But but but that guy had a right to a trial.

Are you kinda sorta forgetting he shot 2 cops during this cabin standoff?

Yup. It's amazing the amount of slack these cops are being given in the face of absolute incompetence over the last week.

http://audio4.radioreference.com/71138770.mp3

I heard something about "departed" ...

It's pretty smart. Ended this shit as fast as possible.

after what the lapd has done in the past week how could he put the guns down even if he wanted to?

They shot up two Asian ladies.

Something is wrong here
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Only if they're not HIS kids.

Because the argument isn't even about this guy. It's about a massive principle that our society is built on. There are situations where innocent people are assumed to be guilty. Doing something that implies guilt like running doesn't always mean the person committed the crime.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying this guy is innocent. But it's not about him. It's about doing the legal thing 100% of the time so it never costs somebody who is innocent. The justice system is there so decisions are made without emotion or prejudice people. You are saying it's cool that people both prejudice and emotional make a decision on how this guy should go out.

If someone else gets hurt due to this it's horrible and I will be very upset to hear it. But there are things that need defending no matter what, and right by trial is one of them. By risking their lives, the police are essentially fighting for that right. This isn't about this guy, its about our way as a justice system. No matter what the circumstances that shouldn't change.

AP is reporting that no one ever tried to emerge from the cabin.

Some people are shitty at their job, I'm sure you know (if you work). But I think overall the police are trying to do the right thing in most cases.

**** no I'm not.


At you forgetting the cops shot up a, couple of innocent Asian ladies delivering newspapers while trying to kill this guy?
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Every officer involved with those shootings should be fired and never allowed to work LE again. But sooner or later the criminal has to take some responsibility here.

You know how they got John Wilkes Booth?

What he would do as an individual... and what is good and right in the eyes of the law are two very different things. saying that I recognize the law doesn't preclude me from deciding to break it.

True. Emotion takes over at that point. But I'M NOT A SWORN OFFICER OF THE LAW. You know someone we count on to be better than us. Someone we count on to uphold our justice system
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His trial started and ended today, by him killing more police while he was running from them. He knew what he was doing, and wanted it this way. You know people can decline fighting for their innocence, he did that over the course past week.

No shit Sherlock.

He could have surrendered publicly though, before killing ANOTHER cop today.

I agree with you here but who knows overall. What if somebody really is trying to cover something? You just can't throw away the workings of our system, no matter the circumstances. There are going to be times when you can't get a guy in alive, but you should be doing everything you can to prevent that.

I'm just trying to make sense of this, dude. Im not siding with the cops. But if they had him surrounded and he killed 2 cops and opened a shitload of fire on them, at that point they can sorta kill him. I've never seen them ya know...torch a house to accomplsh that though.

Being shitty at your job is no excuse for shooting innocent people. That is attempted manslaughter at the least, and they will never do jail time. ****ing shitty cop apologist.

You summed up my thoughts perfectly.

Thank you
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I hear something about gas, or get the gas.
I also heard **** on CBS like 4 times. The anchor apologizing. The news producer was shitting is pans when that happened, 4times. Lol

No, they SHOULD be sent to prison.

And again, this isn't about him. It's about how our system works. The cops don't get to decide who gets a trial and who doesn't. It can be a shitty situation sometimes, but it shouldn't matter.

Then let them possibly kill him in custody?
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They did. They will be paid. No doubt.

That doesn't take away the fact Dorner wanted to die. He said so. He went out just like he wanted. It was his last wish, and it was granted.

yes they can in a gun fight.

Burning the house down?
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Stopped watching coverage around 3 pm and just turned it back on.

Crazy they are burning the cabin.

Cool well you continue to be vocal on charges needing to be brought on the officers that stopped him today. You'll be a popular guy.

Stop the sanity.

NBC just said a law enforcement agent heard a single gunshot from inside the cabin before it caught on fire.

And I think they tried. He could have drove himself to a police station and turned himself in. When he makes statements that he will be armed and go out shooting, all that legal system stuff kinda goes by the wayside.

Jesus ****ing Christ dude?!?!

Are you ****ing reeruned?!?!

You expect him to get a trial while never seeing a cop?!?! Maybe they can just do it over Skype?!?!

he asked to be burnt alive?


Actually he asked for someone to apologize for falsely ruining his life. Then he would quit
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And I wouldn't blame the cops under a number of circumstances for Dorner ending up dead. Obviously the guy could just run outside and start shooting. Nobody would blame the cops for shooting him then. But we are arguing under the idea that the cops have the right at this point to kill him and that's what myself and others are disagreeing with.

Yeah the burning the house down is just bizarre. Seems clearly intentional to me as well. Just a crazy situation.

So you didn't want him to surrender?

Dudes gone full reerun.

It's not an excuse. It happened.

The mayor of LA has some seriously gigantic ears. He could put out that cabin fire from where he stands just by flapping them.

I'm guessing Dorner set the fire and then shot himself to make it appear the police burned him to death.

are you?

The FBI should have, IMO, taken all of this over quite some time ago. Local sheriff, police, especially ANYONE related to the lapd should have taken a back seat.

laps obviously just wanted him dead.
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Do we have proof the cops burned the house down to kill him? Do they deserve a fair trial or are we just going to assume they're guilty (highly probable).

If the guy does something that forces the cops to shoot him then I don't have an issue with it. But at some point in this thread it became almost a hypothetical of if the cops should be allowed to kill him just to stop the risk of more things. About the argument with the fire. That's what I have an issue with. It may suck, but unless they are in immediate danger with this guy killing him is not right. And when I say not right, I don't say it with any sympathy towards the guy, I say it about our system and protecting it.

Cops don't have the right to be judge and jury. In order to protect this, you can't give it to them ever, not even in an obvious situation.

Sounds plausible.

This is 'Merica, why is he speaking in Mexican?

He ruined his own life. He made his own decisions. Many people have been fired, doesn't mean you go kill the families of others because you are mad.

Ahhh... now he is talking that Mexican jibber jabber, now we can tune away.

/CNN

Not to any of the police involved.

He would have had to get out of California, and made it a federal case, which wasn't happening.
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Yup LMAO

I agree.

But you don't burn the house down.

That isn't how our justice system is supposed to work
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I don't disagree with any of that, but thus guy had several days where he could have turned himself over to another jurisdiction if he wanted a trial. He didn't. Sooner or later he has to take some responsibility for his own actions.

That's correct. They deserve it as well and the public may well convict them and never turn back. But they will have their day in actual court even if something comes of it.

This is about cops not getting the ability to be judge and jury, because if you give it now you come into a grey area at some point. Some day a corrupt cop could use it, or an honest cop kill a person who appeared guilty but wasn't.

Well then your expectations were completely wrong. This is a local and state issue not a federal one.

How would he know they were saying to burn it down on TV?


Coincidence? Come on man.
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Just like someone else said, how do we know who started the fire? By saying it was the police is jumping to conclusions, thus saying the police don't get a "fair trial" about telling their side of how the fire started.

Ehh I'm not a political person. Don't really care. I believe this guy died a death he deserved. Most people deserve a fair trial. He didn't. Their are exceptions for everything, he is an exception.

then he can't turn himself in.

Lapd wanted him dead.

Something is wrong there
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Sad when I have to get updates from Anonymous twitter feeds instead of actual news sites. LAPD is blocking media access. Government censorship is always wrong.

No doubt. But in the end those actions by him can't transfer the power of the justice system over to the police. This is a situation where it's pretty unfair with the amount of things this guy has done. But to me, in the end, this is about protecting our ideals.

Where in the Constitution does it say "You should not burn down a house to capture a suspect?"

I guess Jason thinks Bin Laden should have gotten a fair trial. Damn those SEALS

You do realize that the FBI has many offices in Cali don't you? He did not have to leave the state. All he had to do was go to a news station and he would have had a televised escort.

How was he getting to another jurisdiction?


Dude they shot up a truck that didn't match the description. Tie up a Honda ridgeline.


Something was off the whole time.

IMO at that point the feds should have stepped in
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Again, hundreds of rounds were shot into a wooden structure housing a propane tank. Buy into the theory that the one guy on scene who was responsible for making overall tactical decisions just happened to be near a mic at the precise moment that he decided to voice his plan if you want. I'm not.

:spock: I'm pretty sure Bin Laden isn't covered under the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. U.S. Citizen Dorner is.

Nope. He was not a us citizen.

Are you stupid?


I'm talking about the fundamental rights we all are supposed to have.

Guilty or innocent.
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I addressed that point. Those that have already convicted the cops are just as wrong. Circumstantial evidence shouldn't be enough. But I think the fire argument was more a hypothetical than considered concrete. The cops will get their day in court just like the other guy should. Not for his benefit, but for ours. This guy is guilty, but maybe his trial will shine the light on more guilty of other crimes. Really it's not about this guy at all.

But you are correct, those that have already convicted the cops are using a double-standard. I just don't think anyone has. I think some are very suspicious, but I don't think anyone has convicted them yet.

Again, I don't think anyone had a problem with it when they did it to Booth...maybe the south had a problem with it.

How do you know he had no communication to the outside world? I'm sure he did. He loved the attention he gained.

LMAO Wow.

Dude he had obviously been stuck in big bear for days.

I can see what you are saying but I don't see the means he had to make it happen
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No, his actions can't transfer power, but he certainly can give up those rights.

Scanner radio archives for peoples
https://archive.org/details/DornerStandoff2

If Bin Laden wanted to turn himself in they would have taken him alive just like Dorner could have. They are both killers who got the justice they deserved.

Would he need to know that to set a fire, shoot himself, and expect people to think the cops set the fire? Even if the cops played innocent and didnt say anything about starting a fire, people would still suspect they did, even if they claimed otherwise in their official statement.

Im just playing devils advocate here. But you shouldnt make statements like that when theres such an incredibly easy response.

The homeowners son said there was no TV, internet, phones.
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There are numerous people all over Twitter who heard the police saying they were going to deploy a "burner" before the fire started through scanner traffic. The Radio Reference site had about 25,000 people on that scanner feed before they all got shut down.

I guess starting fires to capture suspects is a pretty good method. :thumb:

dude, again, the cops said " lets burn it" "get the gas" then made the media leave. Then the house burns.


Could be a coincidence. If so it's the greatest coincidence I've ever heard of
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It talks about right to trial by jury. If you dispose of a suspect, no matter what he has done, when a way of getting him out alive is possible, you have to do it. If the cops kill him in defense of themselves then fine. If they kill him because he has already killed people or may again, that's taking away that right. You can say this guy risked that right when he kept fighting. It's not about this guy, its about our system.