It was the Denver game I think.

I believe the Mahomes thread (one of them anyway) has that throw in there when talking about Mahomes bad footwork. I disagreed with Lane's conclusion that it was bad footwork that led to a bad throw.

But there are multiple angles of the throw. It actually ended up being a drop because even with the less than ideal placement, it should've been caught for a first down.

You are.

What we're saying is that Moore has many supporters here who have cited very strong hands, good short area skills and physicality as his most valued attributes. And that those were the attributes that have been cited in saying he was a good pick at 54.

I (and Detox I believe) are taking you on faith there and going ahead and GIVING him those attributes. And saying that he should be using them in the role presently occupied by JJSS.

It's not saying he's a bad pick because we think he should play the JJSS role, it's saying that if he's a good pick, he's PERFECT for the JJSS role.

Now you seem to think you want him out there WITH JJSS and that's where we keep getting back to the snap math. There just aren't as many out there as you think there are, especially when you start to look at the space on the field that Kelce, JJSS and Moore would all occupy. Suddenly you're looking at 3 underneath targets who do very little to threaten the deep/outer 1/3s. You're congesting your offense when you have all 3 of those guys on the field.

Because no, he's not running Justin Watson and his 20 yard ADOT routes. Nor is he running MVS's routes. Then you watch the end around and bubble screen passes and realize he ain't running the Hardman stuff, at least not as well as Hardman (if he stays) or Toney (if Hardman doesn't). And he's not going to displace Toney as Toney has simply been obviously better than him.

If you want to see Moore explode and you believe he can, putting him on the field WITH JJSS and Kelce isn't the answer. It's to put him on the field with Kelce and field stretchers like Hardman, Toney and MVS.

Andy Reid doesn't have a 'type' of WR.

He's succeeded with Terrell Owens, Jeremy Maclin, Desean Jackson, Tyreek Hill, JJSS and literally every single point and style in between.

There's no such thing as an 'Andy' wide receiver.

Fangio is a pattern match guy. He's not a "cover 2 guy".

We may get that DJ. If Juju does well this month he’s likely priced out. And I think Hardman will already be priced out.

I don’t see Wilie Gay taking a deal either unless it’s top of the market.

I foresee all of our open cap space going to Brown Jr, Jones and Sneed while we try to use the remaining sum on value guys like Justin Reid and Carlos Dunlap.

But Juju, Hardman and Gay are replaceable while Jones and Brown Jr are quite difficult to replace, so I get it

lol, what? What happened to "he's running full speed downfield; you can't expect him to stop and come back for the ball?" Come on now, bud.

Yeah, the angle I remember was from behind the LoS, kind of zoomed in a bit; you get a pretty good look at Mahomes and his stance. He's definitely pointed slightly to his left, and you can see pretty clearly when he turns his head back to the right and recognizes that Skyy is wide open; he never resets and just tries to flick it out there, even though there's no pressure on him.

But when your stance is pointed to the left and you try to throw to the right, your hips are kind of locked in place; you can't really follow through with the throw. You maybe could get some torque maybe if you lift off your right foot, but he doesn't do that. He's basically flat-footed there.

I think he just got in a hurry. But regardless it's a pretty poor throw, well behind Skyy. And just by resetting his feet that's a really easy throw for big yardage.

But Moore wasn't running downfield - he was running a crosser. Instead of leading him, he threw it into his body.

And yes, you and I reached the same conclusion on the 'why' of it, just for slightly different reasons. I think he mis-read the safety. Maybe he got impatient and didn't wait another half a heartbeat for the safety to commit and just guessed at what he was going to do. But in the end my conclusion was that it wasn't mechanics that led to the throw but rather just simple ol' bad aim.

EDIT: Here's the entire exchange with O.City (starts a little before this)

https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...5#post16706065

And where we pretty much completely align:

But ultimately it was still a ball Moore should've caught.

He's running right down the seam. It wasn't a crosser I don't believe. It was thrown behind him, probably should have been caught but would have been a tough catch.

Look at it this way.

Would you rather have JJSS at his price point, or send a 3rd to the Saints and pay about that for Ryan Ramczyk?

Yeah, not a true crosser - more of a skinny post.

But he'd started his shoulder turn before the ball was there so it wasn't like he needed to completely re-align his body. Frankly he did exactly what he needed to do to catch the ball - he just let it get too far into his body.

There are gonna be a ton of good players flooding the market this year, with some of these teams and their cap space.

The Chiefs currently sit with the 9th most cap space in 23. How are some of these teams this bad at managing this?

It's not really a crosser. I think Kurt Warner calls it a 'feature' route or something. Basically, Skyy is wide at the snap and runs a slight angle inside until he hits the numbers and starts a go route.

And I think you're right about what was going on his Pat's head; I think he read across from left to right, saw Skyy and hurried the throw because he misread the safety.

But that's a bad throw, I don't think there's any argument about that. It was literally low and away and behind the receiver, mostly because his hips are bladed to his left and he tries to make that throw flat-footed. Try that some time, it's really hard to get anything on the ball that way and accuracy is a problem. not saying Pat can't make that throw, but in this case he clearly missed.

And it was unnecessarily so; there wasn't any pressure in that moment, and Pat easily could've reset his feet in a fraction of a second and made a much more accurate throw. And if he had, Skyy was off to the races.

We may be 9th now, but what are we after we extend Sneed, Chris and Orlando? Gotta think that would take up a lot of money.

FA is just not worth it most of the time. I don’t think it will be this year with the lackluster options.

Get your value guys like Reid, Dunlap and MVS and look to the draft for your talent.

We haven't gotten into Pat's money thing, or Clark off the books either.

They'll have money to play with if they want. There will be alot of guys out there looking for a place to win, so that should help.

Is it a "draft for your talent" then not play them in their second year kinda thing ?