I do not think you have a good point here. Although, I knew holding a grudge against the Giants would be counter-productive.

October 14, 2012
NYG 26 – SF 3

A quarterback can be heavily involved in his team’s success or be the cause of their failure. In Super Bowl XLVII, the 49ers had four chances to get into the end zone – However, they failed miserably.

Enough said.

I hope ViperVisor is not criticizing another team's quarterback.

You do know Alex played that game with an injured throwing hand, right?

Question what was the 49ers 3rd down conversion ratio when they ran? what was it when they passed?

Wow...I guess Gore sucks more than Alex then...or there's more to the stat then what you're suggesting.

How many of those 3rd down situations were 7+ yards?

Double standard some fans have..It's all Alex's fault when the team sucked, but when the team was good he had nothing to do with it.

Please note, I'm not saying that Alex carried the team on his back. But he was a big part of why they were successful.

I have never said Smith or Kaepernick lost the game vs. the Giants.

However, I did write about how the 49ers defense gave up 26 points - which could have been higher, if not for Coughlin in the fourth quarter to prevent another touchdown pass.

Sorry, I should have gone back for context. I'm guilty of jumping the gun on occasion. I read the score and the comment regarding quarterbacks and made a bad assumption.

Kaepologies.

Good thing since he cant seem to win it out right, they can just make sure to give it to him.
Its going to be hilarious. And you will just make excuses for his massive failure.

Excuses!

He should have learned long ago how to throw the ball left-handed. That's on him, and that's why he's an asshole! :p

LOL!

It should be entertaining. He will simultaneously be making every excuse for Geno while calling every defense of Alex an excuse at the same time... and the prevailing excuse distinction will be, "well uh, he's just a rookie, Alex has had 20 years to play."

I love the "just a rookie" cries... as in one breath, they point out all of the successful rookies of late to defend one particular argument.. but then completely flop on that when it's convenient. :)

Will be glad when all the Alex Smith fanbois are cleared from here. Nauseating.

That's going to be tough to do when we win 10 games and make the playoffs.

I really don't get why many are so butthurt at the 49ers fans here. So long as it wasn't division rivals or the Cowpukes, we all enjoyed having other team's fans visit the 49ers forum and talk it up. Why are KC fans so miserable and xenophobic? Must be the Patriots/Cassell thing, for the most part, I guess.

If you just talk straight football and be decent human beings, then there would be no issue at all. I'm telling you... you are creating your own misery.

Because you invaded our forum to talk up a QB that is incredibly bad and has shown how incredibly bad he is over and over again.

**** you! **** you right in your big ol wounded vagina!

Parallel universe?

This is the same QB that was 8th in NFL passer rating in 2011... 1st NFL passer rating in 2012... top 10 in the last 37 games.. terrific win % of late...

I get that football is a team game... I get that Harbaugh and the SF offense didn't ask him to take over games and go wild in the Tony Romo mode... but an efficient QB that limits turnovers and wins far more games than he loses...

This is the QB that "is incredibly bad and has shown how incredibly bad he is over and over again." ????

That's just ****ing stupid.

childish, boring, and adding nothing..

It it? LMAO

I guess you weren't a 49ers fan from 2005-2010. A season and a half doesn't make a QB good, and even then, he wasn't anything special.

How much you want to bet?

Not only will Geno get the rookie pass, but(thurt) Fisher won't. It's a bizarro world around here.

Never about what a player was or did many years ago. It is about the player he is in recent times and today. Sure, Alex was underwhelming and sometimes horrible in his early years. So were the 49ers and revolving door of coaching. Once the coaching became stable and capable, once the player personnel improved, so did Alex. Imagine that... a QB that needs good, consistent coaching and decent players around him. No way! :doh!:

:troll: Seriously you're better than that.

"What have you done lately?"doesn't apply around here...

LMAO

History lesson:

Matt Cassel took over for Tom Brady in 2008 and had a "statistically" great year and "led" the Patriots to 11-5 and just short of the playoffs. He, then, went to a no-talent Chiefs team and went 4-12. There were already questions about Cassel's ability at that time, but we decided to give him the benefit of the doubt due to the lack of talent on the team.

Then, in 2010, the Chiefs developed an identity and Cassel simply didn't screw anything up, thus making the playoffs. Again, I must add that the Cheifs asked Cassel to do NOTHING but a random play action pass every once in awhile, seriously. Then the next two years, the real Cassel showed himself to be the horrific QB that we all started thinking he was when he was forced to actually do something.

What I'm trying to say to you, oh great Alexcuse whisperer, is that a QB can really florish and mask his weaknesses if the system is REALLY good and if the talent is REALLY good. If things unravel the way they did for Cassel to where he has to win games himself, we'll all know what will happen with Alex Smith.

Yes, it's unfortunate that fans can get so invested in a particular agenda that they bend and twist everything to fit.

( and before people cry "you are doing it with Alex!" )... Maybe I am overestimating him on this new team. Maybe he will underwhelm and be nothing more than a mediocre stop-gap. I am fine with people lumping him into that average range of QBs, though I do think he has proven to be better lately.. top 12, but more around 12.

edit added in : What annoys me is the ignorant and exaggerated comments like this...

Quote:

a QB that is incredibly bad and has shown how incredibly bad he is over and over again.

Keep coming back to it, but really, Alex will be as good as the team around him is. If KC has a good defense, decent STs, decent pass pro, and capable receivers, the Chiefs will consider the trade compensation a fair one in time. If this team around him is much weaker than most think? It could be a 6-8 win season until they add a little more of what is needed.

Perhaps. I think 90+ % of Chiefs fans rightfully believe that Alex is a superior QB to Cassel. I sure do also.

Add in new coaching and a few player additions since the Cassel days, and maybe just maybe you will be surprised and happy about the success to come.

The Cassel/Peeonus era really has this fan base acting like a beaten puppy, and it's understood.

Cassel, unlike Smith, didn't even play a snap in college. That dude didn't even get to see the field during a regular college game. I never understood how even got a gig in the NFL. Smith was a very good college QB, who was drafted #1. Now, he has shown his ugly, but he has also shown why he was good in college. What QB are we going to get ? Hopefully the one who helps his team win games. .

^ I never expected anything good for KC when I first heard about the Cassel addition.

We did. A lot of us "hoped" for the best when Cassel came along,a nd that's part of why a lot of the fan base is pissed about Smith. It's a different scenario, but it doesn't feel like one.

I agree, I think he is better than Cassel, but being better than Cassel isn't saying too much.

Nothing wrong with having hope when you see your team making some changes at important positions. Hope getting crushed from one or many failed attempts of the past should never beat the fan down so hard as to leave him or her in the corner as that beaten puppy.

edit: added in.. look at their remarkable differences in turnovers.

Well, add in the coaching upgrade... which can be huge. Look what it did for the 49ers. We were wallowing in mediocre misery (and worse) with some very good players on the team. Then suddenly we get new coaching (Harbaugh and others)... upgrade our OL (Boone at RG and Davis improving at RT).. and voila... a mediocre at best team becomes a SB contender immediately.

... or do you think poorly of your new coaches? or do you (like others) not put enough stock in what good coaching really does for a team?

I think coaching matters, but Reid and his staff will be held accountable just as the coaches before him were. We'll see how it goes with him. I think we'll learn quite a bit about this team tomorrow night.

Yet, you can't quit us. You bitch about the "culture" of the board, but keep coming back even though there are a few other boards that use kid gloves that you could frequent.

Some.. sure. Still don't expect KC to be using many (or any) plays that they plan to use from their playbook in the regular season. Preseason tends to favor the backyard balling QB types. So many unfamiliar-to-the-playbook plays used end up turning into broken, amateur looking plays.. and that's when backyard ballers tend to run around like wild men chucking and ducking to make shit happen.

I have my reasons. ;)

Sounds like Danielssssss.

The other sounds like Smith.

hahahahaha Oh, Lil'Chiefy; you crack me up.

Who cares what they did in college?

You don't get it. Smith's best is preventing a team from losing games due to him. He doesn't have the ability to help a team win games. That is his best. That's what he brings to the table. He's every bit as limited as Cassel, they both need coaches to take the game completely out of their hands. There's some obvious differences but the results are the same and he often looks just like Cassel (que up that gif of him staring down Bowe, wide pants-shitting stance, and then running right into the sack). Only Cassel doesn't have a parade of ****ing idiots going around trying to prop him up (well any more).

Only blind people and Alex Smith fans aren't able to see him for what he is. Funny thing is half the Alex Smith fans admit that's exactly what he is but then they still keep spouting off when people point out that's total dogshit for an NFL QB and is not a franchise QB.

Its because you've probably got multiple accounts to prop up Smith who is probably your son or cousin or some shit. That or you think you'll get to gloat about Smith at some point. But you'll run off like a bitch if he fails.

Nah, that's not who I am. There may be some gloating, but I'm sure you can admit that some people here fully deserve it.

As for if Alex fails? It's whatever to me. This whole "being right" and taking pride from it on a football forum is silly and beneath me. That is why making fun predictions is fine, but there is a thin line of distinction when using absolutes to describing future outcomes.

This is part of the problem with forum folks and young people anyway... accountability. I won't feel embarrassed at all if Alex sucks it up. Why should I? Am I being paid to give my expert evaluations here? I will simply be disappointed in him and the Chiefs season. Not a big deal or a life-changing issue. People that feed their ego and identity on a forum are silly and internally weak for needing such approval or validation.

The point is Cassel wasn't even good enough to play in college, but somehow he made it into the NFL, cuz USC is a QB pipeline. The dude has no biz being in the NFL from the beginning. smith, on the other hand, was good enough to be drafted #1. Big difference between the two right off the bat. Cassel is a ****ing horrible QB, while Smith has shown both sides, horrid and good. So, lets see which Smith we get before we start yelling about how someone doesn't get it. I do get it. It could be good, or it could be bad. We don't know yet. No one know s yet, and to act like you do means you don't get it.

My problem with Alex Smith isn't that he would play good or bad but somewhere in between. Average. He is just an average quarterback that isn't going take us beyond a first round in the playoffs. He will do enough to keep his job and prevent us from drafting and coaching up potential franchise quarterback.

I already have a bet with Clay.

Yea keep concerning yourself with our #2 QB position while Geno is probably being handed the starting job because he cant beat out Buttfumble on the filed. LMAO

Given your track record of QB evaluation, have you considered toning it down this time? Sanchez' legacy will be the butt fumble. I wonder if Geno can top that?

Dinny

The irony of Smith competing with Buttfumble for a job and the lack of separation between the 2 is the best part of this.

Well, he was on a team, and part of the reason why the team got past a first round in the playoffs. However, I think your "absolute" is closer to what will really happen.

Hopefully he helps keep us competitive til Reid and Co find the QB that will get us to the promise land. I'd rather be able to watch football than have another 2-14 season.

I would like for us to take a shot at AJ McCarron next season. Flame away!

Andy Reid thinks he can win with him. Alex's biggest problem is that he is gun shy. He would rather punt than make a risky throw on 3rd and long.

Lets be honest. And people don't want to hear this. Just like the 49ers have been trying to do for 3 years, the Chiefs have the same exact problem. Their wide receiver corps is weak. The 49ers receivers corps is still weak.

There is this false believe that Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, could do what they are doing with just anyone. They don't need the coaching, or players around them, they are just that good.

there are a lot of prospects out there that are intriguing.

Bridgewater, McCarron, NOT MANZIEL, Bryn Renner, Tahj Boyd, Aaron Murray, the kid from Oregon, Logan Thomas.

Intriguing.

His defense gives up an insurmountable 34 points that no winning SB team has ever overcome, he brought his team back from a 22-point deficit to within 5 yards of winning, and he blames himself.

Heart and Soul of a Champion.

I am almost saying the same thing, but I'm not.

I would say, "Alex was part of why they were successful, not a big part".

We just disagree.

Would you also agree that the playcalling and deliberate leaning on the D and STs was part of the coaches' plan... and that this also plays a huge part in the 3rd down conversion results?

Um... Because it is a KC CHIEFS forum.

Just a wild ass guess there. Maybe they embrace Seahawks and Steelers fans. :banghead:

Yeahhhh, his turnover had nothing to do with that deficit. His shitty first half play had nothing to do with that.

Alex Smith didn't exactly ever throw anyone under the bus for his short comings did he? Unlike your boy crabtree who routinely threw alex under the bus........

Get over it. The bottom line is this. You swore you couldn't wait till alex smith was gone, and you didn't have to talk about him anymore, yet, you are still here.

This is me, holding your feet to the fire with your words........

Do you want to continue this on the 49ers forum? Because the Chiefs fans want us to STOP talking 49ers on THEIR FORUM.

You merely had to answer the question instead of side-step it.

This whole, "it's a Chiefs forum" is ****ing stupid too. They don't have to click into this thread and can put us on ignore if they really had issues with us talking about Alex Smith.. who is not a 49er but is a Chief.

I mean, we ARE discussing threads talking about how to poop and how to protect oneself against home invasions.. Are they exclusive to talking about the Chiefs? SMDH

pffffff. Hes embraced here because hes an Alex Smith hater. He wont go back and look at the super bowl drive for drive like I just did. he will realize how poorly Kaep really played, and his 41 qbr, and 91 rating, being overshadowed by his pathetic 2/9 3rd down conversions, his ill timed sacks taken that cost drives, or his interception in the first half.

Those are mere blackout after thoughts for him.

The fact is this. The 49ers receivers, have been weak as hell since T.O. and Jerry rice were the starting receivers.

But qbs make your receivers better is what I keep hearing around here. Their only example people can give me, is how Kaep made Crabtree better. But no mention of how much worse every other receiving option got on the 49ers.

The Chiefs, just like the 49ers have pathetic receiving options.

And its not going to matter much who the qb is in Kansas City until that changes......

The Chiefs fans have asked us nicely and not so nicely 1000 times now to quit talking about the 49ers. I was wrong to post up about Kaepernick because that is a 49ers discussion.

As relates to Alex, anything 49ers related pertinent to Alex or the future of the Chiefs is fair game. But our side discussions about past 49ers history, is just pissing the Chiefs fans off more and making us look like bigger and bigger jackasses.

We have to knock it off. We really do.

The main point is this.

Even the great qbs, need weapons that they trust, and that are GOOD players.

That's the bottom line. Especially for someone with a limited skill set as Alex Smith. I made this point a while ago, and people disagreed with me.

If you put Alex Smith with a team on offense with the talent level of Atlanta, packers, saints, broncos, he would be considered a borderline top 10 qb.

if you put aaron Rodgers drew brees, peyton manning or matt ryan with the Chiefs weapons, are they still considered elite?

Or near elite?

And notice. I have never once said that Geno Smith is going to struggle in New York because of his skill level.

he is going to struggle because the offensive talent around him is AWFUL. AWFFFFFFULLLLL.

you are being such a suck-ass douchenozzle... why? you want to fill your green bar? I'll send you your daily allotted + rep if you will stop being such a pussy and stop trying to accommodate the very assholes that start every ****ing nasty argument on here.

We are mostly talking 49ers because it can relate to Chiefs football... so let's not pretend the discussion is way off in left field. Again, I see tons of threads here that have not a ****ing thing to do with Chiefs topics.

You need to grow a pair and stop trying to mod this board like you are some kind of golden liaison. If the mods want a few of us to stop talking Chiefs/49ers football, I am sure they will let us know.

What was our bet again? I need to bookmark it. o:-)

I tried telling them. He is the biggest troll here. I watched it for months. He comes here, sucks dick, jumps in with the in crowd of alex bashers, runs back to the 49ers forum board, laughs at the Chiefs and their fans. I have never seen anything like it. He is 54 years old. Yet, he is still like hes in high school wanting to be the cool kid......

I mean, im a douche, Im a dick, im firm in my beliefs, and convictions.

Him? hes a front runner.

Just so long as you guys know you won't get answers from me anymore about 49ers exclusive things. When you ask me some question about Kaep or Harbaugh or write a PhD thesis on it, and I don't answer you, and you go on to say I am just ignoring you or I have no response -- just know that I'm not going to discuss non-Chiefs related 49ers shit anymore, if I can keep you guys from inadvertently baiting me into it.

If you guys can't see that the Chiefs board here just doesn't want to see this shit, then you are truly hopeless.

When you start attacking me for not responding to 49ers crap, just know I'm doing this because the Chiefs fans DON'T WANT TO SEE IT, not because you made some good point I can't rebut.

I love being called a "troll" for understanding that Chiefs fans don't give a shit about the 49ers. That is rich.

You guys really don't get it.

No, I get it perfectly clear. You want to be one of the Boys. You claimed that Alex Smith was the reason the 49ers failed in 2011, and I brought Kaep into it to say that with that type of logic, even though its completely false, that Kaep was the reason the 49ers last year didn't win. Its a team game.

You were the one who brought in Cohn, the dumbest of dumb shock jocks to pin the blame on Alex Smith.

I called you on it, held your feet to the fire with your own words.

Fine, you don't want to be a troll, and you don't want to talk 49ers stuff, then stop bringing up how Alex performed as a 49er, or how he failed as a 49er as a basis for how he will perform as a Chief.

YOU CANT DO IT. None of us can....Know why? He hasn't played a single meaningful game for the Chiefs, and the only things people can relate with Alex Smith is what he did as a 49er.


Sooooo, good luck with that boss.

This is not personal. But I truthfully take complete umbrage with your attacks on Alex Smith over and over. Especially, when you and other 49ers trolls that came here said you couldn't wait for him to be gone, to take his Alexsexuals with him and you wouldn't have to talk about him anymore.


Yet.........


HERE, YOU, ARE.

Your feet warm yet?

God damn, shut up and stop ruining our Alex Smith threads.

This is a complete joke.

Did you see the abortion of a team the Colts became when they lost Peyton Manning? He played behind a shit offensive line, the worst running game in the NFL, and a rotating carousel of receivers that weren't anything remarkable beyond Reggie Wayne.

New Orleans has an okay line, an average running game, and Brees has won games behind some of the most injury-bit receiving corps out there. He was winning games with Terrence Copper as his #2 receiver at one point.

Green Bay's supporting cast is not good. They have the worst running game in the league and one of the worst offensive lines. They have good receivers when healthy, but most of those guys like Jordy Nelson and Cobb wouldn't be nearly as productive behind the wrong QB.

Tom Brady made an AFC championship game throwing to Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as his top 2 guys.

Your point is wrong on so many levels. Elite QBs elevate the play of the team exponentially more than any other position does. That's why the idea that it's okay to settle for a good enough QB is utterly ridiculous. Our supporting cast on offense is a hell of a lot more talented than Rodgers' or Brees'.

Chiefzilla.

They added T.Y. Hilton last year, who was very good.

Dwayne Allen, and Coby Fleener, to go with Reggie Wayne.

Yes, Andrew Luck is an absolute stud, and I didn't say that if Alex Smith played for a team like the Saints, Falcons, or Packers that he would be those guys. I specifically said hes not of that caliber, but you mean to honestly tell me that James Jones, Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, Jermichael Finley aren't more talented than what the Chiefs have as receiving options?

And about the Saints. They nearly had 3 1000 yard receivers last year.

Colston, Lance Moore, and Jimmy Graham all had 900 plus yards.

I don't even understand your point about bringing up the saints.

and if what you say is true.

Why did tom brady get so pissed when wes welker left, and why did the broncos see it as so important to add a player of Wes Welkers ability if receivers really don't matter. Shouldn't someone as good as Peyton Manning be able to elevate anyone?

He's saying while those wrs are good, they're made better because of the qb, not the other way around.

And I completely agreed with that. that's why I said that if Alex Smith was the qb on any of those teams, Alex would have better numbers, but they wouldn't be to those standards. Basically what I am saying is for Alex Smith to have ultimate success he needs the weapons like Atlanta.

He needs Jones, White, Harry Douglas, Tony G, a good oline, and Stephen Jackson.

he doesn't have anything near that here.

He has Bowe, and Charles.

Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Tom Brady have won a shitload of games behind terrible supporting casts.

The o-line protecting Peyton in his last season in Indy was criminally bad. The Saints, Green Bay, Indy, and New England have played way too many years with criminally bad running backs. The Saints have good receivers. They are made to look a whole lot better behind Brees. They've won games with David Patten and Terrence Copper as their #2's. Aaron Rodgers won a Super Bowl when he was pretty much missing the entire starting receiving corps.

The idea that QBs are the product of their supporting cast is completely silly.

His numbers would be shit on those teams. Those teams have horrible offensive lines and running games. Smith would take 80 sacks and would be asked to throw the ball 40 times a game.

And in your estimation although the majority of the people on this board are already declaring Eric Fisher a bust, and the display that was shown vs the 49ers leads you to believe that the Chiefs oline is all world?

The Saints oline is very good. VERY GOOD. Especially at tackle and center.

Their Tackles are average, but their offense is miles ahead of the Chiefs.

When I am talking about Play makers, I am talking about receivers and tightends as a group. yes, Green Bays oline is poor. I understand that. And I understand that aaron Rodgers is 10 times the qb as Alex Smith, and I stated that.

Mike McCarthy liked Alex Smith when he was drafted, he would make it work with him. No, Alex Smith would not put up near the numbers that Rodgers does. Hes not that good.

Which brings me back. Alex Smith has to have superior talent around him, which he does not have in Kansas City.

He is going to have to rely on a strong special teams, defense, and Jamaal, and Bowe.

Even if you had an elite qb here, their numbers wouldn't be as great where they are. The talent isn't here.

That's what im trying to say.

just like I said. if Geno Smith struggles this year, it wont be a reflection on his talent, as much as it is on the talent around him.

Of those 3 teams, New Orleans has the most talent. But Brees doesn't need those guys. He's played on teams where his receivers and o-line have been really banged up, and he's the same QB.

If you acknowledge Green Bay, Indy (with Peyton), and Brady, then what exactly is your point? Great QBs make bad offensive supporting casts look really good. I don't understand why you think the solution is to try to bring in 8 elite players to support the QB, when the solution is to find 1 elite QB who can turn 8 average players into very good players.

If geno is talented enough, he'll raise the talent around him.

An elite generational qb doesn't need great talent around him, he makes good average talent look elite

Rodgers and Brees haven't sniffed a SB recently and wont until they fix the surrounding talent.

GB hasn't won a playoff game in 2 years.

NO hasn't won a playoff game since 2009.

Pitt has won 2 SB's and lost 1 because they have some defense and surrounding talent.

Same thing for the Giants.

The Ravens have been annual contenders because of team talent.

Any team can make a 1 year run but you need a balanced team (with a good QB) to sustain success.

NE may be an exception but thats because the Brady/BB combo is simply even better than Brees, Manning, Rodgers and basically anyone else over that span.

Hell I just looked back out of curiosity, outside of the SB run Rodgers hasn't won a playoff game before or after and he is considered to be the best QB in the NFL for years now.

Outside of Jimmy Graham, I've never thought the Saints have had game-changing dominant skill players.

Same thing with the Packers.

Those QB's make that whole thing go.

It hasn't been that long has it?

4 years and 3 years respectively.