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-   -   Chiefs Whitlock- It’s OK to question Pioli and the Chiefs (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=203866)

Sweet Daddy Hate 03-09-2009 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief (Post 5567278)
But unless you have a USFL championship ring and have videotape of Nick "Assclown" Athan sleeping at a Chiefs press conference YOU haven't lived. LOL.

I think he's drunk.

Why you gotta' go associate something as beautiful as BBQ with Twitlock? He's clearly a Wimpy Burger by-product; 2 demerits for you. :p:D

FringeNC 03-09-2009 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRock (Post 5567045)
How was Pioli supposed to know that? Pioli should have a better read on Cassel than anybody. He drafted Cassel. He's been watching Cassel for the last few years when nobody outside of New England ever saw the guy throw a pass. And, like everyone else, he watched him up-close this past year when Cassel took over as the starter.

Compare what Pioli knows about Cassel to what he knows of Stafford or Sanchez. With Cassel, Pioli has years of evaluation, both in terms of college scouting and "is this guy going to make our roster?". With Stafford and Sanchez, he has one year of evaluaton at best. With Cassel, Pioli has 16 games of tape of Cassel against actual NFL defenses. With Stafford and Sanchez, he has zero.

If Cassel ends up a one-year wonder, it's a far more damning indictment of Pioli's ability to evaluate talent than if he'd drafted a QB at #3 and whiffed on the pick. And that will especially be true if one or both of the QBs available at #3 turn out to be good players, because Pioli would have written them off in favor of Cassel.

The only way Cassel is the "safer" pick is because he's proven he can do it in the pros, while rookies obviously haven't. But Cassel is still a risk because he's hardly a time-tested veteran (which is why this isn't a "Carl move" to the guy who keeps saying otherwise). It just so happens that he's "safer" than playing an actual rookie.

But in terms of Pioli's reputation, he stands to take a far greater hit if Cassel is a bust than if he'd drafted a QB #3 and that guy was a bust.


Nice post.

Jerm 03-09-2009 07:57 AM

Reading through this thread, had to comment on this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo Jojo (Post 5566614)
Because you may have missed it....

The Chiefs had a media conference call with Cassel; because he couldn't be there. However, during the call Matt said he was in the same building as the reporters and wasn't allowed to meet with them. The TV cameras ran down the hall a got footage of him leaving another room where he called from.

If Carl had done the same thing this board explodes. I just hope we don't give someone a free pass because he is the new guy.

Ummm maybe I missed something as well, but this was NEVER mentioned in the conference call...I listened to the entire thing while it happened and Cassel didn't state he was in the building nor that he couldn't talk to anyone.

The only thing mentioned was when someone asked Cassel if he was in Kansas City and he replied with a simple yes. The conference call was done after that.

SenselessChiefsFan 03-09-2009 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerm (Post 5567451)
Reading through this thread, had to comment on this...



Ummm maybe I missed something as well, but this was NEVER mentioned in the conference call...I listened to the entire thing while it happened and Cassel didn't state he was in the building nor that he couldn't talk to anyone.

The only thing mentioned was when someone asked Cassel if he was in Kansas City and he replied with a simple yes. The conference call was done after that.

It was 'assumed' by media that he very well 'could' have been in the building, but it was never stated as such. Just Mojo making it up as he goes along.

SenselessChiefsFan 03-09-2009 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo Jojo (Post 5567251)
What do you have to lose?


If you say you want the QB and someone wants him more you win in a trade.

If you rally don't want him, but he is the best person on the board...you win. Someone will over trade or you have a QBOTF. See the New York Giants.


FYI when Carl did this the board went nuts.

Just more ignorance from you. Amazing. If you SAY you want a guy, then teams trade above you to get him.

The difference with the Chargers/Giants is the Chargers had the FIRST pick you moron. No one could trade above them.

SenselessChiefsFan 03-09-2009 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo Jojo (Post 5565809)
There is a difference between question and criticize. I don't think most people want to criticize Pioli at this point, but they may to to question the way he goes about doing things. We question the way Sprint is run...we question elected officials all the time, so why can't fans, ticket holders, media question the way the Chiefs are being run?

To be honest they blew that whole Cassel phone call, and got busted doing it. If Carl had done the same thing people would demand he be fired.

No, they didn't blow the Cassel phone call. They underplayed the Cassel trade. CP would have paraded him around in tights and a cape as the savior of the franchise.

Pioli is smart enough NOT to put that pressure on him.

SenselessChiefsFan 03-09-2009 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo Jojo (Post 5567217)
First of all nobody should be "forced" to answer a question, but it should still be asked. You weren't clear do you want 5 or 10 questions?

1. Who is the DC?
2. As of today who is the starting QB? (Last week it was an open job.)
3. 3-4 or 4-3? Follow up why?
4. Who will be calling the play?
5. And for Clark...Who is the Chiefs President?

Is it beyond your comprehension that some of these questions have not been answered yet?

See, Herm would tell you everything that was going on. And, that was nice. We were 'in on it'. Only, things change, and with that, so do decisions. His honesty made him look like a hypocrite and a liar in the end.

Now, lets look at these 'questions' that you have.

#1) This probably depends on whether Crennel comes in. Right now, I am sure they have contingency plans. What do they gain by making them public?

#2) Again, right now, who knows? Thigpen may come in and beat out Cassel. Haley has NOT promised the position to Cassel (at least not publicly). Therefore, if the unexpected happens, and Thigpen outplays Cassel, then Haley is not breaking his word. I am sure that everyone in the Chiefs organization 'believes' it will be Cassel. But why on earth would you just hand the guy the job?

#3) More nonsense. First, I think the Chiefs coaches won't fully know what they have as far as players go until they actually get them on the field. I think they are going in the direction of the 3-4. And, I am sure they feel that certain players can do certain things. But, those players haven't actually done them on tape in a 3-4. So, there is still some question. Also, why not leave a little bit of question? I am sure that most NFL teams assume they are going to the 3-4. But, why not at least make them question it a little as they go through the draft?

#4) Again, isn't it possible at this time that they are not sure? Give me a freaking breaking. The Chiefs haven't made it onto the practice field. They haven't had a preseason game. Haley has no real experience with Gailey and I imagine he will give Gailey the opportunity to call the plays in the preseason and get a feel for him and then decide. Again, I don't think this has been decided just yet.

#5) I think it will be Denny Thum. But, why announce it now? He is a member of the old regime. Why on earth would you want to take away from the fans perception of a whole new organization?

We don't have a 'right' to know any of this stuff, especially at this point when some of these decisions haven't even been made.

htismaqe 03-09-2009 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 5566668)
Safeest in that he (Cassel) has already shown that he can play in the NFL, and showed improvement from his first game to his last.

And I highly doubt that he will be held to a higher standard with Cassel because of the very fact that, unlike Sanchez and Stafford, he has done it in the NFL.

If anything, he will be excused because he went the safe route.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. Have you read some of the posts on here about it?

EVERYBODY would give Pioli a pass if he drafted Sanchez or Stafford and they flamed out. It would be a cavalcade of "it happens" reposts.

However, a large contingent of the fans (myself included) feel like Cassel's played in the NFL, he's been somewhat successful already, and if he DOESN'T pan out, it's on Pioli.

Going with Cassel is FAR riskier to Pioli's reputation, specifically because it's viewed as the safer move.

philfree 03-09-2009 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 5567550)
I disagree with this wholeheartedly. Have you read some of the posts on here about it?

EVERYBODY would give Pioli a pass if he drafted Sanchez or Stafford and they flamed out. It would be a cavalcade of "it happens" reposts.

However, a large contingent of the fans (myself included) feel like Cassel's played in the NFL, he's been somewhat successful already, and if he DOESN'T pan out, it's on Pioli.
Going with Cassel is FAR riskier to Pioli's reputation, specifically because it's viewed as the safer move.


I don't really understand that logic. I don't see one way or the other making a difference. Any pick or pick up that doesn't pan out is gonna be on Pioli.


PhilFree:arrow:

htismaqe 03-09-2009 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spott (Post 5567114)
If I had to guess, it would probably be KK. I always thought he sounded like a rump ranger.

I highly doubt Keitz would be on here defending Whitlock's article, considering the first thing the article did was call out Keitz...

DeezNutz 03-09-2009 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree (Post 5567561)
I don't really understand that logic. I don't see one way or the other making a difference. Any pick or pick up that doesn't pan out is gonna be on Pioli.


PhilFree:arrow:

Of course. But Cassel will be more damning because Pioli supposedly knows every single thing about the guy.

If Scott has this much info. at his disposal and still ****s up, that doesn't speak well about his ability to evaluate talent.

Even with the best scouting, he'd know far less about Sanchez or Stafford. Plus there are all the other issues that go along with transitioning to the NFL that scouting/interviews cannot possibly account for.

htismaqe 03-09-2009 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree (Post 5567561)
I don't really understand that logic. I don't see one way or the other making a difference. Any pick or pick up that doesn't pan out is gonna be on Pioli.


PhilFree:arrow:

People are going to be CONSIDERABLY more understanding if a a draftee flames out because:

1) there is a high probability they will, because that's what alot of high draftees do

2) Pioli spent 4 years in New England with Cassel, knows him, knows what he can do

3) Cassel has started a full season in the NFL, knows how to read NFL defenses, and has been successful in the league, even if it's only for a short time

Now with those 3 things being said, I'm not gonna be calling for Cassel's head 4 games into the season for any reason.

But you can bet your ass that the vast majority of the fanbase is not going to be as forgiving if Cassel doesn't pan out.

Chiefnj2 03-09-2009 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 5567550)

EVERYBODY would give Pioli a pass if he drafted Sanchez or Stafford and they flamed out. It would be a cavalcade of "it happens" reposts.

.

No way. You blow a top 10 pick, especially at QB, and nobody forgives you.

htismaqe 03-09-2009 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo Jojo (Post 5567158)
Because when it was Carl it was worth talking about. Jason, Jack, KK and everyone on this board wanted answers. What has changed except Scott has his dick in you mouth?

I don't remember any of my buddies calling for Carl's head in March of 1989. You're better than this.

DeezNutz 03-09-2009 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 5567573)
No way. You blow a top 10 pick, especially at QB, and nobody forgives you.

Why "especially at QB"? It's a bit more expensive. A bit.

****ing up the Sims pick was just as terrible, if not more. There was talk about it, but it wasn't exactly Carl's albatross.


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