Ragland has no position. You have Watts coming back. Pick up some pass rushers in FA and the draft for Houston.

It's 4 spots and $50+ million dollars. Sign some freaking UDFA's. The only guy on that list that might be marginally hard to replace is Houston.

This draft is stacked full of defensive talent. Load up picks and use the freed up money to land a free agent or two.

When do you ever see a player be tagged and traded?

Now is not the time to trade or release any of our great trio of passrushers in Jones, Ford and Houston.

Next year you can get rid of them, not this year. This is the offseason where this team is going all in heading into next season.

Man, I just don’t see how you lose Ford and Houston then expect this defense to be good in 2019

Because there are other players that can rush the passer other than those two.

You know....draft picks and FAs.

The one thing I'm not doing is paying a combined $37 million dollars for two DEs. Especially for one that can't stay healthy and one that can't stop the run.

Other than Houston I don't think that's going to be a challenging task

What ****ing spots exactly?

Lucas can be your third safety and take over for Sorenson.
Ragland is garbage and doesn't have a spot.
Murray is garbage and doesn't have a spot.

You can find a cheaper and younger DE for the $21 million that Houston is going to get paid.

Ford doesn't even really have a spot. They HAVE to tag him.

I'd love to keep Houston but they need that cap space back too.

Gonna be hard to get it all done but while you find it hard to expect the defense to be good if they're both gone, I find it hard to expect the defense to improve much if they're both still here.

They're about to be over $36 million dollars. For the two. Literally.

Well just about all of the FA’s won’t hit the market, and it’s hard to expect a rookie edge rusher to come in and be that guy day 1.

I understand we probably should get rid of 1, but I just don’t see them getting rid of both when they want to make a run.

I'd rather just release sorenson, ragland and murray and have Houston plus $40M to work with.



One thing people don't seem to factor in is that Houston is absolutely on the books for $7M this year. So that 21M cap number means very little.

$14M. That's the number you should focus on. If Justin Houston were a street free agent, and it was going to cost you $14M to sign him for this year, would you do it?

I would. I think that's what his market value is. He's literally what everyone here is clamoring that Ford isn't: an all-round pass rusher who can also play the run, set an edge. If that's what Ford is going to cost - $14M - then why the hell would you ever cut Houston? Keep Houston, try to trade Ford, otherwise let him walk and get your comp pick.

They made a run with the 31st ranked defense this last season. Want someone to fill the DE spot? Go sign Brandon Graham for less than Houston is going to make. There are ALWAYS guys out there that you can sign.

What would be ****ing stupid is counting on Houston and Ford to not only make the switch to the 4-3 but to stay healthy as well......for $37 MILLION DOLLARS.

Totally fair take. I get it.

I think if they had to choose, they would like to keep Houston, plus this draft has some really good talent and depth on the DL.

Houston, Speaks, Tanoh and a high draft pick.

Again, I get it.

But that’s a lot of turnover on a team already switching schemes and while I totally understand why we should do it, I wouldn’t be surprised if the defense is a disappointment in 2019 again.

I also get letting both walk and putting faith in a new scheme and existing/incoming talent.

The really ****ing nice thing is that Mahomes makes ALLLLLL OF THIS manageable. Move up in the draft, move down, sign free agents, trade players...

It doesn't matter. The house is built. Now you get to decorate and insure it.

It was a disappointment this year, with all of those guys. Dee Ford is a big reason they were so bad against the run. So is Chris Jones.

Obviously you need to sign Jones. You can't sign Ford too and expect the defense to improve.

Exactly! :thumb:

Coaching will dictate this.

Seattle lost Sherman, Chancellor, Avril, Bennett and Thomas half a year and look how good they were?

It’s literally all about coaching.

I made this argument when Spags was hired, be careful people will be along to call you Crazy and Insane.

They called you crazy and insane because you threw a hissy fit about hiring Spags after openly campaigning for Rex freaking Ryan.

You say that like they were worth a shit this year. They were 31st in the league. There are about 3 guys on the defensive side of the ball that couldn't be replaced with someone better in a New York minute at probably close to the same price or cheaper.

Rex Ryan or any 3-4 coach, plenty of posts in this very thread and others stating moving to 4-3 would be mistake.

So...........

Just saying,

Letting Nelson and Ford both walk might net us a couple third round compensatory picks in 2020.

All that said, I just think its dumb to send Houston packing. Some of you guys see available cap space as something to get overly excited about. Its over-rated. Sure, the Chiefs should go get a significant free agent, hell I think I'd be trying to trade for a guy. But its not like cap space will solve all out problems in 2019.

You openly advocated for Rex Ryan. You added "or any other 3-4 coach" but don't pretend you weren't all in on Rex Ryan. After everything we've dealt with with Sutton, you wanted to bring in a guy who uses the same concepts and personnel groupings.

That's like divorcing your wife because she's the trailer park train caboose and then marrying her crazy-ass sister because the lack of cross-eyes makes her "hotter".

It's not just about the space. It's about how many games Houston tends to miss and the amount of sunk cost that's sitting on the sidelines when he does.

I get that. It's a fair criticism. I just think if you can come into 2019 with a healthy Houston and used the draft to address the secondary and LB position, we would feel better about things.

I'm not opposed to cutting his ass. Its the extension/restructure that gives me Tamba Hali nightmares.

Out of all the available coachs yeah Rex was the best, statistically he is better than Spags in every way.

But don't pretend that I also didn't say that I did not want to switch to 4-3. That was the main point of my argument. To which "Our personal fit 4-3" was shot at me.

Nothing has happened yet, but I'll stand by what I said. Our pass rush will be cut in half, and the rest of our stats will remain the same next year.....

The scheme change is going to be an adjustment for everybody, old or new. Id bet we keep Houston and Ford, but regardless of if we do theres almost no doubt we're going to load up on dbacks. So if we lose them, it will balance out by adding talent somewhere else.

But realistically... I think this defense will look pretty rough early on. It's a fairly complicated scheme that requires a lot of defensive chemistry. But we know we can win without a defense. And I don't think it'll take even close to a full season to adjust.

There's absolutely nothing about Rex Ryan that makes him a good fit for the Chiefs, statistics or not, 3-4 or not. Rex Ryan's defense over-relies on top-tier talent, just like Sutton's. Furthermore, Rex Ryan is not a personality I'd ever want to see on this team. He's a freaking sleeze, just like his dad.

As for the original point - it still stands.

People called you crazy and insane because you were all over Rex Ryan like a 14-year old Jacob Sartorius fangirl. Not because you wanted to keep the 3-4.

I’d keep Houston for sure if Ford is leaving. Cap space isn’t near the issue that it is for KC unless Ford is tagged, so you may as well keep Houston. He can be a valuable leader to what is presumably going to be an influx of young defensive talent.

Well, she would be hotter. No point in arguing that, really.

FAX

Could we not? Neither Rex or Spags are all that special.

ROFL

Who the **** is Jacob Sartorius?

Rolf Jacob Sartorius is an American singer and internet personality, who rose to fame via social media from posting lip-syncing videos on musical.ly and TikTok.


LMAOROFLLMAOROFLLMAO

ROFL

I could tell you but then you'd want to kill yourself.

Dude, you're not supposed to post NSFW without spoiler tags! ROFL

I think Houston can atleast be competent in the 43 at DE. I think Ford is more boom or bust there.

If they aren’t confident that he can be a legitimate 3 down player in that defense, there’s no way they can afford to pay Ford the projected $16.3M tag. Just can’t do it.

That’s enough money in 2019 space to sign 2 legit starters.

Yep, I agree.

Well, it depends.

The cap exploding and the amount of money some of these teams have are just gonna make it really damn hard for good teams that spend to sign them. We're gonna start seeing a lot of these guys sign with these shit teams that have piles of money.

So with that, it's gonna be hard to find a pass rusher on the market that you don't have to pay a shit load too.

If you keep Houston at his cap hit of $21 million and Ford at his franchise tag cost of $16 million......that means we'd have the #1 and #4 cap hits for 4-3 DEs next year.

One of them HAS to go.

if I’m guessing, Veach would like to see the other big pass rushers (Lawrence, Clowney) get tagged. Get them off the market, and Ford will have legitimate trade interest. A bidding war could ensue between those teams that have ample cap room that you speak of.

Chiefs are in a solid spot if they want to go that route.

Yep. Someone with a bunch of cap space will roll the dice on Ford.

Graham + Jaylon Ferguson looks like a pretty good RDE situation, and will be considerably cheaper and with a future than Ford's $16 tag.

I’d bet that Cleveland GM would like to have him across from Garrett... he loves to spend too.

There will be a ton of teams interested. Chiefs should sell high I’d say. They aren’t keeping him long term anyways.

This isn’t like 2014 Houston, Von Miller, or Mack. Those guys you extend long term. They’re a force at all times.

But with Ford, they could potentially sell high on a guy that isn’t going to be worth the long term deal to begin with.

Not only all of that, but this is happening at a time after teams have seen what an impact Mack made with the Bears. Not Ford is not Mack, who is, but teams are going to be looking to make big moves. I think the Packers, Browns, and other teams would love to make a deal and get a guy like Ford before the start of free agency. That would be allowed correct? Or would we need to wait?

With a solid offseason, I'll be absolutely shocked if this defense isn't better than the one we had in 2017 when we were 15th in defensive ppg.

If Joel Corry’s estimations are correct, and I assume they probably are since he’s a cap guy, we are sitting at around $26.5M in cap room before any moves are made. If they tag Ford, that’s instantly reduced to around $10.2M before even factoring in the draft class and extra space they’d like to have headed into the season.

Barring some pay cuts/restructures, a Ford tag isn’t even feasible.

Well bye, Dee

Instead of lining up offsides imagine he gets a sack-fumble on that play to win the game.

Rather than calling for his release, everyone on here would be clamoring to sign him long term.

What a difference one play can make.

It's basically Ford or Houston. Cutting Houston would free up essentially the exact number of a Ford franchise tag

You either get better or worse. Keeping the same guys makes us worse in my book. Cut the fat contracts and spend the money elsewhere. Ford too expensive. Houston too expensive and Berry to expensive. Cut them as you can and save what you can for other players.

Yep... it is.

I think you keep Houston. Better all around player, and they can get something back for Ford potentially.

Ford has gotta go. One trick pony. Not and all around player for what he will cost. He lost the damn game. Mental idiot.

Even with the decent year he had, there were always questions surrounding his long term viability... now with the move to a 43, it's a no brained that his time here is over

He has one strong suit and that's it, we need complete football players with great instincts, and he clearly is not that guy

I don't know that's necessarily the case if we end up playing more of an over front. He doesn't have to be great against the run in that alignment, I don't think.

The only two positives this season on the defense were (1) the pass rush and (2) playing time for Ward, Smith and Lucas. That's it.

Now people want to get rid of Ford and possibly get rid of Houston if he won't restructure. Good luck generating a pass rush next year.

We need more than just a pass rush. They were useless againt Brady. Save the money, turn loos Speaks and Kpass. Sign a damn LB and a DB. Cut Dan's worthless ass and get a better Safety. Berry to.

Welcome to hell

Spagnuolo's history suggests that we're going to bring in a lot of talent in the secondary. A good secondary can often help your pass rush. I'm open to keeping them though.

Pass rush didn't matter at all vs NE.

I'd rather have 2 legit starters at LB and secondary than Dee Ford.

$37.5M in cap space for Houston and Ford will limit the rest of the roster severely. They can’t let that happen.

They’ll still play with enough leads and have enough talent to rush the passer well without Ford IMO.

I’ve got my eyes on Shane Ray as a potential cheap and effective replacement.

Question,

If our secondary is so bad why did we get so many sacks? Don’t you need time to get to QB?

Please stop using NE as a example of our rush being bad, that is not what it was. It’s a example of a coach being reeruned....

If Spagnuolo envisions a role for him that fits what it will cost to keep him, fine

But my money says hard choices will be made as this conversion takes place... and Ford will be a casualty, just too many questions regarding where he fits in vs his cost

My thoughts on Ford have nothing at all to do with the AFCCG. The guy is an injury waiting to happen. I have been on the record all season that they should tag him and take what they can if they can get it.

NOTHING has changed at all.

ROFL

Yeah, being a few inches away from going to the Super Bowl is "hell". This place never disappoints.

You really think it's going to be just as bad? We have a better coordinator at the helm.

I'd be shocked if we weren't active in FA, perhaps adding 1 or 2 impact FA. We may lose Ford, but we'll be better behind the defensive LOS.

I'd be shocked if we weren't top 16 in ppg and top 20 in ypg

That would have been enough to win the sb this year.

He’s been bitching since Ryan didn’t get hired.

I know, that's why I said it.

https://twitter.com/fo_scottkacsmar/...426433025?s=21

So this is interesting. Think it goes to show building a high priced defense just isn’t worth it anymore. You’ve gotta draft and have good young players on d

It's always been that way really. Get a QB, draft well around him, win.

I hoping that Hitchens will revert to form under Spags and the 4-3. We need a good break on the LB front, and that would be a welcome one.

Especially if that is the root of your team. That's why having a Mahomes is such a luxury; you don't have to have Pro Bowlers at every position or elite depth either. All you have to do is be solid and disciplined, and mine/create your superstars where they come.

So many good options right now, so many possibilities. This was definitely the right move for the Chiefs and I'm VERY stoked about where we are headed defensively. I absolutely LOATHED the last 9 years of Chiefs defense, and the 3-4 that Scooter Peeholi foisted upon us. We're finally sweeping that shit out of the building once and for all.

No I’ve been bitching about switching to a 4-3 and explained multiple times why it was a bad idea.

Yes I wanted Rex Ryan, and I also preferred to stay 3-4 above all else.

So instead of a defensive rebuild we could have just had a defensive adjustment with some new pieces.

And you’d have no money to do it with. You’d still need 2 safeties, 2 CBs, an ILB and at least a starting 3-4 end. Now go do all of that with roughly $10-$12 million in cap space.

I’d have been ok with taking that chance. At least I’d know for sure we had a good to great pass rush.

Now to me it’s a question mark.

God berry’s contract is a ****ing disastrous

running it back in a 3-4 with Ford, Houston,Jones and then a bunch of scrubs around them that are complete liabilities all over the field is literally not an option. That's how everyone gets fired. Just insanity to do it again.

Houston is going to have to restructure. You're not bringing him back on that cap number. No chance. He was a ghost in a lot of games and he's an injury liability to the 100th power.

The average NFL team runs base defense about 35% of the time. Switching to a 4-3 is nearly inconsequential. You act like they suddenly have to completely rebuild the defense because of the scheme change - this defense needed that anyway. You're just flat out wrong about the change in base defense.

Sorry dude. You picked a bad argument and then compounded it by throwing a childish tantrum about things when they didn't go the way you wanted. On this board, that's a good way to get a lot of attention.