes GIF thread, you see about half his sets deep but almost always square to the rusher (i.e. the rusher went up the arc, Taylor went with him) or maybe a stride off Smith.

Which is, y'know, a pocket. That's how OTs play. They give ground to lose slowly. Then occasionally you'll see obvious RPO blocking where they form that wall in case Mahomes hands the ball off, but those are quick throws and the blocking set doesn't matter as much.

Taylor doesn't set overly deep from what I can see. He's setting the pocket almost exactly where you'd want to set it for a shotgun offense. Yes, it's deeper than some teams will set their pockets (i.e. the Ravens) but that's because that's how our offense operates. Mahomes isn't coming from under center.

You can argue that he's early out of his stance sometimes and by reacting rather than reacting, sometimes he gives up his inside shoulder, but to connect that to Smith getting beat is an awfully tenuous connection. When that happens, we can see it and KNOW it's Taylor giving it up. And to say "Well Smith is aware that COULD happen and so he's watching his outside shoulder and it's making him lose on the inside..." Oh c'mon - that's a bridge too far. That's some person in an interview saying "My biggest flaw is that I work too hard and care too much..."

No, Smith is not getting beat because he's worried about the occasional instance of Taylor getting beat inside. That just doesn't make any sense. And to act like it's happening play in, play out and is clearly the CAUSE of Smith's struggles - I'm sorry, but that's just excuse making.

Neither guy was overpaid.

Reid got paid as a solid young FA safety. That's what those guys get and that's what he's been.

Thuney was paid as the best pass-blocking OG in football. That's what THOSE guys get and that's what he's been. There are 10 guards right now with a higher AAV than Thuney and there's not a SINGLE guard in the NFL that would've been better for this team over the 5 years he'll be here than Thuney has been.

He's mostly just wrong.

A lot of teeth gnashing in this thread.

We tried to get out of stop gaps and develop some young OTs. I'm sure plenty of discussions were had between Veach, Andy and Patrick and they decided they could deal with, coach and play around the growing pains. These guys just haven't developed fast enough so here we are. I bet in the process Veach also looked at the landscape and thought if need be we could pick up a vet as the season wore on and that's precisely what happened.

We're still 11-1 with all the shitty players Veach has drafted and brought in as well. Gnash away though...gnash away, gnash away, gnash away all!

I see a lot of discussion in this thread. I think you are looking for teeth gnashing, where little exists. It's ok to discuss these things, regardless of records, phil. It's what makes this board thrive and survive.

Jones showed what he can do to a raw rookie OT last year in Jacksonville. He beat Anton Harrison like a pinata.

The "tone" of parts of this discussion are 100% teeth gnashing but you are 100% correct about what makes this board go. Posts like mine are part of that as well.

So did we practice today? No reports on how Humphries looked?

Tomorrow is the first day

Yeah, FA you normally overpay for just good.


Thuney was ELITE at his position. I pay elite players and figure out the rest.

Thanks, Pugs!

Look man, Humphries is gonna hold it down for the next three years at a pro bowl level... so we can all just shut the **** up now

This is why dynasties are such a rare thing anymore and also why repeating, much less three-peating is so challenging (and non existent as of this moment on the three-peat).

Teams have to win while still on a rookie QB salary, catch lightning in a bottle one year at the right time, or (which is the case with KC) have elite personnel from top to bottom, such as QB, HC, DC, and GM.

Biggest problem with youth at the tackle position is that any vet worth anything usually does not hit the open market. Now if Humphries can return to form or close to it, KC would have hit the very rare jackpot at LT.

Lol, I like the cut of your jib, sir.:clap:


I do hope DJ plays close to his PB level. Not at first, I know it's going to take a few games at the least to find his sea legs, but by the time the playoffs come around I hope he's playing significantly better than Morris.


Then, if he shows out at all, bring him back for 2025, and maybe Kingsley can be his understudy and be ready in 2026 or so? Would be nice.

They did that with Taylor. They paid him a bunch of money to be our RT and currently many people question that. Is Robinson good enough for $20+ million a year? Or is this a desperation type of overpay that burdens this team with another overpaid player (in comparison to salary). The fact Jacksonville let him go via trade should give pause.

Look man Humphries IS returning to form... even better in fact

Its gonna be Willie Roaf 2.0, its gonna be deja vu all over again

I was very confused when we paid a center and decided to roll with a rookie LT and a guy who already absolutely got his ass pounded last year.

But it was Chiefsplanets favorite signing of the last 30 years it seemed like. Pay centers elite money. Yeah!

Yeah, the fact they actually ate 7 million and only got a conditional 5th/4th back gives me serious pause. Shit had to go really sideways for that to make any sense.

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From reading Jags fans responses on Twitter and Reddit, they knew Walker Little was taking over and Cam was a FA after this year. They wanted the kid to play.

From what I’m reading Cam Robinson was very average and better in pass protection than run blocking.

I mean…we wouldn’t take that? I guess price factors in here but the player? Absolutely

Yes, that's exactly what Cam Robinson is.

He's a below average run blocker, an above average pass blocker and on balance, probably around the 30th best overall OT in the league and probably gets a boost in terms of value for our specific team/system.

Strictly among LTs, he's probably among the 15 best options in the league for us. Now that's not to say he's anywhere near the top guys -- folks like Wirfs, Tunsil, Slater, Williams, Miller and probably Stanley -- those guys are a clear tier better than him at LT.

But when you start to talk about Moton, Dawkins, Decker, Cross, Jones -- he's in that tier as a pass blocker, IMO.

You pair him and Taylor and you have two very similar players who, IMO, fit what we do pretty well. They'll cost too damn much -- I hate the idea of $40-45 million/season to get two guys at OT who aren't guys who move the needle much, but for stability at a difficult position to fill, that's just what it costs.

And should Kingsley develop into a genuine option as a starter, you have an escape hatch with Taylor in 2026 so you can backload Robinson's deal a bit if you need to keep the cap sheet a little cleaner going forward (Kinglsey steps in for Taylor as Robinson's deal gets spendy).

At that point, you'd have a handful of teams with a better set of bookends than we have, at least as pass protectors.

TB: Wirfs/Goedeke
LAC: Slater/Alt
Denver: Bolles/McGlinchey
Houston: Tunsil/Howard
Philly: Johnson/Mailata
Min: Darrisaw/O'Neill
GB: Walker/Tom
CH: Jones/Wright
Bal: Stanley/Rosengarten

Who we'd compare VERY similarly to is Buffalo with Dawkins and Spencer Brown.

I can live with that. Wouldn't love spending that kind of money on OTs to have probably the 10-12th best set of OTs in the league, but it's just the cost of doing business when you strike out two years in a row trying to draft them.

You have the damn Packers out there with two OTs they got on the 3rd friggen day giving them a really strong effort for peanuts and thus creating about a $40 million cap advantage, but it just is what it is. You can bitch about it or you can fix it.

I suppose at this point I'd have to vote for fixin' it...

And of course this presumes Humphries doesn't come in, look really solid for us and sign a long-term deal. Which could very easily happen as well and really wouldn't move that needle a ton from my analysis above. If he works out, he'll be Cam Robinson-esque.

When you can't draft 'em, you can only work with what you've got.

And no matter who we draft or how high we move up, we CANNOT expect a rookie to be a viable starter next season. I don't know how many of these guys we have to see struggle in year 1 at OT before we come to grips with that. Even the blue-chippers need time more often than not.

The odds of there being anyone better than Robinson or potentially Humphries on the market are just really remote. Terron Armstead could be a cap casualty, I guess, but they don't clear much space by cutting him. I believe Bolles is a FA but he'll get tagged if not extended. Maybe Ronnie Stanley? Tyron Smith has the same age/injury concerns he had last season, I don't want to give him a long-term deal.

Robinson (or Humphries) will be the best of the lot in FA unless the Ravens let Stanley walk and I just don't see that as terribly likely.

That's your market and scarcity is gonna make 'em expensive. So I guess you draft in the areas you draft well and pay for the expensive veteran where you haven't.

If Robinson is the move, so be it, but really don't like the idea of signing Humphries to anything other than a one year deal to be a stopgap, and that's if he performs exceptionally to close out the season. That injury history just makes it untenable.

Yeah - and the knee isn't even my biggest worry with Humphries.

It's his back.

He hurt his back in 2022. And by most accounts, his performance in 2023 didn't recover to the level he was in 2019 and 2020 (or where he was prior to his injury in 2022).

Back injuries for big guys linger for quite awhile and in many cases never really go away. A lot of them have to drop a little weight or train less strenuously to avoid aggravation and it just creates less effectiveness. And it's hard to trust that not popping back up at some point.

This, all day

We don't have time to develop an in game, plug and play young tackle and go through his growing pains with him

We're in the middle of an historic window, we need basic competency at LT immediately and thats what an expensive but proven vet provides... meanwhile keep coaching up Suamataia hoping to break that vicious circle

And we’ve seen the caliber… or floor… for an LT that the Chiefs can effectively work with to run a highly productive offense.

Eric Fisher.

OBJ.

Donovan Smith.

Seems like Cam Robinson or Terron Armetead is at the level of those players.

Walker Little replaced Cam Robinson. Another LT that took years to develop.

Are we seeing a pattern here?

So we’ve settled on Cam Robinson?

Has anyone reached out to Brett to let him know?

**** off, drink some antifreeze