I would agree for the most part, especially on the Welker play. I do however think that while you can't win with just your QB, its pretty damn hard to win without your QB stepping up and making plays when it matters. I have always liked Manning as well, but he has gotten tight in some of his big games while Brady has had ones when he hasn't, which has helped his team win those big games.

It's a situation where you need a lot to happen, but a QB making big plays in the final 5 minutes seems to be on the top of that list now. But as you said, in the NFL and NHL, as well as the MLB, you need things to go your way along with making plays at the right time to take advantage of it. The QB also has a bigger chance to help lose the game based on the decisions being in their hands late in the game.

ok I 100% know you need an elite QB to be a consistent winner in the NFL

and QB play wins big games

but Tom Brady has never had clutch moments in NFL games...nothing more than Peyton Manning

getting his team into field goal range on dump off passes so Vinatieri can make pressure kicks didn't impress me then, and doesn't impress me now

and since spygate Peyton Manning has WAY MORE "clutch" playoff games than Tom Brady

but no one can see that because 10 years ago Tom Brady teams won 3 super bowls

it infuriates me

Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick had postseason games this year that are better than anything Manning or Brady have done in years...if not ever

Russell Wilson against the Falcons was one of the most amazing clutch performances I have ever seen...

when they got the ball back down 6 I had no doubt in my mind he'd drive them down and take the lead. None.

That dude is going to be the best NFL QB for the next decade.

I just answered your question by the way.

My definition of clutch NFL QB is Russell Wilson.

First, SR asked if I had weighed in with "my" opinion.

I am not going to sell PFF or fans (who may or may not be dumbasses) as my opionion.

Second, while I think PFF is a good resourse, I don't treat them as gospel.

For instance, I have no clue how they rated Jovan Belcher, while he was a liability in pass coverge, I know from watching that his contributions were a factor in DJ becoming the player he has become.

I'd bet he had a pretty low PFF score anyway.

It didn't mean "nothing." He played well.

Doesn't mean he's a QB anyone should trade for.

I agree with your point about Brady getting a pass by the media on his recent play in big games, but I think you are exaggerating a little when you talk about Brady's big plays during the Patriots SB years. There have been times when Brady has gotten the ball back and you knew the Patriots were going to win.

when has this EVER happened in a big game?

I remember him dinking and dunking his way down the field to set up a 45 yard Vinatieri field goal to beat the Rams.

in fact, the only time I've been inspired by Tom Brady and his postseason play was the game against the Raiders...I thought he played like a true badass that game and they should have lost if not for the tuck rule (and lets not forget how AMAZING Adam Vinatieri was)...

Tom Brady is a fantastic QB. Great.

But this whole idea people have had over the years that he is a better postseason QB than Peyton Manning is a pure myth and totally untrue. And it has ALWAYS been untrue.

Both of them are about the same when it comes to the playoffs...just because Manning's teams haven't won as much as Tom's doesn't mean anything other than Tom has had better teams.

One of Manning's issues perception-wise is that he has made some negative plays in big games, even if you want to say that Brady has dinked and dunked his way to big moments. I agree that some of that has to do with the team around him, but while I agree that Tom has not done much since his great teams have left him, I think Manning has done things to hurt himself with the playoff perception.

People expect Manning to be all world. Brady is allowed to be pedestrian and is considered all world.


I hate the whole "clutch" argument. It makes no sense to me

See I just think pedestrian is a bit of an exaggeration. Don't get me wrong, I really like Peyton Manning. May be my favorite non-Chief player to watch. On top of that Brady has always annoyed me. So I agree that Manning is expected to be all-world or he gets blame, but I also have seen him do things in the playoffs he deserves blame for. Like I said, some of that comes from having to force things since his roster was never really built to win big games without him being perfect. That goes double for the early days when he faced the Pats, prior to the rule changes where Ty Law could hold WR's at will.

1. Kansas City -- The Chiefs traded for a legitimate starting quarterback in deposed 49er Alex Smith and that move alone could make it a successful offseason in K.C. Nothing much else matters if you don't get the QB question answered, as teams like the Chiefs, Bills and Cardinals have proven so vividly in recent years.

But it's not just the Smith acquisition that we like. Kansas City re-signed No. 1 receiver Dwayne Bowe, franchised offensive tackle Branden Albert, secured the services of one of the best cornerbacks available in free agency in Sean Smith for a reasonable price, added a second cornerback who at least has had past success in the AFC in Dunta Robinson, and picked up solid, dependable components like receiver Donnie Avery, defensive lineman Mike DeVito, tight end Anthony Fasano and offensive lineman Geoff Schwartz.

Topping it off, the Chiefs wisely gave themselves another intriguing option at quarterback, handing former Saints backup Chase Daniel a three-year deal worth $10 million to be their fallback plan behind Smith. If you're keeping score, Kansas City upgraded at multiple positions on offense and added significantly to the secondary on a defense that has several Pro Bowl talents in Tamba Hali, Eric Berry and Justin Houston. With the No. 1 pick in the draft still to come, and offensive tackles Luke Joeckel and Eric Fisher both on the radar screen, Andy Reid's opening statement in Kansas City should encompass considerably more than 2-14 in 2013.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...#ixzz2NpWFWr34

I really don't find anything intriguing about Chase at all.

oh man sports illustrated said it, it must be true

Oh PFF said it must be true.

Unless it's about Alex Smith

No, they got Alex Smith right. He had a solid year. Nothing wrong with his performance.

They also got his game against the Giants dead on.

http://i.imgur.com/0zXesdn.jpg

I agree, he was atrocious against the Giants

What was kaepernick against green bay? Wilson against Atlanta? I'm very curious

I bet Kaep was an 8+ against green bay and Wilson at least a 6 against Seattle

Sean Smith’s base deal: Three years, $16.5 million
Posted by Mike Florio on March 17, 2013, 7:12 PM EDT
Titans Dolphins Football AP

The 2013 cornerback market is worse than previously believed.

The contract signed by Sean Smith with the Chiefs widely was reported as being worth $18 million over three years, for a modest average of $6 million per year. In reality, it’s even more modest than that.

Per a source with knowledge of the contract, it has a base value of only $16.5 million, which equates to an average of $5.5 million annually.

Escalators and incentives can push the number to $18 million.

Also, only $7.465 million is fully guaranteed. The 2014 base salary of $3.45 million is guaranteed for injury only, and it becomes fully guaranteed on February 7.

So, basically, the top of the cornerback market is $5.5 million per year.


I know Clay hates that last line

Holy balls, we got him for a song.

Like I've said about Smith all along - more often than not he's going to be a solid QB for us, often even a good one.

There will be 14-18 teams in the NFL with worse QB situations than us for the duration of Smith's time here, IMO.

But man oh man was he terrible in that Giants game. And I think we'll have to be prepared for one or two of those every year.

I hope not.

Yup, that's a nice contract.

I know Clay hates the signing, but I don't see how you can. When you have Javier Arenas as your present #2 and you have a chance to get a guy with Smith's talent for a damn reasonable deal that can easily be escaped after year 1 - what's the question?

Maybe they can't unlock it and maybe he'll still suck - oh well. We know that Javier Arenas isn't the answer and this kid could be. My hat is off to the Chiefs for trying.

Even solid QB play is enough for this team to be in playoff contention. We had some of the worst QB play of All-Time the last 2 years. 3-4 extra wins easily with even BELOW AVERAGE QB play last year instead of abysmal.

Not making any excuses for him but it was raining bad most of that game.

Those one or two games a year will include playoff teams that play championship calibre defense.

Those teams can take away the run and put the game on the QB's arm, and Smith is not a QB that can carry a team.

The clips of him getting constantly beat are just that, random clips from random games, not one of them alone or in bunches from random games, proves anything other than yes, all cornerbacks get burned.

He's a great physical tools prospect who hasn't yet topped out, atleast according to several NFL minds, don't try to explain away the interest he drew, several good teams had their eyes on him and theres no denying that... but as California Chief pointed out, Reid and company insisted on going to the front of the line for him (looove that line, that's exactly what they did for him and everyone else).

Yes, dozens of fin fans opinions mean exactly jack and squat... there are dozens on this site alone, let alone the dozen other Chiefs outlets. Yes, random fans rantings mean NOTHING.

What you've found so far... is a young, physically imposing from a height/weight/speed view cb, who has probably not reached his full potential, and according to random fins fans, if we're counting that, is a mix of pure awesome mixed with fair share of whiffs... just what you expect from a younger player. I'm not so sure he's a pure natural, probably not, but the combination of intensive coaching that he will get here from an old pal, plus plain old ongoing maturation, should help him get his big, gangly size under control and start being consistent with it.

Personally, I'm excited with his potential and if nothing else he's a perfect complement to 5'9 Flowers... as much as I thought Arenas filled in pretty admirably last year, you just know having two guys that size outside is an instant disadvantage.

My money says 80-20 you're flat wrong on him.

Claynus posts a picture of Andre Johnson beating Smith. Andre Johnson, the most physically gifted WR in the entire league beats just about every corner.

Ya that's like someone knocking a corner because they can't cover Calvin Johnson a physical freak of a WR

Smith did give up alot of yards we can't argue that. Teams targeted him like crazy, so that definately inflated the amount of numbers he gave up. He had a pretty good YPA alllowed as well as Completion percentage against. His crusade is a bit ridiculous as he's young, experienced, and extremely talented.

No wonder no one is going after Pay Me Like a Starting QB Revis.

Revis can rot in NYC for all I care.

and those are the 4 seasons carr played for KC.

Sean Smith ran a 4.51 at the combine. His vertical was only 34 inches.

I don't think his physical tools are all that great, especially considering how much he gets beat.

Maybe if he ran faster he wouldn't get toasted so much.

In I end I don't care how much he's getting paid, because I believe we could have signed a better DB.

I guess it's fairly low risk/high reward. That's all I like about it, since I think everyone in this fan base will want him gone in a year, or moved to safety, which he'd suck at, too.

Wow. This kid was:

10th in 20-yard shuttle
15th in 3-cone drill
Somewhere way down the list on vertical (top was 45 inches).
Somewhere way down the list on 40-yard dash.

He doesn't have great physical tools. If he wasn't 6-foot-3 no one would care about this turd.

I'd have rather had Chris Houston personally but this signing IMO isn't due to Smith's past production.

This signing IMO is about giving Emmitt and Harris a 6'3 corner to try and develop into a solid press RCB.

They didn't break the bank for him and signed him for his potential upside, not his past production.

You're an insufferable bastard. You truly are.

What better corners did you want that are press corners?

I'll wait while you look up PFF stats to support your shit arguments.

If he sucks, it was a one year deal. You're a ****ing crybaby.

Top corner on the market and the chiefs got him cheap. Why are you crying again?

Could've been worse, we could've signed a no talent, non-tackling pussy like Nnamdi Asomougha

This guy was not the top corner on the market, and the 2013 season will prove it.

Apparently you didn't get the memo: Sean Smith is a poor tackler.

lol People think Smith was the top corner on the market?

Thanks media.

Nnamdi is way worse. He was ****ing awful the past couple years since he signed with Philly

When will you flip flop? i say week 8

I guess we don't get a answer.

I'm guessing all of these guys will have better seasons than Sean Smith:

Pacman Jones
Sam Shields
Greg Toler
Sheldon Brown
Chris Houston


BTW, giving up a second-round pick for Sam Shields and drafting Geno would have been a far better offseason for this team:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...n-sam-shields/

Instead we get shitty Sean Smith and shitty Alex Smith and some slapdick DL at 1.1 probably.

Packers match the offer now what??

you want to give a 2nd for Sam Shields? Haha

I actually wouldn't mind this signing so much if we had some competition for him. He needs to be pushed because he's a cocky asshole who thinks he's the reincarnation of Deion Sanders.

I don't mind our CB potential one bit...Flowers, Smith and Arenas with Robinson have CB experience as well as possibly being the FS.

Seems like an above average group of corners to me.

Sheldon Brown? Sheldon Brown? As a press man corner? Holy ****.

And Shields can't be included in this argument. I'd rather Shields too, but he's not a FREE compensation player like the rest of them.

Pacman Jones had a nice year, but he's a ****ing head case and he's attracted zero interest on the market.

Toler is injury prone.

Houston is routinely burned too, but you can make an argument for him.

The rest, laughable.

That's because you have common sense, and can watch football and understand it.

I stand by my statement.

Time will tell.

Smith will have Al Harris and Emmitt Thomas coaching him. That is better then anything he had in Miami.

Jesus Christ clay you call Alex Smith shitty yet he's your avitar pic on Twitter. Nice try

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. Are you saying I actually like his noodle arm checkdown ass?

You talk shit about him yet you have him as your picture. Why?

You wanted Alex Smith clay, now we got him you trash him

Because Alex Smith makes funny faces. Like a clown.

:facepalm:

Are you trolling me or something? You know full well I wanted him as a backup.

Im not trolling you dumbass Im telling you still wanted him here. Youre the ****ing troll constantly bashing every ****ing move this organization makes

If you would pull your head out of your butt you would realize I've only been bashing two moves.

You bashed the Donnie Avery acquisition.

No I didn't. I said I liked it.

I did point out he led the league in drop percentage, but no FA is perfect. I was simply passing along info.

I don't want to dismiss the opinions of other fans, and the PFF rating out of hand.

There are knowledgable fans in every fanbase, and their opinions here on Sean Smith, and the rating by PFF should raise some concern.

I, however, for my part will not voice an opinion about the signing since I have little tono personal knowledge.

And seriously, giving shit to Claythan for "flip-flopping"?

Opinions can't change based on new info?

Nick Jacobs ‏@Jacobs71

In Peter King article. "Bob Sutton's scheme is about 85-percent press man." said Chiefs GM John Dorsey


Nick Jacobs ‏@Jacobs71

John Dorsey in King article:"we think Sean's the type of physical corner who fits the defense perfectly."

While the FAs we've signed aren't all that I'm of the mind that Reid and Dorsey know who will fit in with what Reid wants to do with this team. Some folks are poopooing Sean Smith but our DC has seen him play up close twice a year for the last three to four years. They know what they're getting. I have feeling that this applies to all the guys we've signed.

Peter King endorses this deal. IT MUST BE AWESOME

5. Kansas City: CB Sean Smith, three years, $18 million. At 6-foot-3, Smith is one of the biggest corners in league history -- and six inches taller than the two Chief starters last year. In a division (and league) with receivers getting taller every season, it looks like a smart deal. "[Defensive coordinator] Bob Sutton's scheme is about 85-percent press man, and we think Sean's the type of physical corner who fits the defense perfectly,'' said GM John Dorsey.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...#ixzz2NvaLXY1e

Press man and TAMHOOOOOOOUSSSS being let loose on the outside :drool: :)

This guy must be good, my buddy got 3 INTs off me with him on Madden the other night!

I like this: Think it speaks to Smith even though this isn't our coach.

@DonBanks: Chip Kelly on body type he looks for: "We want taller, longer people, because big people beat up little people.'' Makes perfect sense to me.

well, the problem with taller corners is that you often sacrifice 'quickness'. Their straight line 40 yd dash speed may be just fine, but it tends to take taller, longer players a little longer to get moving. This is why 6'3" corners are rare. WR's can be taller because they know where they're going on their routes; the CB has to react, and do so QUICKLY. This may be obvious to some of you, but bears clarification.

Press coverage would help a bigger corner, for sure. If you can knock a WR off his route, you have the upper hand. I would think that Sean Smith would pretty much ONLY be effective in press-man. I would think he would struggle in zone coverages as it's nearly impossible for him to 'outquick' a receiver at his size.

I agree. It seems to me that Sean Smith would be perfect covering a TE in passing situations.

www.rotoworld.com

Coach Andy Reid insists Dunta Robinson will be competing for a starting corner job.

Reid even said that Robinson would be his No. 1 corner if they were going to practice now. This flies in the face of previous speculation that the ex-Falcon would be shifting to safety in Kansas City. No matter how this all shakes out, the Chiefs are going to have one of the better coverage secondaries in the league with Robinson, Brandon Flowers and Sean Smith.


lolwut

Seriously, it's like politics in here. Just because somebody changes their position doesn't make them weak or a fool for ****'s sake.

Bad reading comprehension from Rotoworld. Reid said that Robinson would be the No. 1 guy right now to start opposite Flowers, the obvious #1.

I figured that's what it had to be. It'd be reeruned to come in and state that Flowers isn't the #1.