It would be awesome to see Pat in the Pistol with Williams on the right and CEH behind him. Reid can call RPOs but can let Williams and CEH run the option, I'd rather not see Mahomes out there running it as much.

From Albert Breer’s article asking GM’s about draft picks/classes:

Also another exec said that our first 2 picks could be big difference makers if they hit.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We had rookies predict their Madden ratings 🤣💯 <a href="https://twitter.com/EAMaddenNFL?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@EAMaddenNFL</a> <a href="https://t.co/QHrUKPOcvc">pic.twitter.com/QHrUKPOcvc</a></p>&mdash; The Checkdown (@thecheckdown) <a href="https://twitter.com/thecheckdown/status/1255966123599659009?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 30, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

We got the right guy LMAO

Veach said the Chiefs drafted CEH because the offense wasn't getting as many yards on 1st down runs as they expected from the blocking provided. I believe that's why Vegas bookies have CEH 2nd behind Burrow in OROY odds. CEH will be the 1st down back and feature back from game 1 on.

They better not screw CEH, 80 at a MINIMUM

CEH has swagger.

Ruggs seems like a Debbie Downer.

Badass

:thumb:

Can't wait to see this kid play. The Chief's front office seemed downright giddy to get this kid.

remember the last time the Chiefs FO was this giddy about a player....

I do.

As do I. I’d say it worked out well.

The Veach Love Affair picks tend to work out.

You mean over the guy who is a 4-1 favorite to win league MVP this season?

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BriskMeage...restricted.gif

It went something like this

Rookie RB who doesn't have breakaway speed?

I'm thinking 74-76ish. They'll almost certainly have Taylor ahead of him because he ticks off a bunch of 'madden prospect' boxes.

Madden's notoriously hard on rookies.

Yeah they’ll prolly shaft him like they do almost all the others

But if they were fair they could keep his speed in check, but still boost up quickness, agility, awareness etc

Maddens ratings are really stupid....last year they had Josh Jacobs like 4th on the Raiders RB depth chart, that shit makes no sense.

They pretty much give all rookies ass awareness, if they give him solid receiving stuff though that can boost his rating.

We’ll almost certainly be disappointed, they overthink it too much these days... it all looks incredible, but isn’t as fun to play as it used to be

If you have 20 tell me what system you have and I can get you a roster update someone made that has all these guys on the team.

I have 20 but am not connected to EA so I don’t get all the roster updates, gonna fix that next season though, there’s just too much they won’t let you do without being connected

Sincerely appreciate your offer though

I think the breakaway speed notion is a little misleading. He broke off long TD's several times last season...is he Tyreek? Obviously not but when he gets going he can take it to the house imo.

First thing I always did w/ my Madden franchise back in the day was trade Priest Holmes for a Ahman Green and and a draft pick. Because Holmes and his low 80s speed and acceleration just didn't do anything in Madden. He was a JAG. His vision meant nothing and he wasn't some tackle breaking bull so he was pretty much useless.

Trung Canidate was WAY better than Holmes in that game. I think it was the 2003 edition that grudgingly gave Holmes a solid overall rating but still made him damn near unplayable by just goosing his awareness level.

Yup, the way the rate some guys is just criminal

He's not going to just outrun an angle.

Damien Williams is NFL fast. CEH is faster than anyone you know, but he has average speed for an NFL runningback.

Everything is relative and no, CEH is not a 'fast' runningback. He's a fast human being, but at this level, he's not someone who lists speed as either a strong asset or a serious liability. It plays. It's fine. He's a fine broken-field runner who can probably house a play where he's in the middle and can make a single guy miss at the second level. But he's not spread the edge and start outrunning angles down the sideline like JC or even Williams could do.

His speed is adequate and that's fine when combined with his other strengths. But in Madden that don't get you much.

Honestly, I think speed for a RB is overrated.

Let me divulge. I think the true speed guys tend to overly rely on it and try to over use it. They become "big play searchers" that are all about that aspect, they don't want to bang out those 7 yard gainers or the vision to the hole gains where you make a guy miss in the hole and gain 13 yards.

Now, if you have a guy that can do that AND has speed (think Charles in his prime) well yeah, thats ideal. Or AP when he was in Minnesota early.

But for a RB these days and especially in this offense, give me wiggle and vision. Thats what made Hunt so perfect for it. He could rip off a big run here or there and get the offense going. I'm hopeful CEH is that.

Oh barring catastrophic injury, he’s that. You can take it to the bank.

There's a threshold level you have to reach. People kept trying to talk themselves into Elijah Holyfield for some weird reason last season and that's just not gonna happen. 4.8 isn't an NFL back. I tend to view 4.6 as right at 'this will work' level. And obviously some guys play a little faster than they time (Hunt ended up like that), others a little slower. But as a general rule, if you're at 4.6 or better, you're fast enough.

Now it'd be better if you were faster, but if you have enough other tools, you can make 4.6 work just fine.

CEH is probably going to have a speed rating somewhere between 86-89 depending upon how nice they are that day.

In the newer maddens speed isn't as important because the speed boost is actually detrimental to use constantly.

When you combine fit, situation, and position (RB is easily the easiest position to evaluate and transition), CEH might be the safest bet in the entire ****ing class.

Speed is king in Madden. Unfortunately he's not going to be that good, unless they REALLY fix the blocking. Can't spam stretch plays with speed that low.

Side note regarding the 'big play searchers' - I think CEH may need to overcome that a little bit. He didn't try to use speed to hunt edges but there were times he'd try to use his feet a bit and dance behind the line instead of take 3-4 yards that were readily available.

Seems a smart kid and in time he'll learn when there's more yardage there and when there just isn't. But early on I think we'll see some frustrating runs where he's just a little slow to give up on a play and try to salvage it. He'll make some 3 yard runs into 8 yard runs in the process, but he'll turn some 3 yard runs into -1 as well.

But I think he'll be an awfully good player. Someone asked, maybe in this thread, how a RB can make you more capable of dealing with a cover 3 and if you want the answer to that, watch the Rams game again. As you watch that game more and more you see just how hard the Rams were working to try to close up the middle and they just couldn't. Andy knew just how to use the threat of Hunt out of the backfield to create space underneath for Kelce and Watkins. And then as they would sell out to address that, he'd dial up something to attack the deep seam or corner.

He's gonna be an issue on his own but his impact on the offense overall will be a real bitch to handle.

Hunt just played so much faster than he timed but he wasn't ever a blazing back. But thats fine.

Just like WR's get schemed up in this offense, backs do so much as well. Andy is just really talented as a play caller/schemer. He'll get guys into space. CEH will be successful just based on that, but then you add in his abilities and it should be a great fit.

If you are boosting the second you take the handoff, it's why you are sucking at running...the only plays that works on is like toss pitches.

I can run no problem. Always use the smaller shiftier backs. Big bulldozers like Henry are pretty much worthless unless you just spam dive and cut left.

I'm excited to see him as a traditional runner too. I know he'll be a good pass catcher and in space, but he has really good vision. Getting that and getting him to realize not every play needs to be a big play, but those first down runs that can turn 2nd and 9 into 2nd and 5 for this offense is just gonna make it hell to deal with.

You get this offense in alot of 2nd and 3's and you're gonna end up scoring 50 pretty consistently.

Yea it all depends how you play, running out of the gun will never be as effective on that game as it is in real life.

It's pretty shit AI. You can just call stretch and overload the side of the field you're running to with blockers in motion, and you're golden as long as you can get the edge. It's why the 49ers are used all the damn time in online. All 3 of their backs are around 90 or higher speed.

Pretty much, the thing that frustrates me is I feel like the game is actually easier to play not in shotgun when the real world is completely the opposite.

Yeah, he knows how to get guys into those broken field areas where you have one guy in front of you and a few yards to either side of him. If you can put a back with average or better wheels there he can make a speed cut, the DB pretty much has to guess right or end up grabbing at air (like watching a goalie deal with a penalty kick). And with those kinds of cuts, average speed will still be good enough to get you 60+ yards before a DB tracks you down.

I think that's ultimately why they took him. Reid can make a running offense that works for Damien Williams; more zone-read, one cut kind of looks. He just doesn't want to. Given his druther's he'd stick with the stuff we were doing early in the season that worked nicely for McCoy but not so well for Williams.

It'll be interesting to see if they come out early w/ a scheme similar to what they were using w/ Shady or more geared towards maximizing Williams strengths. It'll tell us a lot about how they intend to utilize that timeshare.

I would be stunned if Williams isn't back to the role he was signed to play, 3rd down obvious passing down back because he's a good receiver and pass blocker.

But the thing is, he's also a pretty damn good runner in the right setup. I think he'd kill it in SF, for instance. He has good contact balance and great speed. His vision is lacking but if you cut down the number of options he has through scheme, you mitigate that issue somewhat.

And the NFL has become more and more a HR hitters league for RBs, IMO. Truly elite guys can go out there and be productive 5 yards at a time but the middle tiers earn their paychecks via chunk plays.

I kinda hate the idea of getting away from the stuff that has made Williams absolutely dominant in the post-season. A healthy Williams in the right system can be a 1600-1800 all-purpose yard back, IMO. He has those kinds of tools. But the problem is that you just can't tailor an offense to him w/ the kind of health history he has.

Just seems a waste to get away from him.

I think you can combine them really. CEH can theoretically play some slot WR and you can do some 2 back stuff. There's plenty of carries and touches to go around.

There was a lot of that in Pat’s offense at Texas Tech and you’d be hard pressed to find two better receiving backs on the same team than CEH/Williams. Hell, Washington is pretty damn good too.

Andy’s always adding new wrinkles. I fully expect it.

Which is why I think we'll start the season with Damien as our #1 back.

Ideally CEH will assume that role over time (probably sooner rather than later due to D Will's injury history), but I see no reason to turn away from the hot hand so quickly.

Yeah, he's a shitload smarter than I am so while I'm sitting here thinking "How can we utilize an outside zone system for Williams and an inside gap system for CEH?" Reid's just jotting shit on napkins that will somehow yield a hybrid zone/gap system that sets to raping faces.

Because we have a goddamn wizard running the show and a QB that removes any governor he's ever put on himself.

It's good to trust your coaching staff, man.

Yes, Williams will be the “starter”, but they didn’t draft a RB in the 1st round to not use him a ton.

Everybody wants to point to Hunt and Ware. Hunt was a 3rd round pick. The Seahawks are the only team I can think of recently that took at RB in the 1st round and didn’t give them RB1 level touches.

Don't forget Seals-Jones.

I mean you've got 2 RBs that can split out and 2 TEs who could both play the 'move TE' role. Oh yeah, and Tyreek played RB in college and Sammy is very possibly better in space than ALL of them.

Andy's getting near that mythical 'positionless football' status with his skill position players.

I bet the dude just gets a hard-on four or five times/day while sitting in his basement diagramming plays.

This. All of this. Williams has elite speed for an RB and his homeruns were gamechanging this season. The criticism he has had since the Super Bowl and the overwhelming arguments that he was a downgrade from Hunt have felt a bit bizarre. For instance, everyone is quick to point out his vision and fumble against the Titans. But without Williams, we may not win against the Vikings, Chargers (@ Arrowhead) or the 49ers.

The dude just flat out fulfilled each responsibility he had in the Super Bowl. He was sent to chip Bosa or Ford (and once even had Ford as a single responsibility). His footwork was outstanding through the Super Bowl. Perhaps his play of the game wasn’t a run, but the blitz he picked up to give Mahomes a clean pocket to hit Sammy over Sheen. Remember how Larry Johnson’s missed block against the Cowboys and Freeman’s missed block against the Pats ended both teams seasons? Williams’ blocking ability in those situations can’t be overstated.

I know injuries are a problem - but the dude doesn’t get the love on here he deserves. He has been stellar in every playoff game he’s played in for KC and deserves praise for it.

The run against the Vikings and to a lesser extent the Chargers TDs were huge, to be sure (I don't think a back can run any harder than he ran against the Chargers in week 17 - he was a ****ing load, man).

I remember the energy in the stadium in that Vikings game. 3 straight home losses, PM was hurt and that game had just turned into a slog where they just couldn't seem to find a working gear anywhere. Chiefs start the half punt/fumble and it looked for all the world like a 31-20 sort of game. The Vikings seemed right on the edge of getting a back-breaking score and the Chiefs offense was just teetering. Apart from the Hill TD, there had been nothing and you could feel the anxiety in the crowd.

Then Williams put Harrison Smith in a body bag and everything changed. And frankly, despite the bizarre Titans loss, that Vikings game did so much for the team that it really was a turning point for the season even if the winning streak didn't really start until the Chargers game. They so thoroughly dominated TN and needed so much crazy shit to happen to lose that you still felt like they'd gotten things back online after the Vikes win.

Williams was MASSIVE last year and people try to build up the CEH pick by undermining Williams contributions. I just don't think that's fair to the guy.

Yea it’s easy to forget about Seales-Jones but that’s just simply something we didn’t have last year. He’s a legitimate mismatch creator as a TE2 with Kelce.

Funnily enough, I think everyone remembers Reek catching Williams on the run that they forget about just how stellar of a run Williams had. Williams also gets grief because of how his YPC was impacted by long runs - but these long runs weren’t straight lines. He had to bury the defenders in each in order to hit paydirt. The guy was just a perfect fit in our O the past two posts seasons and I’m amazed at how easily people forget it.

My hope is that Andy has a Ware/West like dynamic but now with two much stronger runners, with CEH getting the majority of the load.

I haven't seen enough of Seals-Jones to understand what all he brings to the table. I recall him being a UDFA, but I don't know much else about him (outside of his injuries). This seems like a weird place, but can you talk a little about him?

It looks like the feature back in a Reid offense can reasonably expect around 250-275 rushing attempts per season. Per game that's only 15-17 with likely another 3-4 catches per match.

Even if we dip into D Will's touches for CEH, how many is he likely to get?

Reid had prime Jamaal Charles and Kareem Hunt and famously underused them at times. I'm just not sure he's truly going to be all in on the give-CEH-all-the-touches train from week 1.

As I've noted all along, CEH isn't just a back. He's like adding a Swiss Army knife to the offense with his legitimate receiving skills.

He underused Hunt to the tune of a rushing title.

He might not get feature back touches week 1, but he will still get plenty.

Did you notice I said "at times"?

That rushing title had a lot to do with KHunt averaging nearly 5 YPC and it being a down year across the league. His 1327 rushing yards that year was the lowest total for a rushing leader since 1990.

But the point still stands, you act like the idea of CEH getting 1,000 yards rushing catching 50 passes and scoring 10 TD’s is completely unrealistic.

He’s a stud, a perfect fit, and they invested a very high pick in him. They’re going to use him a lot. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Just something of a freaky size/speed guy who converted from WR at A&M to a TE hybrid sort of player in limited use in AZ and Cleveland.

With Kelce and Jones on the field, you pretty much have to have a LB on Jones. You can't match a LB on Kelce so you're already dedicating a DB to him and unless you just want to play in a dime all day, you're gonna run out of DBs to put on Jones and the RB out of the backfield as well.

So Seals-Jones on a LB is just a mismatch athletically. Now ultimately the guy's been something of a cock-tease his entire career, even going back to A&M. Top 50 national guy, top 3 out of TX, arguably the top WR and even a potential Div. 1 basketball player - supposed to be an absolute star who was supposed to pick up where Mike Evans left off.

By 2015 Christian Kirk is going off for 1,000 yards as a true freshman while Seals-Jones was just...there. A redshirt soph getting lapped on the depth chart by a true freshman ain't a good sign.

In all likelihood Seals-Jones remains as underwhelming as his been his entire career, but he's a set of tools we really didn't have last season and if anyone can figure him out, it's Andy.

And Charles had 330 touches in 15 games in Reid's first season before injuries held him back, the most touches/gm he ever had.

I've done as much litigating of this nonsensical argument as I care to do. It's in the "Reid is a terrible football coach" thread and the argument is just absurd.

Virus thinks CEH scoring 10 TD’s is unrealistic even though the corpse of Shady had 5 last year.

Not to mention this offense is probably going to score more like 2018 than 2019.

I'd set the over/under at 8.5 and I'm not sure where I'd actually end up betting. Probably the over.

I don't think 10 is a given, nor do I think it's an absurd suggestion. It's in play.

But just realize that if Williams comes out as hot to start 2020 as he was to end 2019, CEH could end up relegated to more of a 3rd down role. It's not impossible and Williams may well end up dictating CEH's trajectory. Andy's nothing if not loyal and he'll remember what Williams did for this team over the 2nd half of the season and into the playoffs.

Veach made a fair point when he noted how often Williams flat missed a read on a play that was blocked up well, but Reid will remember that late-season productivity.

Oh in no way am I saying it’s a given, but when RunKC made his prediction he thought it was unrealistic. Optimistic? Sure. But when Shady had 5 last year, I don’t see how it’s unrealistic at all.

Sounds like he'll be perfect IF he can block. That mismatch only happens if he's seen as something more than a big/slow receiver. Is he any good at that?

I don't think it's unrealistic, but in order for that to happen I think D Will would have to go down to injury first.

Unless the dude hits Alvin Kamara rookie season efficiency (which isn't likely), I don't see him getting the touches necessary to hit those numbers.

This is interesting

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In 2017, the Chiefs jumped ahead of the Saints to take Patrick Mahomes, who Sean Payton really liked and was on the NOLA’s radar. This time around, looks like the Saints pulled the trigger on a player that was on the Chiefs’ radar - Cesar Ruiz. <a href="https://t.co/H81ChTdJaF">https://t.co/H81ChTdJaF</a></p>&mdash; Herbie Teope (@HerbieTeope) <a href="https://twitter.com/HerbieTeope/status/1260641968775979008?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 13, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Not really.

Honestly, Blake Bell's measurables are comparable and he's a heck of an athletic guy for his size as well. Seals-Jones has a straight line speed advantage but Bell is more agile, IMO. And Bell's a little stronger and probably a better blocker.

I'm not sure he's a clear upgrade on Bell, to be honest. But he's different. Yelder and Bell are very similar guys where Seals-Jones may just provide a wrinkle with his deep speed that Bell didn't and Yelder won't.

I think Yelder's why they took a flyer on Seals-Jones. I'd give him no better than 60-40 odds to make the team but if he does, he has some unique skills that Reid can put to use.

Uh...thanks Sean?

Ruiz would've carried the same positional value concerns as CEH without the spectacular scheme fit benefits.

I am very happy the Chiefs didn't use a first on a center.

I’m happy it didn’t happen, but if it did, I would’ve nailed 3 of the first 4 picks in my final Chiefs mock. That would’ve been badass.

Hey, dipshit, stop misrepresenting my argument. I didn't say it was unrealistic. I said it was "wishful thinking" defined as the "formation of beliefs based on what might be pleasing to imagine, rather than on evidence, rationality, or reality" aka OPTIMISTIC, which you just agreed with. You literally just agreed with my original assessment, you ****ing idiot.

:facepalm:

Optimistic simply means hopeful and confident of the future.

Wishful thinking is not the same thing as being optimistic. That’s a reach. Maybe “overly optimistic”.

10 is just on the optimistic side (DJ’s 8.5 o/u is fair). It’s not wishful thinking.

Nooooo, bitch. Don't try and squirm your way out of this one. You've taken multiple victory laps in the Frank Clark threads calling DJ out for having too much ego to admit when he was wrong. You need to admit now that you misrepresented my initial argument this entire time. I just went back and checked and never once said it was unrealistic, only unlikely given Damien's status as the #1 back.

Did you even read the ****ing definition you posted?

“Rather than on reality” aka unrealistic.

You can’t possibly be this ****ing stupid LMAO

You know what’s not listed here? Optimistic.

Take your L and go home Virus ROFL

Alright, looks like we're arguing again then...

How is Run predicting our new rookie, who is slated to start the season as a complementary back, to match TD totals set by Brian Westrbrook in his second season as the lead back not wishful thinking?

How is you expecting CEH to eclipse 1,000 rushing yards with Damien Williams still on the team not wishful thinking?

Now you’re changing the argument entirely LMAO

What happened to “Noooo bitch stop misrepresenting me”? You got over that rather quickly and changed the subject. Would that happen to be because you’re a ****ing moron that just got exposed?