ChiefsPlanet - Cardinals ***Offical 2010 STL Cardinals Baseball Thread ***

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***Offical 2010 STL Cardinals Baseball Thread *** (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221186)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 7045651)

1B: Pujols
2B: Descalso/Greene
SS: Ryan/Greene
3B ??/Freese
LF: Holliday
CF: Rasmus
RF: Craig
4th OF: Jay
C: Molina

SP: Wainwright
SP: Garcia
SP: Carpenter (Two years left)
SP: Hole
SP: Walters/Ottavino/Lynn/Boggs

We need to do something to get a power bat at 3rd. If we got a guy like 2008 Troy Glaus there, this offense would be good enough

We need to DFA Miles, Schumaker, Feliz, Suppan, and Lohse.

Suppan's gone. I read somewhere they were interested in bringing Feliz back. Even though Miles is LaRussa's favorite player ever, he didn't do an awful job. He was mediocre.

Miles was horrendous, he was buoyed by a ricockulous BABIP.

I like where your head is at, BRC, but I don't know if I want to stunt Craig's growth by tossing in Hawpe. He's far more talented than Jay and he has legitimate power. I'm telling him that the RF job is his to lose.

Re-signing Westbrook to a modest deal is fine. Lohse absolutely must go, as should Miles, Schumaker, Stavinoha, McDougal, and yes, probably Little Sweat. I have no desire to sign .240 hitting Brandon Inge in his age 34 year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by veist (Post 7053111)

Dunno if anyone caught this so from Miklasz's twitter:

So I guess that is the "plan."

Craig is already a 20-25 HR guy if you give him 500 ABs.

That said, Mo is absolutely right that we need 15-20 HR production from 2nd and 3rd base and at least passable defense. This year, those two positions, along with short, have hit at a replacement level, and 2nd and 3rd have fielded below that level.

I like the idea of going after Jose Lopez at 2b/3b.

If Freese is healthy, Lopez plays 2b. If Freese is hurt, Lopez plays 3b and Descalso plays 2b. Lopez is an solid defensive 2b and while his OBP sucks, he has some sock in his bat and doesn't K too much. He'd be a very nice fit for the 6 hole.

Skip is a 5th OFer. For the love of all things sacred, get that man off 2b. He simply can't play it. God love him for giving it his best, but LaRussa set him up to fail now its time to put him back where he belongs.

I'd also like to see Craig in RF. Jay's an adequate 4th OFer but not much more. His defense doesn't profile to CF and his offense doesn't profile to a corner OF position. He's a taylor-made 4th OFers (so we'll probably convert him to SS soon). Craig's hit too much at the minor league level to not be a solid ML hitter. He has improved significantly over the last couple of months and I think he'll be a legitimate .830-.850 OPS guy if given the opportunity. He's going to K more than I thought he would, but he'll produce far more than his salary level and we desperately need that right now.

Or there's the nuclear option:

Talk to the Angels about a Pujols for Weaver/Morales/Kendrick type deal. They probably laugh at you and hang up, but that trade turns the Cardinals into the NL favorites, IMO.

I never thought I'd say it, but if (a) we trade him to an AL team, and (b) rape the shit out of them in the process, I could live with moving Albert.

Sadly, I don't think we can keep him on the roster and remain competitive.

Goddamn MLB for not having a salary cap. 4321

Quote:

Originally Posted by veist (Post 7053111)

Dunno if anyone caught this so from Miklasz's twitter:

So I guess that is the "plan."

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 7053130)

Here's the entire piece, which appeared in the PD yesterday:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colum...285956713.html

Quote:

The Cardinals are down to their final series, four games against the visiting Colorado Rockies. And then Busch Stadium will go dark for the winter. The reality is depressing. For a town that's so passionately in love with baseball, this is a melancholy time.

We'll head into the offseason with a big load of frustration, eternally perplexed by an underachieving team and its strange 2010 season. And the torment lasted until the end. Over the last month, the Cincinnati Reds gave the Cardinals a chance to make a move by going 9-14 in three-plus weeks. But the Cardinals had no response, losing 13 of 21 games through one September stretch.

This is not a terrible Cardinals team. This is not a hopeless disaster. The Cardinals will finish with a winning record. This isn't a Pirates type of season. These aren't the Kansas City Royals or Washington Nationals. But the Cardinals' decline was bitterly disappointing for a simple reason: There are high standards in place here. The organization prides itself on winning and competing in the postseason.

And Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak gets it. We may be disappointed in some of Mozeliak's work this season, but I give him credit for his willingness to take the heat instead of trying to run away from a season gone wrong.

Mozeliak was talking to a friend the other day. And the friend, trying to cheer the GM up, offered a supportive comment: Your team will still end up with a winning season. And what the heck, even the best teams occasionally come up short. He asked Mozeliak: So why is everyone so angry? Fans and media shouldn't be so upset, so critical.

Mozeliak said he politely rejected the premise. He told the friend: Everyone in the organization should be dissatisfied. And every Cardinal should be willing to accept the criticism that comes with an inadequate season. Mozeliak's message: If you have standards, then you don't attempt to rationalize defeat. And you shouldn't feel sorry for yourself.

And I respect that attitude. It tells me that Mozeliak is more determined than ever to make this right. He'll carry this searing disappointment into the offseason, and that can only be a positive thing.

"We will use a lot of resources to right this ship," Mozeliak said.

Mozeliak cited "cash, players, energy, time ... we're going to make sure that we don't have to go back and see another season like we had this year."

And what about raising the payroll?

Mozeliak has initiated discussions with Cardinals Chairman Bill DeWitt Jr.

"I certainly think it's an option," Mozeliak said. "If we do have to increase it to some level, we're prepared to do it."

What do the Cardinals need to jump back into the postseason in 2011?

The pitching is in relatively firm shape, but they'll have to come up with a No. 5 starter if Jake Westbrook can't be re-signed. And the Cardinals will probably try to spruce up their lefthanded relief.

Mozeliak is more concerned about boosting the offense. The Cardinals obviously need a higher onbase percentage in the leadoff spot. And the GM wants to deepen the lineup by adding, in his words, "a couple of guys who can hit 15 to 20 homers" in support of Albert Pujols and Matt Holliday.

"We need to have more threats in the lineup and not rely so much on the No. 3 and No. 4 hitters," Mozeliak said.

He also suggested he'd be on the lookout to add a No. 2 catcher who can supply more offense.

Mozeliak listed two other priorities: cleaning up the middle defense (obviously second base) and the overall poor base running.

"This was not a good year for the Cardinals defensively, and we've got to do better," he said. "And our base running was very sloppy. We ran into a lot of outs. And if you have the offense that we had, you can't sustain that."

I'm not sure how the Cardinals plan to improve their base-running approach unless they bring in hitters who are also smart runners. But in a recent column I posed this question: If manager Tony La Russa returns in 2011, will he have the same coaching staff? Should there be some fresh voices to sharpen and fine-tune the instruction?

As for the decision on La Russa, Mozeliak expects to have a quick resolution. If La Russa wants to retire, or leave, the Cardinals want to know soon, to give themselves enough time, and options, for finding a successor. There will be competition for managers, with multiple clubs seeking to fill expected vacancies.

Cincinnati was no fluke. With their collection of young talent, the Reds should be an even tougher opponent in 2011. And the Astros and Cubs are likely to win more games next season. Yes, the Brewers face a more difficult challenge, and the Pirates remain stuck in the rebuilding mode, but the NL Central should be more competitive in 2011.

This was a down season for the Cardinals — in record and in mood. But the situation could be much worse. The Cardinals will take a robust nucleus into 2011. And that's reassuring.

I'm certain most non-playoff teams would welcome the challenge of building on a core that includes Pujols, Holliday, Gold Glove catcher Yadier Molina, emerging center fielder Colby Rasmus and three superb starting pitchers in Adam Wainwright, Chris Carpenter and Jaime Garcia.

"We know what we have to fix," Mozeliak said. "Now we have to push the right buttons this offseason. But we can be very good next year."

After four more games, the lights will go out at Busch Stadium.

But the lights will be burning brightly inside the team's offices. The Cardinals have a lot of work to do this winter.

Another interesting thought is Jacoby Elsbury.

The Sox are going to have to deal him and probably deal him cheap. I wonder if you couldn't sell them on a Shelby Miller for Papelbon and Elsbury deal. Craig might draw some interest from them if necessary, but they've devalued Paps and Elsbury so far that I think Miller could get both of them, especially if you sell it as a salary dump to allow them to keep Carl Crawford from going to the Yankees.

Hell, go ahead and go through with the Pujols trade and send Molina to the D-Rays for one of their myriad of pitching prospects or Ben Zobrist.

Just blow this MFer up. Build around Wainwright, Rasmus and Holliday. Yes, I'm aware I just dumped our latin players, but it's because the latin contingent mailed in this season and I'm just tired of it.

DJLN's Stupid Playstation Creation:

C - Steven Hill/Brian Anderson
1b - Kendry Morales
2b - Howie Kendrick
SS- Brendan Ryan/Zobrist
3b - Freese/J. Lopez/Zobrist
OF - Holliday
OF - Rasmus
OF - Elsbury

SP - Wainwright
SP - Weaver
SP - Carpenter
SP - Garcia
SP - Lohse (cause nobody's gonna take this POS off our hands with that contract).

MR -- Franklin, Motte, McClellan, Boggs, Salas, Miller
Closer -- Papelbon

Lineup:

Elsbury
Kendrick
Holliday
Morales
Rasmus
Freese
Hill
Ryan
P

Manager: Any mother****er that isn't Tony LaRussa. Gimme Freddi Gonzalez, a guy that got fired for daring to bench his superstar shortstop for jogging after a ball he literally kicked into right field.

That's a pennant winner, isn't it?

It would never come together and it seems too easy (so I'm probably overvaluing Miller and Pujols), but it works in my Playstation world so I like it.

We don't blow chit up until 2012. No need to start over next season. We have a good core next year to build around.

Trade Pujols and Molina? Bad idea. Really bad idea and as much as DJ wants it to not happen, Pujols will be resigned.

Fuc# trading Miller. The man is going to win a Cy Young and be a #1 pitcher. You don't trade that for anything, nothing, nada. You can never get your return for a #1 pitcher.

You will never get equal value for Albert Pujols. The thought of dealing him should be anathema.

I don't know why we'd want to go after Papelbon. He seems to be on the decline rather severely. His fastball has gotten worse every year that he's been in the majors, and he no longer has a reliable secondary pitch.

Jacoby Ellsbury is really a 3 WAR guy. Career 750 OPS er. Do you want that guy clogging up a COF spot?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 7054453)

Would I like a guy that's still under team control for 3 seasons who is capable of putting up a .370 OBP and 70 stolen bases leading off and playing stellar RF for us? Sure, why the hell not?

This team needs speed and it needs it badly. It also needs at least 1 effort guy and Ellsbury is certainly that.

Ellsbury's a perfect fit for the lineup and would do a lot of things for our offense. I like OPS as a stat, but it grossly undervalues OBP and the value of the stolen base.

Papelbon's a closer question, but I don't think he's done. I think he truly wants out of Boston and I think the strain of the Massholes has finally done him in. I think he'd flourish with a move to the NL and a chance to get the hell out of the cesspool.

The thought of paying $30 million a season for a declining slugger while ownership holds the line at a $95 million payroll is a hell of a lot more painful than the thought of watching Cardinals games without a slugger that can't be bothered to run out ground balls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 7054414)

Yeah, I mean why get a start now when you can wait a year too long and do what we did in 2007. That worked out well.

And my proposed team is better than anything we can put together in 2011 with the parts we presently have in place, at least not without expanding payroll by $20 million and ol' Dollar Bill has let us know that won't be happening. It's not blowing anything up, it's restructuring and re-loading.

This team is rotting from the inside and I don't know how that could've been made more obvious than this season.

Miller's a 20 year old with a solid (though unspectacular) season in Low-A under his belt. There's no such thing as a reliable A-ball pitcher. They simply don't exist until AA (and even then, injuries are so common among starters that they shouldn't be considered until they're throwing meaningful pitches at the big-league level). If you can deal Miller for a cost-controlled part that immediately improves your ballclub, you do it.

DJ,

The Cardinals havr already saif they will increase payroll if they sign Pujols. Payroll will not stay at $100 million.

Blowing up a team with a core of Pujols, Holliday, Molina, Rasmus, Carp, Waino and Garcia would be very stupid.

Moving Pujols and Molina is the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Yes, if you are looking at it from a purely business perspective it would be nice to have Pujols sign a 4-5 year deal, but that's not gonna happen. The surplus value he would give you for the first 4-5 years of that deal will far outweigh the deficit you'll have at the ass end of that contract.

I like the idea of going after Jose Lopez or even a Ty Wigginton as an extra bat, but all things being equal, this team is not in bad shape.

We need a 3B a 2B a #5 and a Loogy. The #5 pitcher can easily be filled from within. We should have all the reserve/utility roles taken care of with young, cost controlled players.

Hell, it remains to be seen if the Tigers will pick up Jhonny Peralta's option. He's another guy we could look at to play third.