Now do Mecole Hardman.

You guys have higher expectations for a mid 2nd round pick than a top 10 ****ing pick.

I wouldn't call him a "massive bust", but relative to his draft status, he's absolutely a big disappointment.

No doubt. I love it.

They've got Josh Allen so they will be fine, but that'll even the playing field for us quite a bit when they start having to make some business decisions.

He didn’t say he was a disappointment. He said he was a massive bust. That’s not the same thing. I’ve never called Hardman a massive bust.

I’d love to see a huge investment of those picks in the DL. Like 3-4 DT/Edge rushers. We’re bound to hit on a few.

I love the linebackers on this team. I’m also encouraged by the young secondary. Just get some real pass rush from the DL, and we’re looking at a great defense.

I still think that leaves resources to grab another receiver, RT, and probably a late round running back. I don’t think we can realistically upgrade LT, but we can get by with OBJ as long as Wylie isn’t on the other side.

The future is bright boys.

I guarantee you've been harder on Hardman than your assessment of Ed Oliver.

Is MEH a bust judging by your standards?


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Umm yes absolutely.

Once again, you mistake my patience for development to mean that I'm a huge fan of a particular player/pick.

If your reading comprehension wasn't shit, I wouldn't have to explain that over and over.

I've been saying since the preseason that Pacheco was our best back and should be the starter.

I'm waiting to see what Veach does in the off-season with all the available FA RB's that will be in the market. Gotta believe we'll make a move there.

That’s fair. I’m not without bias and tend to be more critical of chiefs players.

We need OTs, WRs and DTs too! F**k it, I'd double dip at OT, edge and WR and try and pick up a middling DT in FA. LBs are good, secondary we're going to roll with, IOL is set, don't care about RBs.

This is Bills last year before cap hell hits and they're cutting people. They SHOULD have a better roster than us with a cheap, elite QB. Next year we'll see.

For a second rounder, you could categorize Hardman as a bust.

Probably wouldn't be considered a bust in the third round, but second eh. That's a pretty high pick

I just wouldn't spend any money on that position before OT, WR and Edge, and DT for that matter.

Then your expectations for a 2nd round pick are too high.

HR: DK Metcalf

Bust: Parris Campbell, JJ Arcega-Whiteside

Hardman obviously wasn't a HR, but he wasn't a bust either.

I hear that. I really do, but the fact that we are so incredibly one-dimensional on O right now is going to continue to be to our detriment. You have to be able to run the ball, and we simply can't purposefully line up and do it. This team needs a Kareem Hunt type RB in the worst way. I am still kinda hopeful that IP10 can get enough attempts to show what he can do this season.

Hardman has been pretty decent the last two games. Not every ****ing WR is perfect and runs perfect routes. Yeah he ****ed up that route late in the game but he's also had some ****ing nice routes and catches for big gains. He's not hurting this offense like CEH is.

KC’s #1 need next year is a left tackle. They will probably need to use multiple picks to trade up for one, so they won’t end up having 12 picks. WR is also a significant need yet again. DE and DT are absolutely needs, again, but using 3-4 picks there isn’t happening unless several of those are in the 6th or 7th.

People have false expectations about LT’s.

Orlando Brown again had a passable game. He was excellent the first half. Second half he got a penalty and got beat pretty badly a few times by a 1st ballot HOF.

A first rd LT isn’t gonna do any better. Eric Fisher got his ass kicked by Von Miller too.

People act like top 5 LTs are so easy to ****ing find too.

Yeah but they still need to address it in some capacity. Based off what he wants to be paid he is a liability to the team. I am not on Team Veach Sucks because he didn’t trade for or draft ______ that we knew in hindsight would be a good player. But he will need to make a big decision with Brown and I think we let him walk this year.

I’d love to upgrade over Brown at LT, but how realistic is that? Or is it more realistic to upgrade over Wylie and give Brown more help?

The issue I see right now is that both tackles need help. At least Brown can hold up on bull rushes and is a good run blocker (for whatever that’s worth). Wylie isn’t really good at anything.

Finding a starting quality LT where we’ll be picking doesn’t sound realistic. Finding a RT to be better than Wylie sounds a lot more likely.

Again, I’d love to get a great LT. I just don’t see the path to getting one without getting REALLY lucky.

I’ve found that Fisher was underrated when he was here and overrated now that he isn’t.

We're going to have to give it a go, because Brown and Veach we're already at an impasse with a new contract even before his less than stellar showing so far this season.

You fine with giving Brown $23 million a year? Because that’s what it will take. His performance is fine if he’s making $16 million a year. At $20+ million a year he’s absolutely not worth it.

Could have traded up a few spots last year for Darrisaw instead of trading for Brown. Darrisaw is a quickly ascending tackle and the spot would have been set at a cheap rate for the next 4-5 years. Overpaying for OBJ isn’t the answer.

Maybe I’m mistaken, but can’t we tag him for another year? That would be my route.

If someone blows us away with a trade offer, then take it. I don’t think that’s likely at this point though.

Another tag would be an automatic 20% bump from this year’s salary if I’m not mistaken. That puts him at roughly $20 million and eats up basically all of KCs salary cap in 2023.

Veach’s biggest task will be the pass rush. I’d like to see one big swing and a small one like Jerry Hughes as depth and then improve the offense with a RT and skill players in the draft.

Josh Allen is a gigantic pussy when he faces pressure. He breaks down and goes full Cassel and panics.

I’m not sure if this was supposed to be a sit back and chill year but there were some notable DE’s available in free agency but he went with the old washed veteran and rookie as his plan of attack. It’s still a question mark if he knows how to evaluate talent on Rb’s , Wr’s and De’s.

Lord. Every season we do this. After the draft it's, "Veach is a genius!" Then after the first loss, "fire Veach! He sux!" Then after the team gels around weeks 9-11 we go back to Veach is a genius.

Some of you guys really need to figure out how to stay on one side of the fence. At least for one whole season. Yeesh.

Well, he hasn't really drafted any good offensive skill position players so far.

He's had 5 drafts to do this. It's concerning.

That is a fair criticism, another one is saying they made a panic move for a LT that doesn't fit their system while never doing anything about RT.

Sooo, he apparently didn't draft any WRs/TEs and yet the roster is filled with them. he also had to rebuild the Ol in a single season. Pretty much got an A+ for that. Rebuilding the defense this year, mostly the secondary, and there's a lot of talent there.

And in the Veach era, the team has averaged 12.5 wins/season or something very much like that. 4 consecutive AFC-W titles, 3 consecutive AFCC titles, two SB appearances, 1 SB W.

But somehow Veach is doing it wrong. Okay I guess.

It's a fair criticism to say he didn't draft any good offensive skill guys cause well he didn't.

He used a 1 on a RB that blows and a 2 on a WR that is basically an athlete gadget. And another 2 on a WR that I won't judge this early.

But saying this team is full of WR's and TE's is kinda eh.

He needs to get Pat more actual weapons.

Not the JuJus and MVS's of the world.

Actual playmakers.

Once Kelce starts slowing down, who is going to be out there to help make plays for Pat?

That's my concern. A few years ago we had Hunt and Hill. Since losing those guys we haven't even come close to adequately replacing them.

And we've had four years to do that with Kareem and haven't.

That bothers me.

And Skyy and Pacheco can just as easily kill this narrative as early as the end of the season.

It's not like he's put a ton of resources into offensive skill positions either. CEH is the only real huge miss.

People said similar things about LB and CB going back to Dorsey. Then we started throwing more resources at those positions. Now those rooms are filled with young talent.

We will be focusing on WR, OT, and EDGE this offseason, and Veach will continue to make his harshest critics look silly.

Oh look it's the guy that coincidentally only pops up when the Chiefs lose.

Not very impressed with Noah Gray either. He never seems to get YAC, unlike Kelce.

I mean he's a 5th round pick.

Contributions from guys like that is nice.

I think for the most part the Chiefs have drafted well, the CEH miss hurts pretty bad because of positional value.

Like the Ravens look stupid because Patrick Queen has been a scrub, you take an off ball LB in the 1st 2 rounds dude better be good.

Noah is very JAG-worthy, but dude was a 5th rounder, so...

Less than 2 years ago the narrative on Howie Roseman was that he couldn't identity WR talent for shit, now the Eagles have DeVonta Smith and AJ Brown.

Most sweet players are drafted early in the draft. You won’t consistently get difference makers in the 4th round. Outliers happen sure, but you can’t bank on that

This is the problem when you get a Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill with a 3rd and 5th.

Expectations become pretty unrealistic.

Yeah pretty much.

Just go get DJ moore or burns. You aren’t likely gonna draft anyone that good

I don't think expecting a first round RB to be a solid player is asking to much...

Nobody is saying that he's not a huge miss, but it happens to the best of them. It's the narrative that people are trying to push because of it.

Just look at the Bills, who everybody wants to blow. They've spent a day 2 pick on a RB basically every year, and they still haven't found one.

A lot of that success can be contributed to the John Dorsey picks.

I can't believe this narrative is still a thing when we're a legit top 3 team, and basically have 3 Dorsey guys left on the entire roster, one of whom is Mahomes who Veach gets most of the credit for.

Well they were shit for a year and Smith was an easy pick to identify and they have a rookie QB c NT tact to be able to put a guy like AJ Brown.

The Chiefs are never a shit team under Andy. We have to work harder for talent

I understand, I'm just pointing out that things change quickly when you have an aggressive GM who will attack a weakness.

He said it as the Veach era of success not just this year. Jones, Kelce , Tyreek, Mahomes ( we know Veach had a hand in this) . That’s four all pro players. If Hunt wouldn’t have ****ed up he would have been another stud for us. All played important roles in winning a Super Bowl and AFC west titles.

Bills just got Gabriel Davis 2 years ago in the 4th. Also, Khalil Shakir was a 5th round pick this year and has performed better (so far) than our 2nd round receiver.

Yes, but one of the biggest factors in the Chiefs success is Veach completely rebuilding the defense that Dorsey left behind.

Veach was handed a lot of talent, yes, and he's had to turnover the roster while keeping this team a contender.

Considering we have managed to do that with just 3 of those guys left, it's safe to say that Veach is an important component to our success the last few years.

Those 3 picks just so happen to be our best players by far. Without Kelce, Mahomes, and Jones this team is complete shit. 5 years in and he’s yet to draft anyone of that caliber. Keep in mind Veach has now been in KC as the GM just about as long as Dorsey was.

LMAO

He has 12 more yards and a TD, mostly because the Bills had several injuries in their WR room so he got an opportunity last week.

You're such a dumb whiny ****.

So you’re hanging your hat on Veach turning the defense from complete shit to just okay?

Also, Veach has been credited with the OL rebuild. Well, the tackles are as bad as ever, so…

Yeah, always baffling that Dorsey gets railed and Veach is beyond reproach for some here. I mean, Dorsey is an absolute POS who also f**ked up plenty, but he kinda drafted some essential pieces for us.

I get the Veach worship to an extent but his track record is more chequered than some will admit. What I like is he seems to recognise mistakes and act to correct them (Clark aside).

Shakir has two 1,000 yard receivers ahead of him.

You’re a homer douche

The key factor in all of it is clearly Mahomes, and despite idiots like you pretending otherwise, Veach clearly gets a lot of the credit for that one.

It doesn't matter whether it's Andy, or Texas Tech, it is well documented that Veach got the ball rolling with Mahomes.

I'm so sorry that you have to suffer the Brett Veach era. I know these are dark times. Perhaps you should trade your Chiefs fandom in and become a member of Bills Mafia.

I'd literally trade you for a turd sandwich.

You're a butt****ing moron. It doesn't matter who he has in front of him. To say that he's "performed better" is a reach.

The sample size is ridiculously small, and the #s are basically the same.

The Chiefs went out and got 2 veteran WRs who were instantly slotted into starting positions. Khalil Shakir would not be getting any marks snaps than Moore is you dumb ****.

He did a fantastic job rounding out the defense in 2019 which was a big reason for our SB. No question about it.

But his inability to draft good players at skill positions, specifically offense is hurting us right now.

If any of those picks in the last 5 years could have just given us a legit receiver, running back, RT or edge then we probably beat Buffalo yesterday.

If you had to list the 3 most important guys in the building for our success you'd probably say:

- Mahomes
- Reid
- Veach (for his role in getting Mahomes) or Hunt (for bringing in Reid)

Right? I think that's absolutely how it should be. The guy who wins you games, the guy who puts him in a position to succeed, and the guys who got those guys.

In all honesty I think Veach's legacy starts now. If he effectively builds a roster that is enough to win a SB with a QB earning top dollar, that's when he's elevated alongside Reid and Mahomes. If not, he's like every GM, important, possibly very good, but a distant 3rd of 4th in the pecking order of who is responsible for this golden era.

Mahomes and Reid are the reason we're a top 2 team in the league.

Take them out and we're the Saints.

I thought our skill players were pretty good yesterday. Kelce and Juju had great days over 100+ yards, Hardman had a couple of good catches and a TD, MVS had a TD but a bad penalty took it away and Moore flashed.

We need a pass rush more than anything. It’s a big problem

Very much this. I don't know if he's the best in the NFL, but he's done an amazing job keeping us near the top while turning over the roster. If we can get a little more healthy, we're going to be pretty damn good.

We just lost to Buffalo by 4 with Pat having a sub-Pat game. I think everyone should let that sink in.

Agree mostly. Hardman seems to have reached his ceiling. Romo made a good observation at one point about Hardman not flattening out his route to help a scrambling Mahomes. Kelce is the polar opposite. (As was Hill.) This team needs a true #1 WR.

Interestingly, Dorsey has been with the Lions for going on two years. I'm not sure what to make of that, but thought it was interesting.

That and our OT's are BAD.

Regarding the pass rush, that was one of the things Veach identified as a problem after last season...

I think Veach's answer for RT post-Schwartz was Niang.

And he's a combination of suckage/made of glass.

I'm sorry, but this is just a stupid way to look at this.

That loss was not on Veach. Mahomes and Andy take more of the blame for that.

I also completely reject this idea that there's an "inability to draft good players at skill positions".

Can we please give guys like Skyy and Pacheco more than 6 games? JFC.

Those guys have clealry shown flashes, and the talent is there. The opportunities will come. It just feels like a complete lack of patience with many of you. It's as if you've already written those guys off. ****ing relax and allow things to play out.

Agree 100 percent.

Lol, nice hot take. Like we should expect the GM to just pull an entire top-10 caliber OL, complete with a pair of All-Pro OTs your n a single draft class. Okay.

He also just pulled a All-Pro C and a G out of the draft, and signed another premier level G. Rebuilt 3/5th of the OL in a few weeks. Do you guys have any idea how incredibly good that is? And OBJ might or might not end up being our LT down the road, but let’s be honest: he’s a huge improvement over who we had in that SB loss at TB.

Bottom line this OL is light years better than that abomination, and our demolishing of TB proved it. Don’t tell me this OL isn’t good enough. That’s job BS. They aren’t perfect, but no one in the NFL has perfect. And there’s still some upside to be seen with these guys.

And I have news for you guys: there no Travis Kelce 2.0 waiting out there. We aren’t going to find another HOF TE in next year’s draft. Or the next one. Or ever. He’s like Tyreek; there is no substitute.

What is going to happen is Andy/veach will find two guys to replace most of what Kelce has been doing. And that’s literally the best we can expect. Come on, you should know better than to think you can just draft another Travis or Tyreek. That’s just stupid.

And what idiot thinks any team can just take 12 picks and draft perfect fits at every position of need? Show me a GM that has consistently did that.

The best GMs ever maybe hit on a third of their picks.

So since Veach became GM he’s rebuilt the defense attorney on every level, and last season he rebuilt the IOL from scratch. Yes, he reached for Hardman, but at the time he was scrambling to potentially replace Tyreek’s ability to take the top off the defense, right? And Hardman may not be Tyreek (stupid to think he was going to), but he definitely can do that, and he’s becoming a complete WR.

Lastly, in 2019,Veach put that roster together with about 30% from the draft, 30% from free agency/waivers, and about 25% from trades. Give or take a few percentage points here and there.

Veach has drafted fairly well, and in some cases extremely well. He managed to figure out how to sign Pat to a gigantism deal that’s also somehow team-friendly, ditto CJ, as well as extending Kelce. He turned Trading Hill not 5 picks, several of whom are promising.

You guys really need to look around the league, or jeez, just look at the shit show we had right in KC before Andy showed up.

CP is filled with a lot of whiny spoiled brats lately.

You would think we got our ass kicked the way people want to blame Veach for that loss.

That wasn't an issue of us just not having the talent/team to go toe to toe with the best team in the NFL.

We had that game, even with all the injuries and Gay's suspension. Not to mention we've all acknowledged that we're in a bit of a transition period, while the Bills are all-in.

How the **** do you come out of that game bitching about Veach and not Andy/Pat?

Well, the game did magnify some pretty glaring issues with the roster building. I'll give him a pass on the WR position since that was always going to be a multi year rebuild after pivoting to trading Hill instead of extending him, but the OT and DE positions have been issues for long enough and they're still hampering us badly.

It's because stupid people fail to understand nuisance.

Being able to evaluate talent and being a good General Manager is two different things. Dorsey couldn't handle the 2nd thing and that's why he's not a lackey for a shitty Lions team.

LT's and edge players get drafted early in the draft and or signed for pretty large contracts.

We've not really done either in a while specifically there.

FYP, Autocorrect is an asshole

Are you like this after every loss?

LMAO There's a lot wrong with that post. Not sure if it's on purpose.

I remember a certain football message board that had an absolute hard on for Queen and those same draft gurus lauded Baltimore for drafting him. So now he’s a scrub you say? Say it ain’t so.

Buffalo hasn’t drafted early in the draft either for a few years and still has a good LT and a fearsome DL to show for it.

Also, Christian Darrisaw went with pick #23 last year. He could have easily been had instead of making a panic move for OBJ.