Hard to say. I think you and I have a little bit of a disagreement on Kelly. I see him as a nice 4th starter or outstanding reliever. But as I've said before (maybe even here), I see a whole lot of Haren in the kid.

Like Haren, he went out there while his teammates were wetting the bed around him and just fired a power arsenal at a team that was in the process of putting the Cardinals away. In so doing, he was the most effective pitcher we had as the season slipped away.

If he refines a breaking pitch, he really could be a great one. If that happens then I'd have to guess that we 'lose' the trade. Then again, if he does and Calixte turns into a solid defensive SS with 15/15 skills and an .800 OPS, both sides benefit.

I think the Cards would be taking on substantially more risk and perhaps not even getting more upside. At the same time, their system is just loaded with power RHers and completely bereft of SS talent. If they have to 'lose' a trade to get that hole filled, I'm willing to do so if it only costs us another power righty.

LOL

maturity issues, yes. Control? Nope. He's got everything in his arsenal to be a #1.

With Myers gone? Unless they gave up their top 3 leftover or someone like Hosmer/Moustakas off their major league roster, they really don't.

The Cardinals and Royals fit well in the fringes (the have bit parts that match up well), but even before Myers left, they weren't a good fit for a major trade. The Cards are strong at the corners with Beltran, Holliday, Freese and Craig, then they have Carpenter, Adams and Taveras in the minors. That's a shitload of quality corner bats and that's where all the Royals legitimate trade value comes from.

His control completely abandoned him until about July. Nobody's really sure why, but it came back just as quickly as it left him.

While he recovered, the 'stumble' has to be seen as something of a red flag due to the fact that nobody's really figured out where it came from. Was he hiding an injury? Pouting? The club gave the standard 'mechanics' answer, it sure seemed severe for a simple mechanics issue.

As an aside, I have a homerun ball he gave up on the back fields at spring training during his first major league spring training. It's sitting in my 2006 WS beer stein in my office. If he turns into a badass, it would be kinda interesting to get it singed; you can see the smear over the trademark and everything. The guy that hit it freakin' blasted it.

My guess: he was thinking instead of pitching. He was given a "no shake off" rule about halfway through the season, and voila, his control came back. I have no worries about him, all young players go through growing pains.

Well, I specifically mentioned Myers for Miller so yes, I assume the guy was referring to Myers not being enough for Miller. (Since it was a rebuttal to my point)


If he was not responding to Myers and is looking only at the Royals now, then yes: they still have plenty of juice in the farm to get that done. The Royals still have one of the top farm systems. It would require Zimmer and probably Starling plus a bullpen piece at the current ML level but that's just a guess.

No. Cards farm system is stacked, they don't need your prospects. They wouldn't give up a #1 starter for bullpen help.

Oh, Shelby's a #1 starter now, is he? Looks like O's fans aren't the only ones who over-rate their prospects.

I don't think Calixte or Mondesi can be had for anything less than a big deal Kelly is a guy with some upside, but I can't see that being enough - even paired with a bench/util player (even a good one like SS).

Calixte will spend time at AA this year, and he's a good bet to pump up his value with big numbers offensively. KC is counting on that, from what I gather in a few places.

Not saying I agree with that, just that's where KC is at.

Mondesi is young and far away from the majors, but what he did at his age is pretty special. Putting up those numbers in rookie ball vs guys 2-3 years older than you is usually a great sign. Scouting reports are pretty glowing so far both in the field and regarding his bat speed/control.

He's been viewed as of having that potential since he's been drafted. He had a few tough months in AAA this season, then started turning the corner, earned a call up in September and performed quite well.

I know, he does have top-shelf potential. But it's just funny having someone say they won't trade us a "#1 starter" for our "prospects". Seems like they are all prospects until proven otherwise. Miller has some makeup issues I'd question before I put him as an everyday regular in the rotation, let alone an Adam Wainright type performer.

Funny.

I have a ball he used in Memphis to strike out Caleb Gindl of Nashville. Sitting next to the autographed Oscar Taveras ball I picked up in Frisco the night before.

We'll see how he turns out. I don't think the organization views him as untouchable as it was rumored that they would move him for the right deal, but I'd have to imagine it would have to be something that would be worth while.

I would think whoever loses out in the battle for the 5th starter spot-or the 4th and 5th spots if Garcia is not ready or has a setback- would either be used as trade bait or moved to the bullpen. Kelly has more upside then Lynn does at this point, with Rosenthal probably having more then Kelly and maybe at the same level as Shelby.

In short:
1a. Miller
1b. Martinez
3. Rosenthal
4. Kelly
5. Lynn