oh, sorry to hear that dude.

Otwp is a loser nobody with no facts?

Jfc dude. You couldn't be farther off. And I have fought with that guy more than most.
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It's alright, they've got a guy who they've called up into the pen who's frequently compared to and is actually nicknamed "Baby Pedro" who probably has better stuff than Shelby.


Cupboard isn't really bare.

Everyone, including myself, is arguing and name calling without facts. Not a single ****ing game has been played.......

He takes no pass at taking shots at me though. And recently, the fact that he never wants to acknowledge the talent level at receiver both here, and for the 49ers last two years, is not up to par of the elite OFFENSES in the league,, bothers me.

I understand that Alex Smith, even if he had Green bays offense, wouldn't put up the numbers that Aaron Rodgers does. but, I bet, he could get over 200 yards per game. Does anyone really think that if Aaron Rodgers was here in Kansas City as is, that his numbers wouldn't dip? We are talking the VERY BEST QB IN FOOTBALL.

Ours is beyond empty. And its being proven. Timmy sucks, Vogey got hurt, and we cant beat anyone. We lost our leadoff man in Pagan, and we have sucked since. So sad to be so dependent on two guys.

There are eight years of "facts" to look at.

And no one wants to hear excuses. **** an excuse.
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And no I don't think Rodgers' numbers would dip much, if at all.
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Imagine giving a QB like Rodgers a running game or just a RB like Charles.

I'm not sure his numbers would dip much.

Not an excuse. TRUTH. Alex Smith is not as good as Aaron Rodgers. The Chiefs Receiving options are not as good as Green Bays.

Facts. No excuses. I expect the Chiefs to still win. Not just the way that people assume is the winning way in the league at the moment.

Yes it will.

The Chiefs defense is absolutely going to destroy offenses this season.

Ruin people. Leave bodies in their wake.

I'm absolutely shocked you think that this defense isn't going to amount to much.

The personnel is a great match for the defense Sutton is going to run and the free agent signings are huge. If you don't think for a minute that Sean Smith, in a press coverage scheme, isn't going to be light years better than Stanford Routt or Javier Arenas you are high as shit.

And DeVito is an upgrade to Dorsey, despite everyone still attempting to wipe the drool from their mouths over the drafting of him four years ago.

Otherwise, I don't know what you want out of this defense in terms of personnel.

The big replacement is the MLB position and replacing the production of a round the clock psychotic drunk isn't going to be that big of a deal. Either Nico Johnson or Akeem Jordan is going to give you Belcher's numbers right out of the gate.

I goddamn guarantee you that our defense will be close to the 2012 49'ers. Top 3 in the AFC minimum.

A completely pedestrian defensive line and two guys who sucked ass last year and the year before playing #2 and #3 CB = disaster.

Mediocre at best.

And don't forget Kendrick Lewis blows.

When was Hudson not back to normal?

His break was clean and didn't even require surgery. He was simply going to be in a boot for long enough that they decided to put him on IR in 2012.

From everything I've heard, he's tip top:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ys9PxJYl-VQ?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's not going to be a pedestrian defensive line. Not this year. I think that Crennel was absolutely working against the strengths of the players here and I expect to see some 46 sets, some 43 to go along with the base 34.

I also believe that Sean Smith was utilized improperly in Miami and he'll be pretty good in a press coverage scheme that you will see out of Sutton's defense, especially playing the #2 opposite of Flowers. Robinson as a nickel is just fine with me. And Lewis doesn't blow. If he's healthy he's a pretty good free safety.

I know that you love the Doomsayer schtick, but this team is pretty solid on both sides of the ball. Better personnel, better balance than I can remember from what the Chiefs have put on the field over the past decade plus. Don't be the Chiefs fan version of this guy:

http://www.searchamelia.com/wp-conte...nd-is-near.jpg

There's a reason why a lot of pundits have predicted the Chiefs as their dark horse the past couple of seasons - talent on both sides of the ball. It's why six guys went to the Pro Bowl this past season even though the team went 2-14.

There were three reasons why the Chiefs stunk in 2012:

http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal...09pioli600.jpg
http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/sp...b018f29776.jpg
http://binaryapi.ap.org/064443dd6e22...dc869/512x.jpg
And I'll even include a fourth:
http://chiefconcerns.com/wp-content/.../10/daboll.jpg

None of these guys are here. But the talent is, with a coaching staff that looks to be exemplary. I personally think that the 2013 Chiefs are in a situation similar to the 2010 to 2011 49ers - a lot of talent, but hamstringed the previous year by amazing incompetence in management and coaching.

These boys are going to kick ass this year.

Sorry, but Tyson Jackson and Mike DeVito are pedestrian as ****.

Dontari Poe is ????????

At best it's an average group, and the depth doesn't exist.

Poe and Powe are gonna beast.

If this team is average on defense I'll be very thrilled.

What I'm interested to see is if Sutton knows the Ryan scheme, or if he's just a copycat. If he knows the scheme, there's some good pieces here. Keep in mind that the Jets had HORRENDOUS pass rushers, which is a critical element to that scheme because they put so much pressure that they have to get to the QB quickly.

I think Poe is much further along than people give him credit for, and DeVito is actually a nice fit for the D (while people complain that he can't rush the passer, in the Ryan scheme, he's valuable because he can play multiple positions across the line in both a 3-4 AND a 4-3. We're still a few pieces away on defense and dangerously thin on the line. But I think we could maybe crack the top 10 on the very big "if" that Sutton actually knows this defense.

People are acting like a completely new defensive scheme is gonna be picked up overnight.

Pump your breaks, saccopoo.

It's not a completely new defense, but it is a somewhat different defense.

Sac is just jacking off because we signed the big Mormon has our coach, brought in the worthless QB from Utah, his second love child behind Okung in Matt Reynolds, and another Utah player in Sean Smith.

Defenses don't take nearly as long as offenses to teach and they have changed overnight.

The part that will be a little challenging is the defensive line, because they have to learn some 4-3 techniques. But DeVito can do it, Tyson Jackson played 3-technique in college, and Poe has been playing multiple techniques for some time (even if he needs quite a bit of development).

We are asking mediocre players to learn a new scheme.

There are going to be growing pains. Top 10 is completely out of the question, barring Dontari Poe becoming HOF status overnight.

Apart from Revis, the defensive talent on KC is no different from New York's.

How long did it take Rex Ryan to turn the Jets around?

He took Mangini's defense (which is the same as Romeo's) which was ranked 18th and turned them into a #1 defense (same defense Sutton will run) in one season.

No no no no no...Matt Cassel shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Alex God-Like Smith; the all-knowing football minds at CP have righteously declared over and over again that SMITH IS NOT CASSEL, and will resemble him in NO way, shape or form evar.

We have no one as good as Shaun Ellis or Sione Pouha on this defensive line.

Not even close.

Shit, Tyson Jackson WISHES he was Marques Douglas.

I'm sure the fact that he had a down year that year didn't help.

And the Jets had no one near as good as Hali and Houston. Bryan Thomas wishes he was Hali or Houston, and Pace is not nearly as good as either of those guys. We have much better edge rushers.

And again, your point was that the defense couldn't turn around quickly. The Jets moved from the same 2-gap 3-4 to Ryan's 3-4 and went from a #18 defense to the best in the NFL.

It was an article from rotoworld. I'll try to find it.

Half the D went to the Pro Bowl dip-ass. And this after they played in a scheme where they supposed to play patty-cake with the offense. These guys are gonna thrive in a defense where the philosophy is: Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls.

Are you seriously too obtuse to realize I am not talking about those players?

Tyson Jackson, Dontari Poe and Mike DeVito are all average as **** non game-changers, and there is absolutely no depth.

In this league you need to have at least one difference maker on the defensive line to compete with the good teams.

We have jack at D-line. I'm actually being generous stating we could be a middle of the pack D. Yet some of you insist on harboring delusions of grandeur.

Its a shame we need quarterback again because Stephon Tuitt from Notre Dame would be the beast we need on the DL.

Everyone that's gone was the reason they were bad, and everyone that's still here will be better than they were. You know, schemes.

I don't think we know what Dontari Poe is. Tyson Jackson has shown himself to be a decent run stopper in Romeo's 3-4, but this system will be totally different. He's physically strong enough to at least be a bull-rush presence. Also, there is Powe, who I think showed himself to be at least a decent rotational player.

And in this type of aggressive defense, a guy like Bailey may well thrive as well.

You have decided, in advance, that no player will progress, that no drafted players will be any good, and that the QB will Cassel the joint up. Scheme changes mean nothing to you, quality of coaching means nothing to you, all of it is doomed to fail 100 percent because you don't like Alex Smith.

I don't even understand what you get out of any of this. If I was that upset about the direction of the team I think I'd just quit watching and find something else to do. It's kind of pathetic, really.

First of all, this talentless defensive line is about the same quality as the defense that ranked #12 just 2 years ago. Secondly, your obsession with the defensive line shows how little you know about Rex Ryan's defense. The Chiefs' have easily one of the best pass rushing OLB combos of any 3-4 defense. I would gladly take Houston-DeVito-Jackson-Hali over Pace-Ellis-Douglas-Thomas any day of the week, and that was the Jets' DE/OLB combos the year that defense ranked #1. Pouha is a reasonably good NT, but he wasn't anything close to elite. What we saw of Poe last year, there's no reason to believe he can't approach Pouha level play.

It's not like these D-linemen are bad. All the Ryan defense demands of these guys is versatility, and they all have it. Being able to pass rush is a nice bonus, but it's not like Ngata and Justin Bannon have been any kind of sack monsters in Baltimore. Tyson Jackson was always branded as a 3-4/4-3 hybrid, DeVito can play almost every position on the line, and Poe was scouted as a guy who could eventually do the same. Behind them, Powe is a decent enough Nose and maybe the Chiefs have something in Bailey. They could easily have a solid but unspectacular line, which is fine given the elite talent they have off the edges.

Finally, nobody has delusions that the Chiefs are a #1 defense. I said they can MAYBE crack the top 10 if Sutton coaches them well. Your idea that it is a reach to call them middle of the pack is just laughable. If the Chiefs can be top 15 behind Romeo's ultra-conservative defense, they can be top 15 behind Sutton's aggressive defense. Easily.

Piss off, troll

I would like to give Poe another season to see what he can do.

I haven't looked at this thread since the day it was posted. I'm afraid to even read what the hell has been going on here the last few days.

In the beginning, there is some great football discussion that has been sorely missed around these parts, then it turned into a discussion of a Casselesque nature for a bit. But all in all, not a bad read if you ask me.

Oh good lord. This fanbase just never fails to disappoint.

Awesome!

The Depth is probably going to be the strength of this d line actually. And, again, DeVito, far more than talent, is going to bring relentlessness, and work ethic, and vet leadership to a unit that really doesn't have any.
What people don't know about the jets. Despite them having a very Chiefs like offense last year, and losing Revis for the year, they still finished 8th in total defense. And as you pointed out, they don't have pass rushers that the Chiefs do.....
That 49ers team you LOVVVVVVE to reference in 2011 having the number two defense.........they had less time to learn a new scheme than the Chiefs do. So, why not? EXCUSE MAKER.

"At No. 17, some thought the Chiefs might take [insert QB name, placeholder: Aaron Murray] and try to address their QB spot for the future, but they address their defensive line with Stephon Tuitt from Notre Dame instead. Mike Mayock, what do you think?"

'GREAT value pick! I mean, great. Teddy Bridgewater was the only QB I could bang the table for in this draft, and we saw him go first overall to the Jaguars. There was some talk about the Chiefs trying to move up to that pick, but they just couldn't quite get there. So instead of reaching for a QB who doesn't have 1st round value, they make a smart value pick with Tuit...'

Also, does anybody else hear what some are say about DeVito and have flashbacks to Nate Hobgood-Chittick?

"He's smart and tries really hard all the time, and that will rub off on his teammates."

:deevee:

FYP...

If you compare Poe's rookie numbers to Casey Hampton's, they are damn near identical.

So are those of Joe Montana and Pat Barnes...

Numbers? For a nose tackle?

Fair enough.

Here is the Cliff Notes version: Most people-Alex Smith may not be too bad after all when you consider the scheme. Wendler and Sweet Daddy Hate/'Lil Chiefy- Alex Smith sucks more than Cassel, Quinn and Croyle combined.

Then you will be pleased. You can hate all you want but Smith has significantly more talent than castle. You set the bar at castle's best I think it should be higher because he has more talent. Remains to be seen if we get that production but the talent is there to expect more without being delusional.

I have us winning 6 or 7 games.

That's "doomed to fail" to you?

The facts are the facts. Tyson Jackson sucks, Dontari Poe was a big bag of nothing last year, and Mike DeVito is an average player. 0 depth. And this was the #25/#20 defense last year.

Top 10 isn't happening.

The defense was ranked #25/20 because they were lazy and uninspired. DJ, Berry, Flowers and Hali played incredibly flat and unenergetic last year. Apart from Carr, this is essentially the same defense that ranked #12 just 2 years ago, and that's with Houston only playing a half season. And Poe wasn't a big bag of nothing -- he was excellent for a rookie Nose Tackle and should get better this year.

And you still haven't addressed the point about our OLB combo, and why that seems to matter less to you than our DE combo. Like I said, our DE/OLB combo is much better than New York's in 2009.

If Sutton picked up a lot of good things from Ryan, and we stay mostly healthy, this defense can absolutely match up with. They certainly have more talent than the Jets, who ranked 8th in points defense.

-24 in turnover differential probably had more to do with the defensive rankings than anything else.

The only reason anyone ever thought that defense was any good because the level of competition we faced was pathetic. Offenses led by QBs who had no business starting a game in the NFL. Tebow, Hanie, Painter, Boller, etc.

This defense has never had the potential talent to be top 10 at any point since 2008, and that's why I say middle of the pack is best case scenario for this group.

It'd be different if Carr was here and we had a game changer on the DL. We don't.

Doesn't account for yards allowed. Defense was just as bad as the offense last year. The truest defensive ranking is yards per play and the Chiefs were 27th.

It's silly to think that you view Carr as a difference maker, but ignore the fact that Poe and full-season Houston are enormous upgrades over what we had in 2011. Again, we have one of the best pass rushing tandems of OLBs of 3-4 defenses in the NFL. I still don't know why that matters a lot less to you than the D-line which, in Ryan's 3-4, is a lot more about versatility and holding your position (which our linemen can do) than about being some terror in the backfield.

You're not fielding a top 10 defense with that group up front.

Combined DL pressures for the 2009 Jets: 42

Combined DL pressures for the 2012 Chiefs: 14
Combined DL pressures for the 2011 Chiefs 25 (10 of which came from Wallace Gilberry)

Starting to get the picture?

That Jets defense was #4 in the NFL in YPC allowed. Last year we were 25th.

You're asking for a quantum leap which just isn't happening.

So scheme has nothing to do with those numbers?

Homers always think scheme is going to fix a defense that has shitty players.

I'm not saying this defense is going to suck. But if you think those players are part of a top 10 unit, and are trying to make comparisons to the 2009 Jets (who also had vastly superior safety play with Leonhard and Rhodes), you're off the reservation.

No people that understand that there are different defensive philosophies in the NFL understand that numbers can be presented in a fashion that is favorable to a person's agenda.

I never said they would be top 10, I was just calling you on your awful presentation of statistics.

Scheme is not tripling the amount of pressure we get from our DL.

Yeah. We get the picture. You can't tell the difference between a defensive scheme and a punt formation.

But I'll bet the gap won't be as large as you presented it either.

You wanted to show how superior the other team was by under-cutting ours, plain and simple. But it can't be done that way because there were two different approaches to each teams defense, therefore your argument is invalid.

That's all I was pointing out.

It doesn't matter. You're talking about a vast chasm between DL ability in these two teams.

Sione Pouha was the #1 ranked nose tackle against the run in 2009.

Shaun Ellis is literally on a different planet than Tyson Jackson when it comes to being an NFL player.

Oh, and Kerry Rhodes was the top safety in football.

I'll be very happy if our defense is ranked #16.

Gunther will fix everything.

You need to ask yourself what really is the main difference in these stats. Is it players or is it scheme?

Crennel's read and react, two-gap, hold 'em up 34 or Sutton's one-gap, attack at the snap 34.

As I've already stated, Crennel was putting handcuffs on these guys, especially the defensive line. As well, you were looking at a #2 CB in either Routt or Arenas who wasn't very good in press coverage and a safety position where Lewis was hurt. In addition, you had a MLB who was hungover or drunk and psychotic every single Sunday.

As well, they were on the field against the run for the vast majority of the season in 2012 due to the offensive ineptitude of Daboll and Cassel.

And yet Hali and Houston still manage 20 sacks between them, DJ is one of the best ILB in the NFL and Berry is one of the top strong safeties despite dog shit defensive play calling and playing against road grading running plays all season long.

We've upgraded at RDE, and the new scheme should be a substantially better fit for guys like Poe, Bailey and Jackson. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised to see Poe rotate out to the LDE spot and Powe and Toribio man the middle in a 46 type of alignment. Powe showed an ability to collapse the pocket in the 2012 preseason consistently from the nose.

I'm absolutely befuddled at your negativism regarding the potential for this defense in 2013. From a personnel standpoint, it's damn near perfect for what Sutton is going to run.

Eh...whatever. Keep standing on the street corner and screaming to the skies...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DAC0VEMMFH...nd+is+Near.gif

Time will tell, I think we'll be top 15 for sure.

It's not negative to say the #27 defense can improve to the middle of the pack.

It is, however, absolute insanity to say it has a chance to be top 10.

Color me insane.

I absolutely believe that when the 2013 season is over, the Chiefs defense will be ranked in the top 10.

Don't forget we got some pretty good quarterbacks to play this year as well:

Tony Romo
Eli Manning
Matt Schaub
Peyton Manning (Twice)
Phillip Rivers (Twice)
RGIII
Andrew Luck

We have 9 games with quarterbacks in the top half of the league.

My main concern is continuity in the defense. We have so many new faces that will vie for starting time that the cohesion might not be there immediately. That is the only thing that is keeping me from thinking these guys will be a top 10 defense. Personnel, I don't think, will be the issue.

Tyson Jackson and Kendrick Lewis are shit players in any scheme.

smith has significantly more natural skill than cassel but he hasn't been a significantly better player.

Imo Cassel and Smith are in the same classification of QB.


A - franchise QB that makes players around him better
B - Winning elite QB
C - competent QB that can play on a winning team
D - backup that you don't want playing for any extended length of time
F - Not NFL level

A - Brady,Manning
B - Flacco,Roethlisberger
C - Alex Smith(C+)Matt Cassel(C-)

I think that the defense is pretty well set and the vast majority of it are veterans (also consider that DeVito is probably the most experienced in the specific scheme Sutton will run):


That's three new guys, with DeVito very experienced in the scheme. The rest of this starting group has three years of starting playing experience together (with Poe being the exception, but he started for the entire 2012 season).

This unit should have excellent continuity and cohesion right from the get go.

I have no worries about the D other than Smith (I smell some Bartee in that guy) and FS.

I think we'll end up top 15...

over/under how many games Lewis plays before he gets hurt?

Everything will work perfectly, sure.

so, you think AS is going to get sacked 45 times, commit at least 25 fumbles & lose all his games this season?

funny I did not see that in his post