I hate baseball.

Flying high in April/shot down in May.

That was nice


I like Bader

I left the game in the middle of the 8th after Norris gave up the HR.

I feel bad.

its really good to see the Carp gif again. :clap:

I agree that the ball game appeared to be over. That said, This team seems to come from behind to win more than recent teams.

They need to go down to the minors and bring up some help for the bullpen. We have talent there that can help the bullpen.

Hicks is pitching his 2nd inning for the 3rd time in 6 days. He pitched 2 innings with a 5 run lead. That’s on Matheny.

But, Matheny aside, the bullpen does need help. Gregerson, Leon and Holland were supposed to be the end of the game closers. They are all out. Get some ****ing help and quit burning the arms of Hicks and Norris.

that may be true. However, Having Martinez go down at the same time with same exact injury is a helluva concindence. Maybe all the pitchers need to build up those muscles?

Haha crazy finish

Even the 27 Yankees would have thought that was a great comeback.

It stands out more because this team almost always plays a brand of "meh" baseball even when they win.

Both our teams need new bullpens.

Especially when ya give up a walk off to Wong.

FU CARDINALS!

My Pirates are snakebit. LOL

seems to me that your team is over performing the expectations that most people had for this years Pirates team.

You can’t really complain about loses when you only score 1 run through 8 innings. I know this because we are usually on the other side of these losses.

Even bad hitters can park 81 mph shit over the middle of the plate.

We are cursed, man.

getting the wild card then having to face some of the best pitchers in this generation at the top of their games has to have sucked.

I remember in 2011 we had to go to ATL and face this young phenom that had been killing teams all season. We stood no chance. Then we won and had to go to Philly and face the best playoff starting rotation ever according to the media. Went down to a winner take all pitchers duel between two long time friends. We won that one too.

We had no business winning any of those games or series. We sucked most of the year. Stumbled into the playoffs. Barely made it in. No one who posts in this thread thought we had a chance to win anything. We were just going to get embrassed.

Your year will come sometime. Pitt fans deserve one.

Cursed? I'm a Brewer Fan. I wish that I could even know what a curse is. I don't even know what voodoo plagues the Brew Crew

Regarding Atlanta, are you talking about the 2012 Wild Card game? That was when the Cardinals faced Kris Medlen, who was a soft-tossing piece of shit that rode good luck to a superficially nice second half, but he was not a young phenom.

Yeah.

The Cardinals faced the Astros the last series of the season while Philly played at Atlanta.

Infield fly wasn't until 2012.

yes, 2012. l went to the game in ATL. He was defintly billed as a phenom and we had no chance.

He had an era under 2 and Atlanta had won like 12 straight games when he took the mound.

A lot of Cardinal fans in our section were scared after that infield fly rule call. We were about 15 rows up from the field where the catch happened. The ATL fans were throwing stuff on the field. Not trying to hit us but those fans in the upper deck couldnt make the field so it landed on us. We all got coke, beer etc thrown on us. A full bottle of water with the cap on went right in-between my and the wife's head as we stood together. Really lucky it didn't hit us, it was traveling really fast.


I think I could go into the 2012 Cards thread and find no one thinking we had a chance in that game. We were over matched. And we were. The playoffs are always a crapshoot.

You belong in the American League that is why you cursed. ROFL

The residue of the Pilots has never washed off.

Those two games burned for other reasons. In 2014, Teke, our old closer and beloved post game analyst, returns from a heart attack to throw out the first pitch. We get destroyed against the Giants.

In 2015, we lose to the damn Cubs and their annoying fan base of narcissists who act like lovable losers but are entitled jerks and the media who jumped their bandwagon.

I could have handled the Padres or Mets.

2013 had additional pain for me because Matt Adams hit the big home run. The guy grew up 25 minutes from me in a town my ancestor co-founded. He even went to college near Pittsburgh but NH didn't draft him. :cuss:

That Phillies-Cardinals series stunk for me to watch. I wanted both teams to lose. Haha

I remember that. I was on the train on the way home and my Braves fan wife called and starting cussing me on my phone over it. LMAO

**** the Braves. They had a bullshit strike zone throughout nearly the entire 90s

**** both your shit teams. I can't stand either one. The only one that might be worse is the Giants.

Thank you

Impressive game so far by Wacha... no hitter or not.

quit trying to work the count and just swing at anything, Munoz.

God damn it

you seem nice.

:D

I had an enormous headache yesterday so I slept through the afternoon. I guess I didn't miss anything.

Hamas, are you sure that Wacha isn't worth anything to other teams? Teams at the trade deadline trade for a starter all the time and overpay. Happens every year. With Wacha they still have another year of control.


We never sell high. This trade deadline will be as high as Wacha's value is ever going to be. I just don't see how we cant get something worthy out of him. Straighten me out.

Who takes his spot in the rotation now?

He has value, it all depends on other team needs. I wouldn't call him untouchable, but he isn't a Mike Leake situation. I would hate losing him much worse than Lance Lynn. Wacha has upside, even with his injury history. Lynn was an innings eater with primarily winning teams.

I was thinking yesterday how few pitchers really have successful longevity. I'm not sure it is ever worth giving a big multi-year deal to any pitcher anymore. You might be better off paying early and taking the risk then (ala Martinez) if you can get it done.

I'm going off selling high and we only need a replacement for a 5th starter for 2 months. I think Reyes is in the rotation next year.


2 month fill-in for 2018 prospects:
Hudson, Gomer and Gant (they had not put Waino in there ever again). How many starts will be needed for a 5th starter? 6? 7 at the most.

In the playoffs, if we get there, these are all the starters you need. Sucks without Reyes in there but it is what it is.

Martinez
Mikolas
Weaver
Flaherty

We need help on offense more than Weaver/Flaherty as a 5th starter.

I agree on the upside but he has always had shoulder issues. Most of the time, shows up in the 2nd half.

It's just a gamble we don't have to take. We have 5th starter replacements for 2 months. It's a far bigger gamble to stay put with this offense. Trusting that Fowler/Wong will return to norms. Dejong/Molina will return to their norms quickly are way way bigger gambles.

I guess it's possible, but let's remember a few things:

1) Reyes can't stay healthy
2) Mikolas (this version) and Flaherty both have very little history in MLB at this point
3) Weaver isn't exactly setting the world on fire
4) Mozeliak has never sold

Honestly I’m not sure what’s out there that’s much of an upgrade for us offensively anyway. Other than the pipe dream of Machado, who can we bring in that’s markedly better than someone we already have on the roster?

Very good points and can’t count on all of these SPs to come through. As long as the team is even a bit in the mix for a wild card spot I can’t see Mozeliak selling anything.

I agree with Hamas and your point. I just don't see Mo doing a deal like that unless we are completely out of it by the trade deadline. Thats not going to happen so.... we are stuck here with what we have.

Angelo is a dumbass. Manny is going to cost Reyes/Weaver/Bader or more for a 2 month rental. Maybe he finds someone to do that type of deal but I doubt it. He may find someone that can sign him long-term that Manny would want play in that city and then gets a stupid deal. Anyone that would make that deal can just buy more prospects or replacements anyway.

You can never have enough pitching is baseball dogma, and for good reason. But, as we are finding out, if you cant score runs, doesn't matter how good your pitching is, your an average team.

Maybe the usual deal to add a bat that doesn’t seem like it would help or some broken former closer.

John Mozeliak is like every middle aged person you'll meet when it comes to exercise.

If you're looking for a reason not to do it, you'll find one. If I don't want to go to the gym, I can always find a reason not to go to the gym. But if I really wanted to go, I'd figure a way around those reasons 9 times out of 10.

Regardless of what's happening, irrespective of what's in front of him, John Mozeliak will always look at that as a reason NOT to act. For ****s sake, he couldn't see a way clear to move Lynn last year. Or Rosenthal before he got hurt when the rumors were that there were 5 teams hot on him.

If the team's struggling, he'll say he doesn't want to sell low. If the team's been struggling and is now playing well, if only for a week, he'll say he wants to see it play out. If the team's playing well, he'll see it as a reason not to take a risk.

Moe is just naturally risk averse. It's been a benefit for him on several occasions so I'm not using it as a pure value judgment here. But it is what he is - if he can find a reason not to take a chance, then he's not going to take one.

I want folks to take a look at the best teams in the AL and the potential of some of the best teams in the NL (both for now, as is the case with the Nats, D-Backs, Dodgers and Cubs or the future with the Braves and Phillies) and try to tell me that doing very little is a viable option for this team to win a championship in the next 5 years.

It just isn't. Dicking around in the margins makes this a team that's still 82-88 wins and an early exit in October. The rosters for the best teams in this league are clearly a step beyond ours. So if we want to swim in those waters, risks have to be taken. But DeWitt doesn't really want to run with those dogs - he just wants to get the WC berth, fill the stands and hope he gets lucky. It's a hell of a lot easier than actually pursuing top-shelf talent even if it means torching $50 million on replacement level chaff like Fowler, Cecil, Leake, Gregerson and Holland.

I have to agree with this take.

Moving Wacha now is a risk but as for the reasons DJ just laid out, is it really a risk? We know how this ****ing around at the edges has worked out.

Maybe we get "hot" like we did in 2006/2011, but that doesn't seem like a sound winning strategy.

And I know everyone's hot on Wacha now, and perhaps with good reason.

But if you look at his advanced command numbers (which are admittedly in their infancy) as well as his average pitch quality figures, he's pitching well over his head right now.

He's lost a little more velocity and he's not exactly developed a hammer curve; it's still largely a get-ahead or setup pitch. The cutter has become a solid pitch for him so that's perhaps a new 'true talent' for him. And his changeup has become a genuine out pitch for him. He's a better pitcher than he's been in the past but he's still really just a 1.5 pitch guy who's stuff isn't electric. He's a lot closer to the fine line between success and failure that his present ERA stats suggest he is, IMO.

But let's say this is the new normal for him - you really excited about paying a guy with that crazy shoulder issue of his $18+ million/season for 4-5 seasons? If that stress reaction thing in his shoulder pops up again (and the medical history of it is so short that there's no way to say it will or will not), it's less a "he'll be less effective" thing as it is a "he simply won't be able to pitch in the big leagues" thing.

There are too many red flags around Wacha with too many potentially plus arms already in the system for me to get behind spending a significant percentage of our payroll on him.

Wacha's exactly the kind of guy you should look to deal, IMO. The return for a guy who's pitching well right now with another year of control would be pretty strong. And I know nobody likes the idea of treating your 5th starter as 'just' a 5th starter, but honestly - it's just a 5th starter. Even if Reyes can't get back on the bump this year, you have Gomber and Gant that can absolutely do credible work in that role. Gomber is big league ready but just keeps getting overlooked. He'd be a gem in a lot of system, IMO. That hook of his is a legit major league out pitch and the fastball/changeup combination is't elite but it's good enough to work with that curveball for a legit 3-pitch mix that can give you 175+ quality innings. Make that the 5th arm in a rotation fronted by Martinez, Flaherty, Weaver and Mikolas and you're still in better shape than most teams.

But there's an obvious reason not to - as Hamas pointed out, there are questions marks in the rotation (there are question marks in EVERY rotation). So because there's a reason not to do it, Mozeliak won't, regardless of the reasons that exist to suggest you SHOULD do it.

DJ brings up a good point with the big clubs right now and how the Cards can't compete with them.

The problem I see with it though, is that they can't develop hitters like those clubs can. So we have an impasse.

You can acquire a 25 yr old HoF talent and pay the man what he's worth to help close that gap.

Or you can acknowledge that you can't hang with some teams that are not only producing hitters, but have genuine front of the rotation arms. Just throwing more high-end arms into the damn bullpen doesn't help the Cardinals move up a tier. It just makes them slightly better situated in the squishy middle (y'know, like adding Kareem Hunt to an offense helmed by Alex Smith).

It just frustrates the shit out of me when we keep 'dry powder' and don't get guys like Juan Soto signed in 2015, then 'blow it up' in the international period in 2016 but STILL don't get any high ceiling bats brought on. The year they go 'all out' they bring back Jonathan Machado as their prime return? And then come up short on Luis Robert.

The Cardinals have taken a penny-wise, pound foolish approach to developing bats in-house. They've focused too many times on sign-ability in the draft and pissed away their big foray into the international market by once again engaging in half-measures. But at least they have Jose Adolis Garcia regressing in AAA at 25 yrs old, so that's nice.

This is a bit of a question of arbitrage. If you know you can't develop hitters (and lord, I hope they know this) but have a seemingly limitless supply of pitchers, maybe you ought go ahead and move some of those pitchers for the hitters you lack. Yes, playing to your strengths is a wortwhile endeavor but eventually you reach the point of diminishing returns and I think we're nearing that point. It's time to reallocate some resources to their areas of greatest need.

Weird how everyone is hitting .400 in Memphis and can’t hit for dick in the majors. Oh wait, no it’s not, Mabry just sucks.

Mabry probably sucks, yes.

But O'Neill was always going to have issues at the big league level because he has holes all over his swing and Kelly showed serious regression even in AAA this year. Last year I said there was a good chance that Kelly's ceiling was maybe Tucker Barnhart and frankly his ABs this year have suggested that his ceiling may be more like Francisco Pena as a catch and throw backup. He looks baaaaaad and his exposure to Mabry hasn't been enough to create that. Meanwhile Bader's turned himself into a pretty damn versatile offensive weapon and Paul DeJong has done more than I expected.

Some of the offense goes at Mabry's feet, to be sure, but some of it's just a talent issue. And while there are guys like Adams who has hit every place he's been where Mabry wasn't responsible for him, both majors and minors, Grichuk and Diaz have been pretty much shit outside of STL as well. Every bad hitter on his watch hasn't been his fault and he isn't completely without players that have succeeded under him. Hell, Heyward hit better under Mabry than he's hit in Chicago by a ton.

That said, I do think firing Mabry should happen - because at this level I need a reason to keep you rather than a reason to fire you and Mabry's gone 5+ years without giving me good enough reasons to keep him. But I think you're probably just going to get a temporary spike before another lull. You can't turn chicken shit into chicken salad and increasingly I think that's what Mabry is working with.

As advanced as the Cardinals have been in finding under the radar arms, they've been equally behind at finding hitters and it's been a system-wide issue. If the dude somehow manages to **** up Knizner, that's about all I'd need to see. Kizner's just a natural hitter; a lot like Allen Craig. He has the best chance to be a 4+ win player of any of the offensive guys in the system, IMO. You've gotta go all the way down to Palm Beach and look at guys like Dylan Carlson and Evan Mendoza before you see another shot at a real difference maker, IMO. Arozarena and Mercado could maybe become 3+ win players but they're gonna do that in a much different way; similar to Heyward in that they'll derive half or more of their value from defense and baserunning.

In terms of pure hitters, the system just hasn't given Mabry much to work with. And when you have guys like Wong looking like a light bulb went on in 2017 then he shows up in 2018 and can't make solid contact...I have a hard time saying that Mabry ruined him when it was under Mabry that his approach made such great strides last year.

The coaching may well be lacking but the talent is as well.

Hey, I'm all about turning some of the pitching into Manny.

But I'm not the Gm, thankfully, and it's not likely IMO.

Man, I thought Allen Craig was gonna be Paul Goldschmidt before he was Paul Goldschmidt. That injury sucked. And the obvious Taveras thing just ****ed up a lot of shit.

But they're gonna have to do something to compete with the higher ups in the future.

Which slapdick reliever do you think they'll trade for this year? It's a yearly theme.

Poor Craig - dude's legs just never came back and you can't hit without a lower half.

Taveras would've been a hell of a Mabry measuring stick. He came to the bigs and showed a much longer swing than I expected and was a lot more susceptible to hard stuff than I had been led to believe. That long, loopy swing had a lot of casting in it and combined being slow with not generating a lot of authority.

But when you looked at his minor league numbers, you know there's a hitter there somewhere with the right adjustments. He knew how to approach at-bats and it wouldn't have taken a complete overhaul, just some changes in his how his hands went to the dish, IMO.

If Mabry could've have gotten him on the right track, it would've been a feather in his cap. Had he continued to struggle...well shit, Mabry's probably gone by now in an attempt to save the golden prospect.

Sadly, we'll never know. I don't believe he was the no-questions asked superstar that many others did, but I think there was a lot of good clay to work with there and we'd have had a pretty good test of Mabry's ability.

AJ Ramos and Jake Diekman seem right up Moe's alley.

He could trade Nick Plummer (gotta get a former 1st rounder in there somehow) and Scott Hurst for Diekman and Jesse Chavez then peddle Jake Woodford for AJ Ramos.

2 more righties and a lefty, all three exceptionally mediocre but they've 'done it before' so Matheny will cream his jeans over them.

Actually, the Taveras stuff here is probably true. He always hit, but I dunno.

And yeah, Craig ordeal sucked. Is he still int eh league?

How has Plummer been? Was he the first pick in 17?

I think he's in the Padres organization now.

Still not good. He's lost 2 years to injury and was drafted as a high school pick from a cold-weather school in 2015 so he was always a loooooooong play, but things aren't looking great. I mean...I guess he's at least in full-season ball and that's worthwhile but he's not exactly excelling there. He really needed to push himself to A+ this year to keep prospect status, IMO and I don't think that's happening.

Who am I thinking of from last year?

Carlson? He was '16.

The '17 draft was when we gave up our 1st rounder for the immortal Dexter Fowler and lost a couple of 2nd rounders for the hacking scandal. That draft was essentially a non-entity. Mendoza and maybe Hurst could end up making some noise.

You may be thinking Terry Fuller. He's a GIANT of a human being who passed on a football scholarship to Clemson (IIRC) to sign. Nothing similar as a player to Fuller and was taken in the teens. If so I am contractually obligated to call you a racist. But apart from your racism, I believe Fuller is in short-season ball and that doesn't usually start until June. I don't think there are any returns from him or Delvin Perez right now.

Thanks DJ for all the info and opinions. Much appreciated.

Goold told a story on the podcast about Mabry. The final game of the Brewers series we got owned by a minor league pitcher. He didn’t really have good stuff. So he asked the hitters what happened. No one would talk on the record. But off the record they said the scouting report was over 30 days old. It was his first game in the majors because he had developed a good slider. No one on the Cardinals major league team knew this.

He went to Matheny and Mabry and asked why the report was 30 days old. They got mad and said they work hard. No comment. But, they didn’t deny it. He said he was told by the players that old scouting reports happens a lot. He can’t write about it because noone wants to go on the record.

Agreed on the "can't miss" aspect. There's all that stuff about "Matheny's guys" and not getting playing time etc, but the fact is he really didn't produce in that half season he was up. Funny how there were so many whispers of Taveras for Profar that everyone was upset about, and what has Profar done?

No talk about our two draft picks? I'm very impressed with our first two picks. We got the best raw power and best slider in the draft.

We were picking 19th and 43rd right? How did we get the "best raw power and best slider in the draft"? Going to play college BB? They had/have signability issues? Seems those talents would be gone before us.

From STL Today

When he was 3, Nolan Gorman would carry a baseball bat as he walked around the house, and his father figured he should get him started in the game.

When Gorman was 12, he hit 18 home runs over the course of three tournaments that summer in Cooperstown, N.Y. That’s when Gorman knew he had the power.

On Monday, less than a month after he turned 18, he took the next step in that baseball development. The power-hitting third baseman from Phoenix was drafted in the first round of the Major League Baseball draft by the Cardinals with the 19th pick overall.

“It’s just an awesome honor,” said Gorman, who also represents the dawn of a new era: He’s the first player taken in the MLB draft who was born in the year 2000.

The Cardinals had two other picks on the first of the draft’s three days. With their competitive balance pick after the first round, they took Griffin Roberts, a pitcher from Wake Forest who some think could be in the majors by the end of this season, and Luken Baker, a first baseman from Texas Christian whose season was ended by a broken leg.

Gorman, who’s 6-feet-1 and 210 pounds, represents baseball as it’s played in 2018. He’s a powerhouse third baseman who, as Cardinals scouting director Randy Flores said, “hit the ball really, really hard.”

As a senior at Sandra Day O’Connor High in Phoenix, Gorman hit .421 with 10 home runs and 46 walks as teams avoided pitching to him. He had a .640 on-base percentage and an .896 slugging percentage in 32 games. As further proof of what he can do, Gorman took titles at the MLB All-Star Game high school home run derby in Miami and at the Under Armour All-American Game at Wrigley Field. He hit a home run at Petco Park in San Diego at an event there.

Gorman, who has committed to Arizona (but who Flores is optimistic will sign) had been projected to go as high as ninth in some mock drafts.

“We were thrilled the way the board worked out and you can’t believe a guy, lefthanded like that, as young as he is, someone who’s done it at the biggest stages, and done it with power, was available to us,” Flores said. “We were thrilled with that pick.”

Gorman credited his father, Brian, with the early development of his swing and former big-leaguer Damion Easley, an assistant coach on his high school team, with his further development. Gorman plays golf righthanded but swings a bat lefthanded, something he said he just did on his own.

“It’s a natural swing,” Gorman said. “(My dad) doesn’t know a crazy amount of stuff about the game. He did a tremendous amount of homework on the swing and baseball and everything and took bits and pieces here and there from different websites, different books he bought, it just tied in and came together.


“Launch angle hasn’t been a focus for me. I’ve got a pretty natural upward angle in my swing. So we haven’t really worried about launch angle or anything. In offseason work with Damian, he’s not super huge on the launch-angle thing, but he thinks getting in the right position on time to hit the ball and deliver your swing is good enough. It’s pretty much what we focused on all year.”

“On the analytics side,” Flores said, “the older you get and the more you play in front of the various measurements that are available at the college game, the more analytically inclined you might be on a pick. With his youth, and it being high school, you’re also relying on your scouts there. That being said, it doesn’t take someone who’s too smart to see he hit the ball really, really hard, but we also liked his complete approach and his ability to stay on the dirt.”

It was a very good day for Gorman because his good friend Matthew Liberatore, who he’s known since they were 5, was drafted three spots ahead of him. They exchanged texts after each was chosen and each was the first person they replied to.

With their second pick, in the competitive balance round between rounds 1 and 2, the Cardinals took righthanded pitcher Roberts, a junior who could be in the majors very soon. He had 124 strikeouts in 89 1/3 innings for Wake Forest, and has an 89-93 mph fastball and a tight slider. Roberts went from being a walk-on at Wake to an All-ACC reliever to the team’s Friday starter. He was draft eligible last season but chose to come back to improve his stock and did.

“He was one of those guys we thought had a power arsenal,” Flores said. “Our hope and aim is for him to be in the rotation but candidly, we’re all seeing how major-league rosters and bullpens are evolving also. So if he turns into someone we think is going to be able to relieve with that power stuff, we will see what happens in the next couple years of his career.”

With the second-round compensation pick that they got for losing Lance Lynn as a free agent, the Cardinals took Baker, who is well regarded but has had lousy luck. The 6-4, 265 pound junior hurt his arm and needed surgery at the end of his sophomore season, and this season broke his leg on April 17, which may have contributed to him being still available with the 75th pick.

“There are some things you can’t predict,” Flores said. “You round a base and you break a leg. You have a collision and you have an injury to your shoulder. With him fighting through those injuries and still producing the way he has, and handled himself the way he has, we don’t think we have a chance to draft Luken Baker at that slot if it weren’t for those things. I know he’s bummed. I would imagine that’s part of his playing history and his resilience, and the ability to put those types of numbers together with that type of strength, in spite of that, is something we really admire.”

Baker hit .319 this season with nine home runs in 31 games and for his career hit .347.

The draft resumes at noon today with rounds three through seven and then finishes on Wednesday. There is a lot of work still to come.

“We still have 37 more picks,” Flores said late Monday.

With their second pick, in the competitive balance round between rounds 1 and 2, the Cardinals took righthanded pitcher Roberts, a junior who could be in the majors very soon. He had 124 strikeouts in 89 1/3 innings for Wake Forest, and has an 89-93 mph fastball and a tight slider. Roberts went from being a walk-on at Wake to an All-ACC reliever to the team’s Friday starter. He was draft eligible last season but chose to come back to improve his stock and did.
“He was one of those guys we thought had a power arsenal,” Flores said. “Our hope and aim is for him to be in the rotation but candidly, we’re all seeing how major-league rosters and bullpens are evolving also. So if he turns into someone we think is going to be able to relieve with that power stuff, we will see what happens in the next couple years of his career.”


89-93 is power stuff?

I bet they think they can get a little more out of his fastball and keep his slider nasty.

Gorman fell because there are questions regarding his ability to stick at 3b due to his potential to add more size as he matures and because there are real questions about his hit tool making it difficult for him to turn his raw power into game power.

When people talk about the 'best raw power in the draft' they're generally discussing that in scouting terms. 'Raw power' = the ability to flat !@#$ing murder a ball in batting practice. If you want to see a perfect example of the downside with Gorman, look up the draft reports for Josh Vitters. Vitters was a 'raw power' guy with a questionable hit tool and iffy defense. The Cubs took him ahead of a lot of much better players and in the end his hit tool absolutely wrecked him. If you look at it as a math equation you can essentially say [(Raw Power)*(hit tool) = Game Power]. As a modern analogue look at Yoan Moncada vs. Gleybar Torres. Moncada's raw power is unquestionably better than Torres but Torres hit tool is so much more advanced than Moncada's that his game power has been better than Moncada's to this point.

Lindor is what happens when a guy with solid raw power but an exceptional hit tool puts it all together. Paul DeJong is what happens when a guy with plus raw power but an iffy hit tool finds a way to make it work.

As for Roberts, the 89-93 was this season as a starter. Out of the bullpen he's seen as a 95 mph guy with an absolutely murder slider. You can find gifs of it with a 'tracer' tail and I'd imagine the contact rate on that pitch will be abysmal. I don't know how anyone would hit it - just spit on it, hope you've worked the AB long enough to get him to his 3rd pitch and wait for him to hang a fringy changeup. With his command being wobbly (and I saw a lot of strikes that were 'bad strikes' that could've been driven), I can see the risk there. He misses the zone a little more than you'd like and when he's in the zone he's in the middle too often. But shit, at this spot in the draft that's fine - he has serious shit and can absolutely be a back of the bullpen arm.

Baker - meh, likely signability guy who can't play defense anywhere but appears to have an excellent approach. Anytime you can't figure out why the Cardinals took a guy, go see if he excelled in the Cape. Baker did. If they save a bit on his slot and he ends up making it to the show as a more powerful, more polished Luke Voit, that's a good use of that pick. An advance righty bat with power off the bench will always be useful. There is some concern that they will need to go over slot to get Gorman away from his Arizona commit so this may be where they find that money.

So realistically, what would it take for the Cards to bring Machado on board and what do you make the lineup look like with him here?

If he's adamant on playing SS, do you move Dejong to 3rd? Or maybe 2nd?

If he's adamant about playing SS, that's fine. He's not been as good over there as I thought he would be but he's fine. DeJong has been better than I thought he'd be but he's still pretty much just fine. The defense would be better with DeJong at SS and Machado at 3b because Machado is an exemplary defensive 3b but it would be more than adequate with Machado at SS and DeJong at 3b.

As for what it would take - I can't even proffer a guess at this point for one reason and one reason alone - Peter !@#$ing Angelos. That guy is such a wild card. I mean if he's being reasonable, something like Hudson, Kelly and one of our half-dozen superfluous outfielders should be more than enough. A guy like JAG would be ideal but if it took Arozarenas that would be steep but doable. Oscar Mercado has made him a bit superfluous especially if Bader has also turned a corner and can keep that kind of defense with solid O.

But good luck expecting Angelos to be reasonable. He's a nut.

Yeah, it's a weird situation. They pretty much have to trade him at this point, right?

I know they're all in and they're actually good, but would the Nats consider trading Harper?

Nope.

When you have Max Scherzer and Stephen Strasburg at the height of their power along with an OF of Eaton, Harper and Soto to go with a good, deep IF and solid relief staff, you don't trade Harper.

Flags fly forever and right now the Nats are at risk of wasting the Harper years. If anything, they should be pushing in rather than selling. If they could get Herrera from KC for a reasonable price, they should look into it. You HAVE to make every effort possible to win at least a pennant if for no other reason than it might improve your ability to keep Harper in Washington.

I mean, it's not as unlikely as the National unloading Trout or the Indians trading Lindor, but it's not much more likely than that. Statistically I guess you'd call it a 'non-zero chance' which is a pretty diplomatic way of saying 'damn near 0% chance...'

About what I thought, but it's pretty much the same chance he signs back there next year, right?

And FWIW, Scherzer should be in STL right now. That was always a dumb miss if they were even seriously interested.

Nah, there's a chance he's back in Washington. In fact, I'd put them around 2 after Philly. Philly's such a quiet giant right now; their revenue stream is INSANE. They could throw an otherwordly amount of money at him.

And let's be honest here, Ted Lerner's not going to live through the end of a Bryce Harper contract. The guy's 92 and if he gives Harper a 10 year deal he has to figure that he has him, Scherzer and Strasburg locked in until he's dead. Money's no issue for a billionaire on his way out the door but he'd sure like to hang that flag before he goes.

I'd say the Phillies at 1, Nationals 2, Yankees 3, Cubs 4, Dodgers 5. 'The field' after that lot is pretty distant, IMO. There's a chance of the mystery team popping up (and just assume that the mystery team will be Arte Moreno being batshit insane) but those 5 are pretty clear frontrunners in my eyes.

Oh, and yeah, losing Scherzer suu*******s. Pretty brutal miss for a kid that grew up a Cardinals fan and wanted to pitch here.

I wonder if Soto's emergence could convince the Nats to get super aggressive and dangle Robles. They could get a damn nice return there. I mean, he probably could've been a centerpiece in a Yelich deal so that's the kind of talent they could seek.

I wonder if the Royals fans would take Robles as the main return in a Perez and Herrera deal. Maybe Robles, Luis Garcia and Raudy Reed for Perez and Herrera?

It would sting in 2019 if they lost Harper and didn't have Robles to put out there with Soto and try to replace his production, but if they lose Harper they need to focus more on finding a new normal and perhaps Perez can help there with Michael Taylor being a flawed but functional starter in center. They could re-allocate the Harper money to retaining Herrera and just try to win in a different way.

But man, it would sure make their biggest weakness look good in a hurry (catcher) and vault that bullpen into the upper tiers of the NL.

Yeah, but I doubt they move off Robles because of the Harper situation.

I was talking with a royals friend the other day about what it would take to get Herrera to STL as our bullpen is ass.

But I'd prefer to go the Machado route if it was an either or.

im still pissed about passing on Scherez. He wanted to come here. To come home. We weren’t dying for pitching but you get a chance to land elite talent like that, you make room.