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DJ's left nut 01-06-2016 10:28 AM

Congrats to you guys on keeping a homegrown star.

Chiefspants 01-06-2016 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 12003282)
Steamer still likes him a lot, near 4 win protection (0 for Orlando). So now our team is up to 82 wins projected and we have 13M more to spend. Gallardo or Kennedy and you're pushing 85. That is in range already to win this sorry division, esp if you believe KC can keen exceeding the data projections.


Pitching is scary expensive now. We HAVE to hit on Zimmer or Almonte now. And soon.

I agree. Hitting on Zimmer, Almonte, or Mr. Unheralded Prospect will determine whether or not our competitive window stays open past 2017.

Chiefspants 01-06-2016 10:34 AM

Add in a Lincecum or Ian Kennedy and this will be a pitch-perfect offseason. I also would not be surprised to see us ink Holland to an incentive laden 3 year deal.

DeepSouth 01-06-2016 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 12003282)
Steamer still likes him a lot, near 4 win protection (0 for Orlando). So now our team is up to 82 wins projected and we have 13M more to spend. Gallardo or Kennedy and you're pushing 85. That is in range already to win this sorry division, esp if you believe KC can keen exceeding the data projections.


Pitching is scary expensive now. We HAVE to hit on Zimmer or Almonte now. And soon.

So PB, are you willing to give up the Royals 1st pick for Gallardo or Kennedy?

DJ's left nut 01-06-2016 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 12003212)
His 2011 and 2012 seasons probably register as "great" offensive season, but he's been more of an above-average hitter than a great one.

At 8.4/WAR, he needs to produce 8.5 WAR for the Royals to break even. I think it's reasonable to hope he gives you one more great all-around season 4-4.5 WAR, legit all-Star level), one more above average, and then a couple as a quality/average type starter.

I expect he'll see some time at 1B in 2018 and 2019 as well (as will Salvador Perez), but still play some Lf (unless his defense in LF remains above-average).

Of course, if someone stakes a claim to 1B in the meantime, that could change. I

The 'per WAR' model is just so out of whack.

It says what the 'market' is but the market also includes absolute albatross contracts. It includes stuff like Josh Hamilton and CJ Wilson giving the Angels absolutely nothing for $40 million/season.

It's the average cost of a win share, sure - but it's not what a players true value should be measured as.

Look at it this way: A 'replacement level' team wins 48 games. If you figure a team were to go to the market and simply buy the additional 40 wins they'd need to be a playoff team then playoff teams would need in excess of a $300 million payroll at the $8.4 million/share level.

In order for a player to actually contribute surplus value to a team, I think they need to be at about $5 million/share. Paying retail isn't how you win championships so the retail market shouldn't be used as the barometer for success.

If the Royals only get 9 Wins out of Gordon over the next 4 seasons, that means he will have been a below average regular over those 4 seasons. An above average regular on a contender should be about a 2.5-3 win player. If you pay $18 million/yr and get a below average regular for your efforts, that's not a good contract, regardless of what the $$/WS model says.

A good target for Gordon should be about 12 wins over the life of that contract. It's attainable but not easy and for $18 million/yr, I don't think that's an unreasonable figure to ask to consider the contract a 'win'. That would make the threshhold for a successful contract about $6 million per win share and that's much more in line with what a successful team would hope to get.

Saul Good 01-06-2016 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 12003346)
The 'per WAR' model is just so out of whack.

It says what the 'market' is but the market also includes absolute albatross contracts. It includes stuff like Josh Hamilton and CJ Wilson giving the Angels absolutely nothing for $40 million/season.

It's the average cost of a win share, sure - but it's not what a players true value should be measured as.

Look at it this way: A 'replacement level' team wins 48 games. If you figure a team were to go to the market and simply buy the additional 40 wins they'd need to be a playoff team then playoff teams would need in excess of a $300 million payroll at the $8.4 million/share level.

In order for a player to actually contribute surplus value to a team, I think they need to be at about $5 million/share. Paying retail isn't how you win championships so the retail market shouldn't be used as the barometer for success.

If the Royals only get 9 Wins out of Gordon over the next 4 seasons, that means he will have been a below average regular over those 4 seasons. An above average regular on a contender should be about a 2.5-3 win player. If you pay $18 million/yr and get a below average regular for your efforts, that's not a good contract, regardless of what the $$/WS model says.

A good target for Gordon should be about 12 wins over the life of that contract. It's attainable but not easy and for $18 million/yr, I don't think that's an unreasonable figure to ask to consider the contract a 'win'. That would make the threshhold for a successful contract about $6 million per win share and that's much more in line with what a successful team would hope to get.

Moving a team from replacement level to playoff level in a single season very likely would cost $300,000,000 for that season.

alnorth 01-06-2016 10:50 AM

huh, some of the salary is deferred, per Rosenthal. Wonder how much is deferred

Sure-Oz 01-06-2016 10:54 AM

So do they have enough money to get a SP and a RF

Saul Good 01-06-2016 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz (Post 12003396)
So do they have enough money to get a SP and a RF

Probably a starting pitcher. RF is going to be Dyson/Orlando.

tk13 01-06-2016 11:00 AM

What a great day. Hopefully Alex can stay healthy. I didn't think they'd be able to pull it off. Good for Dayton. I'm not surprised money is deferred. Anything past 4 years will be helped by the new TV contract.

Still expect us to go after a SP. We may not break the bank but I bet they make a move. Need more flexibility in the rotation.

alnorth 01-06-2016 11:06 AM

Gordon will be a 10/5 guy and have a full no-trade in 2 years. I'm not sure if I ever expected to have to care about 10-and-5 rights, since anyone we'd want to keep would probably be expensive.

Lex Luthor 01-06-2016 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 12003160)

Q

ChiTown 01-06-2016 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siberian khatru (Post 12003202)
This deal just gets better and better:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sources: Gordon salary in 1st yr of four-yr, $72M deal is lower, giving <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash">#Royals</a> chance to make other moves. Deal also includes deferrals.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/684758943453831169">January 6, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm late to the party but,

#1. **** YES!!!

#2 THIS IS A ****ING AWESOME DEAL

#3 **** YES!!!!

ChiefsCountry 01-06-2016 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 12003391)
huh, some of the salary is deferred, per Rosenthal. Wonder how much is deferred

Probably smart to deferr some money to the 18/19 seasons. We will have some cheaper players on roster on their first time deal ie Mondesi/Starling etc.

Great Expectations 01-06-2016 11:30 AM

I might buy my first jersey.


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