Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 13664872)

The plaque for the alternates is in the lady's room.

The Cardinals have 'competed' for several FAs over the last 10 years and it's gotten them nowhere because their options are to either overpay as the high bidder or lose. They simply don't have the cache they once had that can put them over the top in these FA pursuits.

They need to focus on getting that back as well as the 'trade/sign' sort of longer term plays. I'm sure they'll make 'competitive' offers for Machado and maybe even Harper, but they won't get either guy because they don't have the kicker to put it over the top.

They just aren't a destination franchise right now. It's a damn shame because there really isn't anything that makes the Phillies more desireable than STL apart from perception. They don't have a slew of young hitters banging the door down. We have young pitching talent that compares favorably to theirs as well. We should be neck and neck with them in terms of desirability but I just don't think we are.

And when they can also outspend us, I don't see how we win a showdown with them.

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 13665119)

I think a lot of our issues with attracting talent was Matheny. His stubborn non-fun approach to the game. If you have a choice, would you want to play for him?

Larussa and Belechick attracted players willing to put up with their “hard ass” approach because they want to win a championship. No one thought Matheny was so smart or capable of willing a team to a championship.

Also you have to wonder if the whole Ferguson issue is a lingering thing. The image of a community of rednecks, deserved or not, takes forever to get out of the public’s mind.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 13665180)

Stl just won another player poll of most impressive fanbase.

Players still understand that playing in front of the fans in STL is a pretty sweet gig. But they dont trust the organizations leadership. Matheny is gone, sure, but Shildt will have to prove himself and frankly so will Mozeliak.

The problem isnt the town and it isnt the jersey. It's the management.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 13665085)

Cubs fans, deep in the darkest recesses of their souls where they never let Cardinals fans, will acknowledge that the present incarnation of that squad starting in/around the 2014 season and probably running through 2021 or so really should win more than a single championship. Now there's still a pretty decent chance that they do - but if they don't their pitching will be the culprit.

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 13665431)

Well......

That and Theo's stupid ****ing trades.

He made a bunch of quality ones for guys like Arrieta, Hendricks, Russell, etc... But then he went and ****ed it all up by trading a top 5 prospects in MiLB for a rental closer. I can forgive him for that because it broke the WS drought, but just compare what the Indians gave up for a guy with control and equally as elite to the same team.

Fine, whatever, I'll make that trade again given the outcome.

But then he went and did the same god damn shit for a guy that is a #3 pitcher at best in Quintana.

The Astros did it way better than Theo. They went out and got guys that at their peak are legitimate aces. For christ sakes their #5 pitcher to start the season was ****ing Gerrit Cole.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 13664944)

Just don't see it - not with the Astros. That's not a team that NEEDS to bend to the whims of a FA. And the Astros have openly acknowledged that they do have a budget and it's going to be tough to keep their young core together. I expect they let Springer walk and replace him with Tucker, but where they're really going to struggle is likely starting pitching.

Morton and Keuchel are both FAs this offseason, Verlander and Cole next. Sure, a lot of money comes off the books but in Verlander and Cole, so will the heart of their pitching staff. Moreover, their depth in will be sorely taxed if/when Morton and Keuchel walk, especially since McCullers just cannot stay healthy.

They have a high-end hitting prospect at 1b and a lot of money they need to allocate to keeping their pitching staff intact. I just cannot see them spending a premium on Machado just to take a guy like Correa and stick him at 3b while putting Bregman in the OF. That move does a ton to undercut both guys overall value to the squad.

The marginal benefit of that kind of financial outlay won't match spending that same money on keeping their starting staff together or finding their eventual replacements. Forrest Whitley can only do so much...

Regarding Phillies vs. Cardinals - hey, I'm inclined to agree but that sure isn't the narrative you're seeing in baseball right now. To hear it told, the Cardinals are lower than the Rays at the moment. I remain hopeful that a strong second half under Shildt and some happier players going into the offseason polishes the apple a bit but it's going to take time to become someplace players want to go again. I just think its impossible to overstate the damage Matheny has done to this teams standing.

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 13665464)

Take the Cubs: built entirely from less-risk high profile hitters, opting to build pitching with cast offs that were undervalued. Theo lost his way, panicked to get Quintana (understandable), and got totally destroyed by Darvish.

Imagine if he spent the Darvish $$$ on JD Martinez.

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 13665480)

I mean... think before you speak.

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 13665474)

How did Theo get totally destroyed by Darvish? He got a guy with ace material for below market value because of his injuries. He hasn't pitched well, yet, for the Cubs and he's been on the DL for awhile but year 1 isnt even complete yet and the Cubs are still in first place sitting pretty.

What is he going to do with JD Martinez? There's no room for him on this team.