Thank God the Cardinals fans are here to straighten all this shit out. Such a blessing......

Nobody has ever once said Madson was throwing at him on purpose. Never a single time. Jays included. You've been arguing with ghosts there.

Now please please please explain to me how Donaldson would have had any idea that the pitch from Volquez up and in was a changeup at the moment the incident occured - a pitch that by its very nature is designed to look like a fastball right up to the moment it reaches the plate. If that pitch is coming at your face and you'd just been hit in your last at bat, you're absolutely going to be convinced it's a fastball. The fact that he spun out of the box and didn't escalate things beyond that actually demonstrated a fair amount of self control. And by the end of the AB when he flipped the bat, of course he's still pissed because he still things Volquez threw a fastball at his chin. Every player in professional baseball would still be pissed there.

A changeup isn't like a slider; there's not that tell-tale dot that can give it away. Everything on that pitch apart from what it does in the last 10 feet is going to look exactly like a fastball and by the time the pitch was 10 feet away, Donaldson had already spun out of there because it looked like heat to him. Yes, you're being myopic if you think Donaldson instigated that or that he didn't have cause for his irritation.

Thank God Royals fans don't have a substantive rebuttal and instead just want to talk shit. Please, continue with the screen name smack talk and 'derp' comments; most of you fellas have been fountains of reasonable discourse and have just COVERED Royals fans in glory in this thread.

Nice work, all. You've sure shown us stupid Cardinals fans that you can rationally discuss baseball.

Here we are on 08/06 listening to the Pope Cards fans pontificating about an AL game (beer league!!!!) from 08/02.

I know I'm the better for it. and my baseball sins will be washed away.

Godammit 08/05!!!

Forgive me again....

I hope to one day be able to see the world from the high horse some of you live on. That's pretty much all I have to say at this point.

I don't think the Royals are a bunch of innocent choir boys. I've been openly critical of Yordano all season. Probably been one of his biggest critics.

I also don't think the Royals have to apologize for standing up for themselves. Every baseball team does it. The Cardinals do it frequently. And if they felt someone was stealing their signs, or if one of their players is HBP and knocked out of a game, they will do something about it. That is the heart of this issue. You can all write 10000 word diatribes if you want. The Blue Jays have been in their fair share of scrums the last two years too. You know why? Because everyone does it.

And now we have to sit and be lectured on the rules of baseball. As if every team doesn't stand up for themselves. Heck most of you are Cards fans. You're the same fanbase that will give a 5 minute standing O every time they roll Bob Gibson out there, and he was one of the most feared pitchers ever. Point being that most every good team stands up for themselves. That's not immaturity. You can certainly argue that's not how the game should be played. But it is. By everyone.

You guys are just the gift that keeps giving. Again, thanks:thumb:

Of ****ing stow it.

High horse my ass, you people just don't feel like speaking to a very clear set of facts so you continue to deflect. Cardinals fans this, rules of baseball that. You weren't ****ing lectured on the rulebook - I gave an explanation as to why Donaldson is pissed and cited MLB rules as justification; what's the damn problem?

Nobody here is being holier than thou - I'm asking you to speak to very direct questions that have nothing to do with anybodies fandom you can't do it so you just jump on the 'derp Cardinals' dogpile.

Like I said, you fellas have acquitted yourself quite nicely in this particular pile of shit. Apart from Duncan, not a one of you are capable of rationally discussing baseball. Fine - enjoy your circle jerk. Donaldson shot first, or some other such make believe bullshit.

What rules weren't followed? It is up to the umpire to determine intent. I agree a lot of umps would've tossed Madson there. Wolf actually showed restraint. I'm assuming because he didn't think Madson would intentionally load the bases.

Was Madson trying to pitch inside? Of course he was. Is that illegal? No.

LMAO

I feel like I'm reading the screeds of prepubescent teen. Because nobody knows as much as Cards fan.

I know! Best fans in baseball! Yesterday, they fell down 0-3 early in the game and they all quit to watch reality TV. Literally. No posts.

Super awesome Cardinals fans on this board! Apparently, they watch more Royals baseball than Cardinals baseball!

Oh, but don't worry, they want to ban me from their thread ...

at least Hamas has watched the game now so he can argue that Donaldson was nearly beaned in the head in the first inning ... with 105 MPH heat !

Hit batters, stealing signs, and hard slides are nothing lets start a major brawl over being called whiny bitches and tapping the shin guards of the catcher.

What the **** are you talking about? Yeah, he was a bit spooked, understandably so, but he knew it was a change after the initial impulse of "oh, ****" washed over him.

The last 10 feet? Makes no sense (in baseball terms).

Pretty simple: dude was pumped up and on edge. Pitch (any pitch doesn't ****ing matter) comes close, and he loses his mind. Dude was being driven entirely by emotion and not thinking logically.

It happens. It makes him a ****ing idiot to the rationale world, but it happens.

Here's the thing:

Cardinals fans have been put into a tricky rhetorical position because of how the whole BFIB thing has begun to backfire in recent years. In any given baseball discussion, a Cardinals fan who insists that they are correct about something or that the opposing party doesn't understand something -- even if that Cardinals fan is absolutely right -- suffers the disadvantage of appearing snooty/on a high horse/etc. It's unfair, but that's where we are: assertions of superiority, including most varieties of message board bluster, feed into the larger Cards fan narrative that they always feel superior to everyone else.

The rhetorical paths to getting around that are narrow and few, but they exist. Hamas and DJ's Left Nut are certainly smart enough to understand the rhetorical position that they are in. But you guys (well, Hamas especially) have chosen to argue in ways that totally support that Cards fan narrative anyway. It doesn't matter that you have level takes and it doesn't matter that you're insulting some posters that exhibit the worst parts of the Royals fanbase -- the Kansas Jayhawks fan with Jayhawks aspirations for the Royals -- because the rhetorical approach you've chosen takes the focus away from whatever those Royals fans are saying and puts it onto you and your status as Cards fans acting in concert with everyone's expectations of Cards fans.

When's recess?

I'd respect Hamas a lot more if he wouldn't have tried to argue for 3 pages without watching the ****ing game. Donaldson almost got beaned in the head in the 1st! LMAO. It hit him in the bicep. What about Donaldson getting hit in the 7th! (He struck out). And my God! Volquez almost took his head off with a changeup!

The pitch recognition for ML hitters is unbelievable. "Then if they recognize it why do they swing and miss????" Because the timing is such that any commitment at all, getting fooled in the slightest, absolutely ****s you.

So, yeah, Donaldson was edgy and initially fooled on a change up and in. But a ****ing MVP candidate ultimately knew what that pitch was; he was just too caught up in the moment to back down, IMO, and the slightest anything fed his anger.

There is a difference between recognizing it out of the hand and recognizing the pitch overall.

The first paragraph is true and I don't dislike either of these guys. I still have zero ****s given over the entire incident. To me, it was a Sunday afternoon game with some chin music, a few HBP'S and then some bad acting in the form of ridiculous post game tweets, since deleted.

But, I guess I've watched and played enough baseball to know that's all it was. And we can't expect everybody to feel the same way.

But I also don't care to hear the grandiose, rhapsodic waxings of cards fans who simply must interject their "you're incapable of ...into this thread.

Haven't you got something better to do. Go get your pink razor and trim those vaginal pubes.

Donaldson is a flaming douchebag.

The Royals players clearly feel the world is out to get them (rightly or wrongly) and are taking matters into their own hands when they get involved in these scrums.

There. Can't we all get along, now?

Are they clutch though?

O. LMAO

Who gives a shit if his fit was towards the ump or the pitcher? No one is arguing that, no one cares. Stop beating up the strawman.

This debate is getting a little old......

No shit.. not often a GDT gets more posts after the game itself than it did during the game.

Its approaching ASS11 levels.

I'm with you on all counts. I've mostly been trolling or poking at people in this thread because I don't have anything I feel compelled to defend or pillory.

This thread has just polished off it's 3rd High Life and is eyeballing the Johnnie Walker...Blue.

All I said was that if any Royal was going to be suspended it was him as he was stupid enough to practically admit to hitting Donaldson on purpose (which usually gets you suspended). I didn't say he should have been, nor do I care either way. In fact, as a Jays fan, I'd obviously prefer the Royals winning more games the rest of the way.

The warning was issued because it was very obvious to everyone that Volquez hit him intentionally, especially because he stared him down after doing it. Had nothing to do with JD.