I gained 5 lbs reading that thread. I thought I ate like shit....

Weekly check-in...lost 3 pounds, bringing me down to 350 on the button. I've been killing it with exercise lately, with an hour on the stationary and usually 10-11 miles on the bike with 300 foot elevation gain.

My goal was to get to 350 by summer vacation, so I'm 6 weeks ahead of schedule.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/683/trolljoker.gif

Will that be 3 shakes a day? If so, for how long?

This thread is great. Lots of great info. I'm still going to eat my almost completely vegan diet. Mainly because I tend to take what my Dr., who's on a national board for cardio research, and my business partners cardiologist, say, over what some guys on a message board say. Having said that, I don't disagree with the animal protein thing completely either. I'm the huntingest MFer you've ever met, and I'll eat some venison or fish once or twice a week. I don't post studies and research to back up my dietary preferences because, as Silock did with my "the china study" claims, pretty much all research can be shot full of holes. I've got my doctorate. I know studies. There hasn't ever been the perfect study, and if you google one study, you can google another that contradicts it. That how it is.

What I do rather, is to base how I eat on simple small facts of nutritional research that aren't in question. Things like refined carbs being inflammatory in their very nature. Things like certain fats, vitamins, minerals, and other micronutrients, being more readily absorbed when in combination with each other. In other words, whole foods and the whole foods movement. And yes, it does work for me. I dropped 13 lbs two years ago with no other changes aside from how I ate, and I thought I ate pretty healthy before that. I just started hitting the gym again two weeks ago and have started incorporating weights back into my routine for the first time in years. All I did for the past 8 years or so was lots of pushups, crunches, and lunges.
Basically, I believe that if you have a diet that works for you, and you follow it because it works for you, then you are better off that you would be if you fell in and out of diets because they simply weren't for you long term.

Those of you who are here lifting for size, how often do you go to the gym? Do you do cardio specific workouts that don't involve weights? Just curious.

Total agreement. Whole foods all the way. If it comes in a box it can stay at the store.

I'm curious what a whole food vegan meal plan looks like though? I've hung out with some vegetarians and vegans and their definition of whole food and my definition differ greatly. Can you give me some examples of what a dinner would look like on your plan?

That's a bit disingenuous. Some studies just aren't constructed very well or controlled, like the China study. Therefore, some studies are just more valid than others. If you can find multiple well-constructed studies that contradict each other, it's very likely that the outcomes are specific to the individual and not necessarily generally applicable. Some studies are just better than others. And if a study is repeatable, it's more valid than one which is not. Creatine studies are almost always replicable, and that's why we know it works so well.

I guarantee it was just a matter of taking in less calories than you were before.

3 days a week. Cardio on off days.

I lift five days a week and isolate each day. Only cardio I do is when I referee soccer on weekends.

An example of dinner for me would be one of the following, which I probably eat two to three times per week.
meal 1:
Grilled zucchini, yellow squash, onion, brussel sprouts, grape tomatoes, broccoli, and some asparagus pieces. I make a "dressing" of olive oil (very little), lemon juice, fresh grated garlic, salt and pepper, and chopped basil. I then either make wild rice, or quinoa, place the grilled veggies over that, and then pour on a little "dressing". It's fantastic. I might sub different veggies in there, like leeks, red peppers, green peppers, cauliflower, etc.

Meal 2: It's my fridge cleaning meal. I'll get a large pot and throw in a little bit of olive oil. Then I chop up every last piece of veggies in the fridge. I'm talking everythink you can imagine veggie wise, all fresh though. Then I'll throw in some beans. My favorite are black or navy. Then I'll add a bit of white vinegar, some yellow mustard, chili powder, and fresh grated garlic, and then okra as a thickening agent. I'll let it simmer for 30 minutes or so. My wife calls it Rattatouille, but I don't think it's more than a big pot of chili type meal. Regardless, it's also fantastic.

Then, a couple times a week, I'll grill some salmon and just have some of the leftovers from the above meals, or similar meals to have as sides.

Works for me.

No argument here. That study was poorly designed. Even the critical analysis you provided a link to did offer up that a diet higher in fruits and veggies, and lower in red mean is recommended though. Again, the china diet may be poorly designed, but the facts about the micronutrition it is based on are real.

While some of those foods have protein, you'll need a lot of it to really meet protein requirements for putting on some size.

Fruits and veggies are always recommended! But that doesn't always mean cutting out red meat entirely. The problem is usually *over* consumption, not simply "consumption."

Your going to get a wide variety of answers to this, as there are many ways to get there. Personally, I would say anywhere between 3-6 days per week. It will boil down to a combination of your nutrition, sleep, intensity level and amount of volume you are doing. I currently do two lower body days and two upper body days, with saturday as 'vanity' day (abs/calves/arms). Cardio for me is prowler/sled pushes & sprints after lower body sessions.

If your trying to get 'big', I'd start by eliminating or cutting cardio down to 1 or 2 low intensity walks per week. If you getting fat, double check your diet before going nuts on cardio.

Not wanting to get big at all. Been there 20 years ago. Just curious as to how guys do it these days. I am really enjoying lifting again though. I'm doing lots of reps with medium weight. By lots, I mean 15-20. Generally two to three sets, depending on the muscles I'm working out. I do throw in a heavier set of each muscle group per workout though. It's only been two weeks, and 7 workouts, but it's amazing how fast the body, even a middle aged one, starts to adapt and reshape.

Actually I shouldn't even speak on this, as I've never been that big/yoked so I don't know how to really get there. Success leaves clues, so I tend to ask the stronger dudes how to get strong, and the bigger dudes how to get big :thumb:

All I do know, is that Prilepin's chart does indeed work for getting strong.