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-   -   Chiefs Veach is the best GM in the NFL (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=332394)

O.city 10-17-2022 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 16537480)
Buffalo hasn’t drafted early in the draft either for a few years and still has a good LT and a fearsome DL to show for it.

Also, Christian Darrisaw went with pick #23 last year. He could have easily been had instead of making a panic move for OBJ.
The Bills "fearsome" DL that hit Mahomes 3 times in the playoff game and just added Von Miller to the tune of 120 million dollars this offseason? That one?

BryanBusby 10-17-2022 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 16537464)
FYP, Autocorrect is an asshole
It really can be. Thanks!

RunKC 10-17-2022 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16537484)
The Bills "fearsome" DL that hit Mahomes 3 times in the playoff game and just added Von Miller to the tune of 120 million dollars this offseason? That one?
He won’t talk about Buffalo drafting a bust in Ed Oliver and AJ Espenesa also being bad leading to them having to pay Von Miller

JPH83 10-17-2022 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 16537334)
Interestingly, Dorsey has been with the Lions for going on two years. I'm not sure what to make of that, but thought it was interesting.
Yeah, no-one wants Dorsey back, for good reason. Just thought being GM when we drafted Mahomes, Hill and Kelce was equally interesting, wasn't it.

The best argument for Veach is...he's won it. If staylor's original post is right, then that's probably the clincher. Beane has put together a great roster but not won it, yet. Brown's Bengals roster building looked good, but they've been rubbish this year. Chargers missed the playoffs last year despite the hype.

Also, there's plenty of Veach picks I look at an think meh, but the Bills have also drafted some absolute ass under Beane. They've got better, but really it's the two big trades that look like they've paid off.

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 02:40 PM
Yeah, hindsight being 20/20 I wouldn't make the Brown trade at all, but even knowing what we knew then why did Veach think he could get Brown on a "team friendly" deal. He refused to play his natural position on the OL at Baltimore and hadn't even hired a proper agent apparently. What was there that made Veach think he'd be reasonable in negotiations? It's still baffling the Chiefs put that out publicly.

Pitt Gorilla 10-17-2022 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 16537257)
So you’re hanging your hat on Veach turning the defense from complete shit to just okay?

Also, Veach has been credited with the OL rebuild. Well, the tackles are as bad as ever, so…
Veach should probably also get credit for drafting Nick Bolton in the same second round where he got Creed Humphrey.

Pitt Gorilla 10-17-2022 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537502)
Yeah, hindsight being 20/20 I wouldn't make the Brown trade at all, but even knowing what we knew then why did Veach think he could get Brown on a "team friendly" deal. He refused to play his natural position on the OL at Baltimore and hadn't even hired a proper agent apparently. What was there that made Veach think he'd be reasonable in negotiations? It's still baffling the Chiefs put that out publicly.
Why wouldn't you make that trade? Would you have used the first we traded to draft Bolton?

Woogieman 10-17-2022 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16537463)
LT's and edge players get drafted early in the draft and or signed for pretty large contracts.

We've not really done either in a while specifically there.
Yes, any wonder why we are lacking at T, WR, and Edge? Those positions are in highest demand and we draft 28-32 every year. Filling those holes with the 2nd tier of talent always comes with more risk and more subsequent failure.

tredadda 10-17-2022 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16537415)
Lol, nice hot take. Like we should expect the GM to just pull an entire top-10 caliber OL, complete with a pair of All-Pro OTs your n a single draft class. Okay.

He also just pulled a All-Pro C and a G out of the draft, and signed another premier level G. Rebuilt 3/5th of the OL in a few weeks. Do you guys have any idea how incredibly good that is? And OBJ might or might not end up being our LT down the road, but let’s be honest: he’s a huge improvement over who we had in that SB loss at TB.

Bottom line this OL is light years better than that abomination, and our demolishing of TB proved it. Don’t tell me this OL isn’t good enough. That’s job BS. They aren’t perfect, but no one in the NFL has perfect. And there’s still some upside to be seen with these guys.

And I have news for you guys: there no Travis Kelce 2.0 waiting out there. We aren’t going to find another HOF TE in next year’s draft. Or the next one. Or ever. He’s like Tyreek; there is no substitute.

What is going to happen is Andy/veach will find two guys to replace most of what Kelce has been doing. And that’s literally the best we can expect. Come on, you should know better than to think you can just draft another Travis or Tyreek. That’s just stupid.

And what idiot thinks any team can just take 12 picks and draft perfect fits at every position of need? Show me a GM that has consistently did that.

The best GMs ever maybe hit on a third of their picks.

So since Veach became GM he’s rebuilt the defense attorney on every level, and last season he rebuilt the IOL from scratch. Yes, he reached for Hardman, but at the time he was scrambling to potentially replace Tyreek’s ability to take the top off the defense, right? And Hardman may not be Tyreek (stupid to think he was going to), but he definitely can do that, and he’s becoming a complete WR.

Lastly, in 2019,Veach put that roster together with about 30% from the draft, 30% from free agency/waivers, and about 25% from trades. Give or take a few percentage points here and there.

Veach has drafted fairly well, and in some cases extremely well. He managed to figure out how to sign Pat to a gigantism deal that’s also somehow team-friendly, ditto CJ, as well as extending Kelce. He turned Trading Hill not 5 picks, several of whom are promising.

You guys really need to look around the league, or jeez, just look at the shit show we had right in KC before Andy showed up.

CP is filled with a lot of whiny spoiled brats lately.
Give up. KC lost to Buffalo because of a missed FG and bad play by Mahomes. That means Buffalo is clearly better and their GM is the best ever and ours is trash. The same group will always be this way unless KC goes undefeated every season and wins the SB every year.

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 16537521)
Why wouldn't you make that trade? Would you have used the first we traded to draft Bolton?
I don't know, maybe trade up for an actual talent at LT as has been stated probably a thousand times at this point.

JPH83 10-17-2022 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 16537480)
Buffalo hasn’t drafted early in the draft either for a few years and still has a good LT and a fearsome DL to show for it.

Also, Christian Darrisaw went with pick #23 last year. He could have easily been had instead of making a panic move for OBJ.
I'll grant you they have a decent LT from a R2 pick, but they moved back up to get him. Their DL is also MUCH better for having Miller. Rousseau and Basham look very good, but Oliver has been pretty average for a 9th overall pick. Beane's thrown resources at it.

BryanBusby 10-17-2022 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537531)
I don't know, maybe trade up for an actual talent at LT as has been stated probably a thousand times at this point.
Oh. So you'd rather bitch about the interior line sucking and lack of linebackers? Got it.

tredadda 10-17-2022 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537531)
I don't know, maybe trade up for an actual talent at LT as has been stated probably a thousand times at this point.
Without the benefit of hindsight who would you draft at LT? We also would not have gotten Creed and or Bolton. Which LT should the Chiefs draft this year? It’s easy to criticize on what should have been in hindsight.

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanBusby (Post 16537537)
Oh. So you'd rather bitch about the interior line sucking and lack of linebackers? Got it.
Well, yeah. That's a much easier problem to fix than shit at both T spots which we're dealing with now.

tredadda 10-17-2022 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanBusby (Post 16537537)
Oh. So you'd rather bitch about the interior line sucking and lack of linebackers? Got it.
Plus if said LT did not pan out he would do the same thing except complain that Veach gave up multiple picks for a bust LT while missing out on Bolton and or Humphrey who we would have been able to get had we not given up picks for a bust LT. It’s so easy in Madden and with hindsight.

BryanBusby 10-17-2022 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537546)
Well, yeah. That's a much easier problem to fix than shit at both T spots which we're dealing with now.
Don't really think it's a difficultly issue as much as it's a quantity issue at this point. Too many things need a fixin' at once and only so much capital.

They will fix the tackle spots, too.

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 16537540)
Without the benefit of hindsight who would you draft at LT? We also would not have gotten Creed and or Bolton. Which LT should the Chiefs draft this year? It’s easy to criticize on what should have been in hindsight.
You can go back and read to verify, I was pounding the table for Rashawn Slater and was comfortable giving up more than the Mahomes package to get him.

KChiefs1 10-17-2022 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16537285)
If you had to list the 3 most important guys in the building for our success you'd probably say:

- Mahomes
- Reid
- Veach (for his role in getting Mahomes) or Hunt (for bringing in Reid)

Right? I think that's absolutely how it should be. The guy who wins you games, the guy who puts him in a position to succeed, and the guys who got those guys.

In all honesty I think Veach's legacy starts now. If he effectively builds a roster that is enough to win a SB with a QB earning top dollar, that's when he's elevated alongside Reid and Mahomes. If not, he's like every GM, important, possibly very good, but a distant 3rd of 4th in the pecking order of who is responsible for this golden era.

I’d rank them:

1) Clark Hunt - hired Andy
2) Andy Reid
3) Patrick Mahomes
4) Brett Veach


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tredadda 10-17-2022 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537557)
You can go back and read to verify, I was pounding the table for Rashawn Slater and was comfortable giving up more than the Mahomes package to get him.
Cool. Who this year should KC draft at LT?

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 03:13 PM
Why the hell would they have drafted a LT this year? They were already sunken in on the Brown Jr. Experiment

OKchiefs 10-17-2022 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 16537575)
Cool. Who this year should KC draft at LT?
Too early to say who will be expected to go where in the 2023 draft, but KC shod be willing to part with a 2023 1st, 2024 1st, and perhaps an extra 3rd if necessary to trade up high enough for a left tackle. Then take another WR and DE in the 2nd/3rd and you are well on your way to addressing the most pressing needs.

staylor26 10-17-2022 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 16537480)
Buffalo hasn’t drafted early in the draft either for a few years and still has a good LT and a fearsome DL to show for it.

Also, Christian Darrisaw went with pick #23 last year. He could have easily been had instead of making a panic move for OBJ.
Buffalo has invested multiple early picks on the DL the last few years, and still had to go sign Von Miller just for their pass rush to even have a chance against us.

Again, you're absolutely ****ing clueless.

As for the second part of your post, you have no idea what teams were willing to trade down before pick 23.

Do you think the Colts or the Titans had any desire to give the Chiefs a fair deal to trade up to 21 or 22?

"Could have easily" is such a dumb ****ing thing to say when you have absolutely no clue what was going on in war rooms. I bet you didn't even know those 2 teams were picking before the Vikings. GMing is pretty easy when you constantly operate in hindsight, and get to pretend like it's making trades on Madden.

Pitt Gorilla 10-17-2022 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 16537586)
Too early to say who will be expected to go where in the 2023 draft, but KC shod be willing to part with a 2023 1st, 2024 1st, and perhaps an extra 3rd if necessary to trade up high enough for a left tackle. Then take another WR and DE in the 2nd/3rd and you are well on your way to addressing the most pressing needs.
Who, specifically, would you be willing to give up TWO firsts and a third to draft?

Pitt Gorilla 10-17-2022 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537531)
I don't know, maybe trade up for an actual talent at LT as has been stated probably a thousand times at this point.
Who is the LT you'd trade up for this coming year?

staylor26 10-17-2022 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 16537593)
Who, specifically, would you be willing to give up TWO firsts and a third to draft?
He'll tell you long after the draft when he can look back and say "hey, this guy is good, could've easily traded up to get him!".

Guaranteed he wasn't banging the table for the Chiefs to give up a lot to go get Darrisaw leading up to the 2021 draft.

tredadda 10-17-2022 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 16537586)
Too early to say who will be expected to go where in the 2023 draft, but KC shod be willing to part with a 2023 1st, 2024 1st, and perhaps an extra 3rd if necessary to trade up high enough for a left tackle. Then take another WR and DE in the 2nd/3rd and you are well on your way to addressing the most pressing needs.
You give up a QB haul to move up you better be drafting Roaf. You already have issues with who KC has drafted in the 2nd regarding WRs and you want them to get one there? Also if DE is such a huge need why are you waiting until round 3? I don’t think your strategy is well thought out and it screams desperation. Sewell was a can’t miss prospect at LT and from what I see he is struggling. No one is guaranteed but they better be for what you want to give up for him.

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 16537597)
Who is the LT you'd trade up for this coming year?
I don't know. Haven't looked into them all that closely. The guy I really wanted is long, long out of our reach at this point.

tredadda 10-17-2022 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537580)
Why the hell would they have drafted a LT this year? They were already sunken in on the Brown Jr. Experiment
Except they weren’t.

staylor26 10-17-2022 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 16537604)
You give up a QB haul to move up you better be drafting Roaf. You already have issues with who KC has drafted in the 2nd regarding WRs and you want them to get one there? Also if DE is such a huge need why are you waiting until round 3? I don’t think your strategy is well thought out and it screams desperation. Sewell was a can’t miss prospect at LT and from what I see he is struggling. No one is guaranteed but they better be for what you want to give up for him.
He doesn't care. He gets to live in fantasy future land where GMing is as easy as having a time machine.

Rasputin 10-17-2022 03:26 PM
Brant vlearck is still best GM in the NFL.

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 16537609)
Except they weren’t.
LMAO Wut. Franchise tagged for at least this season and were in heavy negotiations to make him our LT for the long term. I'd be willing to wager he's played himself out of any realistic chances of striking a deal both he and the Chiefs would be satisfied with but going into the 2022 draft Brown Jr absolutely was pencilled in as our LT for the foreseeable future.

tredadda 10-17-2022 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537624)
LMAO Wut. Franchise tagged for at least this season and were in heavy negotiations to make him our LT for the long term. I'd be willing to wager he's played himself out of any realistic chances of striking a deal both he and the Chiefs would be satisfied with but going into the 2022 draft Brown Jr absolutely was pencilled in as our LT for the foreseeable future.
They could have drafted a LT had one been there when they drafted that they felt was better than Brown. Had they been all in on him Veach would not have crafted the contract he did. He did it because he wasn’t 100% on Brown, but he was the best option. Had KC really felt he was the long term future they would have given him the contract he wanted.

OKchiefs 10-17-2022 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 16537593)
Who, specifically, would you be willing to give up TWO firsts and a third to draft?
Okay, then let’s put it this way. How would you address left tackle next year? Would you give OBJ his asking price (likely $20+ million)? If not, what’s your solution. They certainly have to do something. Veach is the one paid the big bucks to find an answer at LT. Yes hindsight is 20/20, but it’s pretty clear at this point OBJ isn’t the answer. Yes grow LT is hard, but we have no choice.

OKchiefs 10-17-2022 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin (Post 16537621)
Brant vlearck is still best GM in the NFL.
As recently as this offseason you were still saying CEH and Hardman were excellent players.

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 03:38 PM
I mean, he still offered him a top of the market deal. Not being willing to cave to unreasonable contract demands by Brown and his agent doesn't mean he wasn't still sold on him as the future. Was willing to try and let him go out and earn that. Which he has so far failed in spectacular fashion to do.

tredadda 10-17-2022 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 16537639)
Okay, then let’s put it this way. How would you address left tackle next year? Would you give OBJ his asking price (likely $20+ million)? If not, what’s your solution. They certainly have to do something. Veach is the one paid the big bucks to find an answer at LT. Yes hindsight is 20/20, but it’s pretty clear at this point OBJ isn’t the answer. Yes grow LT is hard, but we have no choice.
You make some good points here. Brown is not looking like the long term solution and Veach will need to fix that. BUT you can’t give up that kind of haul for any non QB prospect unless he is a generational talent.

BryanBusby 10-17-2022 03:40 PM
The LT supply is good in 2023.

Form a one year agreement with OBJ that would guarantee him UFA in 2024 and let him play one more year there.

Draft tackle early and let them get experience at RT and move to LT in 2024.

If OBJ bombs at LT again, offer him a strong RT deal. If he declines, take the comp 3rd in 2025.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537646)
I mean, he still offered him a top of the market deal. Not being willing to cave to unreasonable contract demands by Brown and his agent doesn't mean he wasn't still sold on him as the future. Was willing to try and let him go out and earn that. Which he has so far failed in spectacular fashion to do.
The deal was really a front loaded 2 year deal. It's not like his contract was gonna crush the Chiefs.

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 03:42 PM
Why would he agree to that and why would we do it? He wants to secure the long term money ASAP. If he hasn't shown the proclivity to be a top 5 LT in our offense by now what would change between now and then?

OKchiefs 10-17-2022 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 16537648)
You make some good points here. Brown is not looking like the long term solution and Veach will need to fix that. BUT you can’t give up that kind of haul for any non QB prospect unless he is a generational talent.
Maybe an extra 3rd is too much, but two 1st round picks for a position as important as LT isn’t unheard of. Would you have given two 1sts for a healthy Rashawn Slater? You’re certainly taking a risk that the player ends up being a bust, but I don’t know what else you do. You can’t just throw in a journeyman at left tackle. Chances of finding one later in the draft are slim, particularly one who can contribute soon. So the way I see it you either pay OBJ or trade up for one, I don’t see any other options.

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 03:45 PM
I never said it would have. I have no problem with the deal we offered, although I'd be incredibly disappointed in his play so far.

BryanBusby 10-17-2022 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537656)
Why would he agree to that and why would we do it? He wants to secure the long term money ASAP. If he hasn't shown the proclivity to be a top 5 LT in our offense by now what would change between now and then?
This again. Sigh.

The Chiefs would do it because they're not going to start a rookie at LT. It's just not going to happen. Not even the #1 overall pick in the draft was good enough for Andy to start at LT.

It's not going to happen.

Take a look at the shitbarn in FA. You can definitely downgrade at the position.

Why would OBJ do it? Because it would be the best way to guarantee he's going to hit the open market in 2024.

OKchiefs 10-17-2022 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanBusby (Post 16537666)
This again. Sigh.

The Chiefs would do it because they're not going to start a rookie at LT. It's just not going to happen. Not even the #1 overall pick in the draft was good enough for Andy to start at LT.

It's not going to happen.

Take a look at the shitbarn in FA. You can definitely downgrade at the position.

Why would OBJ do it? Because it would be the best way to guarantee he's going to hit the open market in 2024.
He would hit the open market in 2024 anyways. KC isn’t franchising him three years in a row. He would make around $24 million in 2024 (I think) on a third consecutive tag, that’s way too much.

BryanBusby 10-17-2022 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 16537668)
He would hit the open market in 2024 anyways. KC isn’t franchising him three years in a row. He would make around $24 million in 2024 (I think) on a third consecutive tag, that’s way too much.
Transition tag to tag and trade. They would still control his rights.

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanBusby (Post 16537666)
This again. Sigh.

The Chiefs would do it because they're not going to start a rookie at LT. It's just not going to happen. Not even the #1 overall pick in the draft was good enough for Andy to start at LT.

It's not going to happen.

Take a look at the shitbarn in FA. You can definitely downgrade at the position.

Why would OBJ do it? Because it would be the best way to guarantee he's going to hit the open market in 2024.
Uhh, OBJ probably isn't willingly waiting another year for his long term money. He was already on the cusp of sitting out without a long term deal this season. I wouldn't be so keen to play that game a second time.

PHOG 10-17-2022 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRyan (Post 16536723)
No disrespect intended, but I think an argument could be made that the Bills coaching beat the Bills in that playoff game more-so than the Bills players.

Not squib kicking the ball with 13 seconds left lost them the game. And playing that horrible defense letting Kelce run free was bad too.
Didn't they squib it yesterday? And the result?

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 03:57 PM
Especially if he knows he's a placeholder for a new LT we already drafted. At that point he and his agent probably shift tactics to force their way out of the organization.

TwistedChief 10-17-2022 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 16537668)
He would hit the open market in 2024 anyways. KC isn’t franchising him three years in a row. He would make around $24 million in 2024 (I think) on a third consecutive tag, that’s way too much.
You can’t tag him 3 years in a row. He’d be a free agent.

BryanBusby 10-17-2022 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537678)
Uhh, OBJ probably isn't willingly waiting another year for his long term money. He was already on the cusp of sitting out without a long term deal this season. I wouldn't be so keen to play that game a second time.
He's not going to get it anywhere with his 2022 film.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 16537712)
You can’t tag him 3 years in a row. He’d be a free agent.
I think you can transition after franchise unless the last cba did away with that.

OKchiefs 10-17-2022 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 16537712)
You can’t tag him 3 years in a row. He’d be a free agent.
That’s fine, my point still stands. There’s zero reason why Brown would agree to a one-year team friendly contract. You either extend him or let him walk. Extending him would be a huge mistake, so walk it is.

DRM08 10-17-2022 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHOG (Post 16537681)
Didn't they squib it yesterday? And the result?
Yeah...KC pulled off the same thing yesterday with 1 less second on the clock and fewer timeouts on the clock as well. Lol

13 second FG drive with multiple timeouts
12 second FG drive with only 1 timeout

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanBusby (Post 16537714)
He's not going to get it anywhere with his 2022 film.


I think you can transition after franchise unless the last cba did away with that.
Agreed. But from how we've seen him operate it still won't stop him from doing everything in his power to get out of the organization if we aren't willing to give him his long term deal and let him play LT.

BryanBusby 10-17-2022 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537722)
Agreed. But from how we've seen him operate it still won't stop him from doing everything in his power to get out of the organization if we aren't willing to give him his long term deal and let him play LT.
He can sit. I think if they offered him a strong one year prove-it offer in 2023 with a 100% guaranteed market release in 2024, his side would eventually reluctantly accept it.

OKchiefs 10-17-2022 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanBusby (Post 16537724)
He can sit. I think if they offered him a strong one year prove-it offer in 2023 with a 100% guaranteed market release in 2024, his side would eventually reluctantly accept it.
What’s he going to prove in 2023 that he hasn’t already proven. OBJ came into the NFL with extremely poor athleticism and nothing about his play has dispelled that notion. He’s not going to magically become a good pass blocking OT.

BryanBusby 10-17-2022 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKchiefs (Post 16537725)
What’s he going to prove in 2023 that he hasn’t already proven. OBJ came into the NFL with extremely poor athleticism and nothing about his play has dispelled that notion. He’s not going to magically become a good pass blocking OT.
Son of a bitch. You really are RedDawgII

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanBusby (Post 16537724)
He can sit. I think if they offered him a strong one year prove-it offer in 2023 with a 100% guaranteed market release in 2024, his side would eventually reluctantly accept it.
So you're willing to tag him at about 20 million and have him potentially sit? That would effectively nullify our available cap space for an average at best LT. And if he decides to follow through and sit out the rookie starts anyway. What have you accomplished then?

BryanBusby 10-17-2022 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537728)
So you're willing to tag him at about 20 million and have him potentially sit? That would effectively nullify our available cap space for an average at best LT. And if he decides to follow through and sit out the rookie starts anyway. What have you accomplished then?
Sitting is not going to generate him any dollars. Big difference in threatening to sit coming off a career year vs a down year.

If he does, you just have to start the rookie at LT and thank OBJ for the cap credits.

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanBusby (Post 16537733)
Sitting is not going to generate him any dollars. Big difference in threatening to sit coming off a career year vs a down year.

If he does, you just have to start the rookie at LT and thank OBJ for the cap credits.
His sense of self worth is hilariously inflated. It's why he feels entitled to a top of the line deal and to play LT in the first place. He (and by extension his noob agent) won't see it that way.

BryanBusby 10-17-2022 04:37 PM
We will see. 2022 might humble them. Might not.

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 04:40 PM
I doubt it. Wouldn't surprise me if the fact he hired that noob agent so late in the process is that he was the only one willing to tell Brown what he wanted to hear instead of what he needed to hear.

BryanBusby 10-17-2022 04:42 PM
I mean worst case scenario, his idiot agent talks him into sitting and the Chiefs will take a much needed cap credit the next year

Sassy Squatch 10-17-2022 04:45 PM
Still, for as absolutely frustrating as Brown has been I'm grateful as **** to the 49ers for outbidding us on Broke Back Trent Williams. That dude just can't stay healthy. At all.

tredadda 10-17-2022 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 16537646)
I mean, he still offered him a top of the market deal. Not being willing to cave to unreasonable contract demands by Brown and his agent doesn't mean he wasn't still sold on him as the future. Was willing to try and let him go out and earn that. Which he has so far failed in spectacular fashion to do.
He did but he offered very little guaranteed money. He didn’t cave to Brown’s demands. So he tagged him and now Brown is betting on himself and not winning. The way I see it, he must have thought Brown was better than who was available or he felt Brown could improve in year 2. As such he attacked other positions of need. He is by no means perfect, but I do think far to many people are overly critical and forgetting it could be far far worse.

RunKC 11-13-2022 02:17 PM
Raped the Giants for Toney. I can’t believe we got a talent like this for that cheap LMAO

trndobrd 11-13-2022 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16599807)
Raped the Giants for Toney. I can’t believe we got a talent like this for that cheap LMAO

Just think how productive Toney might be after he recovers from his injuries.

RealSNR 11-13-2022 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trndobrd (Post 16599835)
Just think how productive Toney might be after he recovers from his injuries.
He's got a fever for raping DBs!

BossChief 11-13-2022 03:01 PM
Who’s gonna start the “Clark Hunt is the best owner in the NFL” thread?

He hired Andy and Dorsey, then fired Dorsey and promoted Veach.

Tons of success.

Pitt Gorilla 11-13-2022 11:59 PM
The bolts stink because their big-name receivers are injured.
The bills are losing because their key secondary players are injured (at least, so claim their fans) .

The Chiefs lose corners, receivers, etc. and keep rolling because they aren't reliant on A guy or a couple guys at THOSE positions to win. Beach has, once again, cracked the code and has us firmly ahead of the curve.

RunKC 11-28-2022 10:56 AM
Sneed
Bolton
Creed

I would say these guys without a doubt are blue chippers drafted by Veach.

I’d say these guys aren’t blue chippers but “hits” that have done a good job for rookie contract players. You could also make a case for them being blue chippers:

Gay
Hardman
Smith-he’s close to being a blue chipper IMO

I think McDuffie, Karlaftis and Pacheco will be in this group soon

O.city 11-28-2022 10:57 AM
The Chiefs have a HOF head coach and a HOF QB in his prime. The other pieces may change a bit around those 2 but results won't.

Rasputin 11-28-2022 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16631289)
The Chiefs have a HOF head coach and a HOF QB in his prime. The other pieces may change a bit around those 2 but results won't.
need to include the HOF TE we have a trifecta in HOF Chiefs Kingdom

Rasputin 11-28-2022 11:15 AM
Chris Jones is playing at a HOF level

Rain Man 11-28-2022 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16631286)
Sneed
Bolton
Creed

I would say these guys without a doubt are blue chippers drafted by Veach.

I’d say these guys aren’t blue chippers but “hits” that have done a good job for rookie contract players. You could also make a case for them being blue chippers:

Gay
Hardman
Smith-he’s close to being a blue chipper IMO

I think McDuffie, Karlaftis and Pacheco will be in this group soon

Toss Creed Humphrey into that top group as well. Wait, I misread.

Then toss Watson into the second group.

MahomesMagic 11-28-2022 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 16602890)
The bolts stink because their big-name receivers are injured.
The bills are losing because their key secondary players are injured (at least, so claim their fans) .

The Chiefs lose corners, receivers, etc. and keep rolling because they aren't reliant on A guy or a couple guys at THOSE positions to win. Beach has, once again, cracked the code and has us firmly ahead of the curve.
You seldom win trades when you trade quality for quantity but when your QB is Mahomes it worked well for both teams in KC and Miami.

htismaqe 11-28-2022 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin (Post 16631344)
Chris Jones is playing at a HOF level
Yep and with a couple more SB appearances, he might actually make it.

RealSNR 11-28-2022 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16631286)
Sneed
Bolton
Creed

I would say these guys without a doubt are blue chippers drafted by Veach.

I’d say these guys aren’t blue chippers but “hits” that have done a good job for rookie contract players. You could also make a case for them being blue chippers:

Gay
Hardman
Smith-he’s close to being a blue chipper IMO

I think McDuffie, Karlaftis and Pacheco will be in this group soon
I'll add that Khalen Saunders has played well enough this year to warrant being called a draft hit. I know he's approaching the end of his rookie deal and he's only been balling out for a season, but the point is he eventually put it together. He didn't massively implode like Speaks and he didn't stagnate like Kpassagnon.

If we extend him or re-sign him for even another season and he continues to produce like this, he should absolutely be considered a solid draft pick.

RunKC 11-28-2022 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealSNR (Post 16631420)
I'll add that Khalen Saunders has played well enough this year to warrant being called a draft hit. I know he's approaching the end of his rookie deal and he's only been balling out for a season, but the point is he eventually put it together. He didn't massively implode like Speaks and he didn't stagnate like Kpassagnon.

If we extend him or re-sign him for even another season and he continues to produce like this, he should absolutely be considered a solid draft pick.
Yeah I feel this way about Mike Danna too. He’s improved so much this season. He isn’t putting up big numbers but he’s gotten a lot of pressure on QB’s.

He was a late 5th rd pick, which with comp picks added pretty much makes him a 6th rd pick and he’s a nice player

Megatron96 11-28-2022 02:13 PM
I really like how Veach has constructed this team since 2018. When you consider the roster from 2017 and what it is now, there's an obvious growth occurring at nearly every level and phase. And we can now see a little more clearly what the vision is for this team, the kinds of players Veach wants to complete that vision and so forth. It's just great to see it all beginning to come together. Veach is a great GM, period.

ChiefsFanatic 11-28-2022 08:10 PM
So, I am sure that I will get roasted for this, but Veach seems to have an issue scouting and drafting receivers.

I think we could have moved up for Christian Watson, which is who I really wanted, or we could have taken Pickens.

Both, as of week 12, are clearly better than Sky Moore.

And Cornell Powell, despite being called up from the practice squad, was a wasted pick, as any JAG could give us the same production.

And honestly, he grossly overpaid for MVS based on his level of production, and quite frankly his issues with catching easy passes.

Do we still have the number 1 offense in the NFL? Yes, but MVS, Sky Moore, and Cornell Powell have absolutely nothing to do with that ranking.

Are these just a few misses, or does Veach need to evaluate what we value in a wide receiver when it comes to drafting or signing free agents?

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk

Megatron96 11-28-2022 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic (Post 16632536)
So, I am sure that I will get roasted for this, but Veach seems to have an issue scouting and drafting receivers.

I think we could have moved up for Christian Watson, which is who I really wanted, or we could have taken Pickens.

Both, as of week 12, are clearly better than Sky Moore.

And Cornell Powell, despite being called up from the practice squad, was a wasted pick, as any JAG could give us the same production.

And honestly, he grossly overpaid for MVS based on his level of production, and quite frankly his issues with catching easy passes.

Do we still have the number 1 offense in the NFL? Yes, but MVS, Sky Moore, and Cornell Powell have absolutely nothing to do with that ranking.

Are these just a few misses, or does Veach need to evaluate what we value in a wide receiver when it comes to drafting or signing free agents?

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk
Every GM has misses.

I don't think not drafting Christian Watson is a miss. Guy was invisible until two weeks ago. And he's still having drop issues; he's just being targeted more, because they're putting him in the slot or off the LoS more. Apparently he has issues with press as well.

Skyy has better hands than Watson, that's for sure. Is a better man-beater as well. haven't really watched Pickens until tonight, so we'll see.

TwistedChief 11-28-2022 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic (Post 16632536)
So, I am sure that I will get roasted for this, but Veach seems to have an issue scouting and drafting receivers.

I think we could have moved up for Christian Watson, which is who I really wanted, or we could have taken Pickens.

Both, as of week 12, are clearly better than Sky Moore.

And Cornell Powell, despite being called up from the practice squad, was a wasted pick, as any JAG could give us the same production.

And honestly, he grossly overpaid for MVS based on his level of production, and quite frankly his issues with catching easy passes.

Do we still have the number 1 offense in the NFL? Yes, but MVS, Sky Moore, and Cornell Powell have absolutely nothing to do with that ranking.

Are these just a few misses, or does Veach need to evaluate what we value in a wide receiver when it comes to drafting or signing free agents?

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk
Let’s just ignore what works and focus on what hasn’t worked.

Please name the GMs in the NFL who have a 100pct hit rate.

Veach traded the best WR in the NFL and yet the offense improved. Should he not get crazy credit for that? Veach signed JuJu. Veach signed Watson who has arguably been a more explosive weapon than Pringle or Robinson.

We could’ve traded up for Christian Watson? GB gave up 53 and 59. We didn’t have picks as valuable as that in the round. And three weeks ago Watson was thought of as a complete bust, so let’s not judge all rookie receivers until they’ve really gotten their opportunities.

MVS is grossly overpaid? Whom would you have signed that was available once Hill forced his way out via a trade? Who was the better option and what was his price point? And is he that overpaid given that it’s largely just a one-year deal with some guaranteed money that spills over into year 2?


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