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-   -   Chiefs Whitlock- It’s OK to question Pioli and the Chiefs (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=203866)

Just Passin' By 03-09-2009 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 5567787)
Yes, dumb to factor in positional value when drafting. Very stupid, indeed.

The problem with positional value is that there are people here that are using it as an absolute bar to drafting players. That's just a foolish approach, especially in a year where the talent on the top is bunched together rather than having the "elite" types of prospects.

DeezNutz 03-09-2009 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5567861)
The problem with positional value is that there are people here that are using it as an absolute bar to drafting players. That's just a foolish approach, especially in a year where the talent on the top is bunched together rather than having the "elite" types of prospects.

Obviously we have to factor in circumstances, no question. And this year certainly presents some challenges.

I'm sure the criticism of my post was generated from my skepticism of the sure-fire HOFer, Curry, who will instantly become the leader of our destitute defense.

It could be that he's the pick. But I expect Pioli to take less to trade back, and Curry at 8-12 would make a hell of a lot more sense.

notorious 03-09-2009 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 5567871)

It could be that he's the pick. But I expect Pioli to take less to trade back, and Curry at 8-12 would make a hell of a lot more sense.

That would be sweet, but who do you think will be the other suitor and for what player? No sarcasm, just a straight question.

Just Passin' By 03-09-2009 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 5567871)
Obviously we have to factor in circumstances, no question. And this year certainly presents some challenges.

I'm sure the criticism of my post was generated from my skepticism of the sure-fire HOFer, Curry, who will instantly become the leader of our destitute defense.

It could be that he's the pick. But I expect Pioli to take less to trade back, and Curry at 8-12 would make a hell of a lot more sense.

I wasn't aiming specifically at you, by any means. I just mean in general. The Chiefs are in an interesting position because the only players 'worth' a top pick this year in the minds of many pundits are QBs and LTs. Well, the Chiefs don't need either of them unless Halioli thinks Albert should be moved to RT for some reason. That puts the team in the position of having to either find a trade partner to drop down or to take a player that many will consider a 'reach'.

There's just no helping that this year. My guess is that Raji will be the pick, but that's obviously still fluid at this point.

sedated 03-09-2009 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 5567879)
That would be sweet, but who do you think will be the other suitor and for what player? No sarcasm, just a straight question.

Crabtree/Seattle would have been great leverage had the m-f'r not hurt himself.

DeezNutz 03-09-2009 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 5567907)
I wasn't aiming specifically at you, by any means. I just mean in general. The Chiefs are in an interesting position because the only players 'worth' a top pick this year in the minds of many pundits are QBs and LTs. Well, the Chiefs don't need either of them unless Halioli thinks Albert should be moved to RT for some reason. That puts the team in the position of having to either find a trade partner to drop down or to take a player that many will consider a 'reach'.

There's just no helping that this year. My guess is that Raji will be the pick, but that's obviously still fluid at this point.

No, I know. I was just using your post as a springboard to make a point. No worries.

I agree. I think Raji is going to be the guy. Makes me sick when thinking about Dorsey, though.

DeezNutz 03-09-2009 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 5567879)
That would be sweet, but who do you think will be the other suitor and for what player? No sarcasm, just a straight question.

If both QB's were on the board, there are some possibilities: Jax at 8, SF at 10, or even Buff at 11.

We'd have to be willing to take much less than chart value, I'm sure, but there's little question that Stafford, in particular, would draw much interest.

Sweet Daddy Hate 03-09-2009 12:04 PM

47 Days. 47 days and this shit is over thank GOD.

SenselessChiefsFan 03-09-2009 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan (Post 5567982)
47 Days. 47 days and this shit is over thank GOD.

No.... just postponed for 250 days or so.

htismaqe 03-09-2009 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 5567716)
#1) The people who were bashing Trent Green in 2001 were clueless. Given who his starting WR's were, and that the WR's were in flux constantly all season.... his interceptions were to be expected.

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter WHY they hated Green, it only matters that they did. Fortunately for both Green and Vermeil, he righted the ship in 2002.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 5567716)
I think the level of play for Cassel to be successful is much less than if the Chiefs drafted a QB at #3.

Agree. But the level of risk for Pioli personally is MUCH greater.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 5567716)
If Cassel is merely a good game manager and a decent starter, most will consider the trade to be a success and good value.

I can tell you with 100% unequivocal certainty that you're wrong on this. With Pioli's history - especially his history with Cassel - if Cassel turns out to be a "game manager" the large majority of the fanbase will be very unhappy about it. Chiefsplanet does not in anyway represent the majority of the fanbase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 5567716)
#1) If Sanchez is a total bust and he was the only one available.... Pioli will look good even if Cassel is also a bust.

Nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 5567716)
#2) If the Chiefs draft a HOF player at #3, then Pioli will look good even if Cassel is a bust.

If said HOF player takes the Chiefs to the SB and wins it, IN SPITE OF Cassel, then yes. But since the chance of winning a SB while simultaneously having Cassel fail is slim to none, there's not much chance of this one happening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 5567716)
#3) If Cassel is merely a good game manager and they draft a great player at #3, Pioli looks great.

Absolutely false.

Titty Meat 03-09-2009 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 5567879)
That would be sweet, but who do you think will be the other suitor and for what player? No sarcasm, just a straight question.

Jax needs a O-linemen and they pick at 8. If we trade down to 8 I'd say don't draft Aaron Curry draft Everette Brown at 8.

Sweet Daddy Hate 03-09-2009 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 5568048)
No.... just postponed for 250 days or so.

God I hope we start doing some winning right off the top, or it will be another commencement of draft talk in week three.

Razorblades and glass cocktail; that's exactly what it feels like.

htismaqe 03-09-2009 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 5567842)
I dissagree. I think that the QB at #3 would have to be a franchise QB... but I see what you are saying.

I don't think Cassel was a risky move. I think he will be a serviceable QB at worst that will give the Chiefs a chance to compete as they continue to draft and develop young QB's looking for the next great one.

Cassel has already played a season at a high level against NFL defenses, so from this point, he may not 'ascend' much more. So, I can see why he doesn't have too much upside.

But that is more because Sanchez and Stafford have proven nothing, so even getting to where Cassel was last year.... would be a tremendous achievement.

You're confusing the risk of the move to the team, aka wins and losses vs. the risk to Pioli's reputation in KC, aka being compared to Carl.

If Cassel doesn't come in here and become a Pro Bowl-caliber, playoff winning QB, Pioli will be "Carl Peterson II" for perpetuity.

Hell, there's ALREADY people making the comparison.

beach tribe 03-09-2009 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 5567871)
Obviously we have to factor in circumstances, no question. And this year certainly presents some challenges.

I'm sure the criticism of my post was generated from my skepticism of the sure-fire HOFer, Curry, who will instantly become the leader of our destitute defense.

It could be that he's the pick. But I expect Pioli to take less to trade back, and Curry at 8-12 would make a hell of a lot more sense.

You're right in any other draft probably, but I don't think there's any way Curry lasts that long in this draft.

beach tribe 03-09-2009 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 5568057)
Jax needs a O-linemen and they pick at 8. If we trade down to 8 I'd say don't draft Aaron Curry draft Everette Brown at 8.

They would have to cause Curry won't be there.IMO.


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