Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 15432130)

Uh, just informationally, yes, you can.

Andy Reid has designed plays where Mahomes has done that to take advantage of zone coverages or rookie DBs before.

I didn't even know about it until early this year, when an analyst on YT (Krueger or Kohlmann or somebody) made note of it in one of his videos. During the game it looked just like Pat made a read, twitched his shoulders and then moved onto the next receiver.

But when slowed down and looking at it from the opposite angle, it's pretty clear that Patrick was never going to throw the ball at the first receiver. He just did that to get the LBs and the rookie DB to bite, so he could really throw the next guy open. Part of the reason you cold tell was that his first read (Conley I think) wasn't even looking when Pat did that shoulder twitch. He was still running with his back to Mahomes at that moment.

And the analyst mentioned that Andy wasn't even the first person to come up with the idea. Apparently Dan Marino did stuff like that. Whether it was actually scripted that way was unknown to the analyst, but he had a clip of Marino doing it way back when.

Just some contextual information for your all's conversation . . .

Originally Posted by daquix (Post 15432141)

You just learned about QB’s doing that this year? ��

That doesn’t make it not a read.

If, for example, Allen had Davis streaking wide open, he’s not going to just do the shoulder fake and then throw it to Diggs.

He’s going to throw it to the wide open Davis.

A read is simply the first receiver a QB looks to.

The first defensive “read” he makes in correlation to how a receiver is being defended.

A 2nd read is the second receiver a QB looks at.

A 3rd read is the third and so
forth.

Just because Pat planned to throw it to X receiver the whole time, doesn’t mean that Y receiver wasn’t the first read.

PS, you reallyyy love YT analysts it seems.

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic (Post 15432149)

In this case, both receivers are the 1 read or region read. But Allen is checking the safety. The shoulder roll looks interesting but it will have no effect on the safety. Allen doesn't even bother reading the full region as you can see his head move to cheat towards where he can watch for Diggs to cross. JC Jackson is in trail coverage but is watching the QB instead of fully mirroring the WR and this allows enough space for Allen to complete the pass.

Every Diggs TD in last night's game was intended for Diggs from the get go.

Nothing wrong with it. Hell, Denver should have Lock watch Jeudy most of the time.

It is something that KC will mess with if we play Buffalo again. It's not unique to Buffalo. This is the college game taking more and more space in the NFL.

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 15432152)

No, you misunderstand me.

I didn't know that Andy schemed such a play for Mahomes as early as 2018 until this year.

And you don't understand what I'm trying to say about the play design.

In that design, the first receiver is never actually a receiver. He's a prop. It's misdirection designed into the play to manipulate the defense into hesitating/driving/whatever to create a window for the real receiver (2nd read). Kind of the same thing as running a fake screen with a T and a TE with no RB to draw the eyes of the LBs, while the real receiver is running whatever on the other side.

Actually, Andy schemed up exactly such a play against BAL this year, I believe, where he ran a fake screen with the RB, that Patrick faked a throw to, and then flicked the ball to Kelce a few yards upfield and about 90 degrees North of the fake RB screen. It was obvious even during the in-game replay that the whole RB screen in the flat was a complete ruse. There was no read there; they were play-acting for the benefit of the defense.

Originally Posted by daquix (Post 15432158)

That’s just not true.

He is not a prop, and running that same exact play, that receiver has gotten the ball in other game circumstances.

It depends how the safety plays it.

Which is why Allen does the shoulder fake (to pull the safety).

I’m talking about the Bills play, I haven’t seen the Chiefs play you’re referring to.

Originally Posted by daquix (Post 15432153)

This is more correct than Megatron’s post, but still a little off.

The shoulder fake pulled the safety up top.

You can literally see it on the All-22. As soon as Allen does it, the safety moves.

If Davis was open, the ball was going there.

In other words, if the safety moved toward Diggs, the ball was going toward Davis. Instead the safety moved toward Davis, and then the ball went to Diggs.

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 15432166)

Right. And I'm not getting involved in your argument with whoever about Allen. I was just providing background info concerning your statement that "you can't have a first read that's not a real first read," or whatever you said exactly. My only point was, yes, you actually can.

After that, you and your buddies can continue at your discretion with your little conversation.

Originally Posted by CasselGotPeedOn (Post 15432109)

Jesus christ, do you check under your bed for knowmo before going to bed each night? You really should be charging him rent at this point...

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic (Post 15432170)

No. As soon as Allen looks at the safety he cheats his eyes towards Diggs. It's a high/low region read but Allen is not even fully reading the region.

Lots of Buffalo WRs are window dressing. Davis is in this case.

But again region reads can include 2 WRs, it is still one read, just one not really done in this case.

Originally Posted by daquix (Post 15432171)

I guess you can call it a “fake” first read.

But it’s still a first read.

A first read is the first receiver a QB looks at.

You might be confusing a first read with an intended receiver, or hot receiver (if blitz). Two completely different things.

An intended receiver is often not a first read. For reasons you mentioned earlier.

Originally Posted by daquix (Post 15432171)

I guess you can call it a “fake” first read.

But it’s still a first read.

A first read is the first receiver a QB looks at.

You might be confusing a first read with an intended receiver, or hot receiver (if blitz). Two completely different things.

An intended receiver is often not a first read. For reasons you mentioned earlier.

Originally Posted by daquix (Post 15432175)

I realize that through your tainted Allen-hating glasses, that this is how you perceive it.

You can’t even see Allen’s eyes in any of the camera angles.

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 15432189)

No, it's not. Not all the4 time, anyway.

Another Reid special is to trot two OLs out there on a fake screen and have Pat pretend to 'read' and pump fake at it.

Can't be a first read if there's no receiver to throw at, right? It's just window-dressing for the defense.

And as your HC is a former Andy Reid asst., I pretty much guarantee that he knows about it.

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic (Post 15432181)

Do you understand the region read concept? Because the first region is not considered "two reads".