Unless there's a 3-4 (preferably 3) year reasonable deal to go along with this trade, I'm out. I don't think this team is ready for the SB this year, so why give up anything for a 3/4 year rental? I'd rather build a dynasty through the draft and retaining our own stars.

Nope. Not with the way he's acting. You either have the extension ready and waiting for his signature or you don't make the trade.

Yeah....I'm not trading for Bell without a contract in place.

But then again....I wouldn't trade for Bell at all.

It's the Jets. Need I say more?

Nobody is arguing against his value. I would love to get him for a 2nd.

I've actually been quite clear on that.

Draft picks still have value. They're what KC built this offense with.

Fair enough.

AFC is wide ****ing open right now, the Steelers are not good, the Patriots have probems...

The time is right now.

They know offensive talent, I won't dispute that.

Something is obviously holding Veach back or this deal would have been done in August.

****

Let's say we make the trade without an extension. Thomas for a 2nd. He continues what he's doing by not taking practice seriously until he gets paid. Now what? It's not like he's been in this unit for years and can perform at the same level while missing practice

Why would you trade for him and not pay him..why is that even a topic? It would make no sense to not pay him if you make the deal.

This team is not trading for Thomas and expecting him to play out the last year of his contract. If we trade for him....it's because we have an extension in place for him to sign.

Also something else to consider, a reason I'm not super worried about guys leaving or cap stuff is this reason...

If Mahomes is the man, if this team is on this trajectory we will have some older vets that can still play and want to win signing for cheaper deals. Ole Horseface built a superbowl winner out of guys like that.

Having a star QB has it's benefits and that is one of them, don't forget that.

Well then the question becomes... is KC doing a poor job in picking defensive talent, or are they doing a piss poor job DEVELOPING that talent?

With a track record like they have picking defense over the past 5 years, I'd say it's a little of column A and a little of column B. Even a guy like Chris Jones who definitely HAS talent hasn't really developed as a talent since he arrived has he? He's the same guy he was as a rookie.

Obviously some of the problem is the instruction they receive once they're here.

Well they do have 2 really ****ing old guys and the HC's son on that defensive staff...that isn't exactly awesome sounding.

But at the same time look at some of those picks, Kpass total project, Speaks a casual fan can look at him and see that he is fat and slow.

Houston is 50/50 to return next season. We have $41 million in cap space BEFORE we cut him next season. If he's gone....then we'll have $55 million. Who are the important players that we need to sign?

Mitch Morse? Maybe.
Harrison Butker? Sure.
Anthony Sherman? Sure.

We can start talking contract with Hill after this season and we should.....but we'll have $41 ****ing million dollars to work with and that's if we're keeping Houston. And if Thomas only costs a 2nd round pick....then we still have a 1st, 2nd and 3rd to fill holes on the defensive side of the ball.

Or C the plays called are not exploiting the talent

Bingo, and the CB market is complete asshole next year so there won't be a signing there...

Thomas fills a massive need and about the only other guy in FA I might consider taking a look at is Clowney cause I think you might be able to get a deal there.

No one is making the trade with out an extension

LMAO

Why do you keep asking this hypothetical?

True. In regards to Kpass and the team as a whole (Murray too) it seems KC goes after athletes and hopes to develop them into football players.

The offensive staff seems able to do that, while the defensive staff does not.

Speaks just flat looks like he can't play, and far too many guys just seem to lack instincts.

What's Houston's contract compared to the better players in the league who've recently signed deals?

Kyle Fuller signed a 4 year 60 million dollar deal. Olivier Vernon 5 year 85 million.

Not sure we should cut Houston.

It's hard to blame the scheme when I spot multiple blown assignments on something as basic as a cover 3 zone.

Speaks doesn't even look like an athlete though, so I don't really get what they saw in him.

Yeah, that's why I brought him up separately. When I say 'he can't play' I mean I don't see ANYTHING that from him that makes me think he can develop into an impact rusher.

Kpass at least has the measurables, but I lose faith in players when they can't make an impact in year 2.

The NFL isn't what it used to be. It used to take guys years to acclimate tot he NFL. You never knew until year 3.

It seems more or less guys hit the ground running now. That's especially true with running backs and pass rushers.

His contract is similar to J.J. Watt's contract.

Someone to "pick me up a sammich" from Mcdonalds on the way to the facility? Looks like he has the Big Mac thing down.

Because there are a couple of people making the argument to trade for him even without an extension.

https://overthecap.com/position/edge-rusher

He's still pretty high...

That's just crazy, no way we would do that.

Actually I'm kind of wondering what Brett Veach likes in D players if you look at who he has brought in...Speaks, Ragland, even Hitchens to a degree.

These guys are not super athletic speed guys, these are all huge dudes who are a little slower. That was the type of defense that worked great in the 80s not so much in todays game.

Houston's deal was a 6 year 101 million dollar contract. 20 million signing bonus, 52 million guaranteed.

He took home 32 million up front.

I hope Speaks comes back to make us all look like fools, but this far he has been lackluster at best.

Count me in the Camp of trading for Thomas and giving him an extension. He and Berry are the two best safeties in he league. I know what people say: one player can’t make a defense, look at JJ Watt, blah blah blah.

Replacing your weakest link with the strongest player at the position in the league matters. Also, if JJ Watt had Mahomes, he’d have a ring.

I think Speaks was supposed to be a project that eventually replaced Houston. Able to set the edge and more of a power rusher. Hitchens was a good signing....I think he just needs more time in this scheme to get used to it. Ragland was a trade to fill the run defense because we literally had dick next to DJ.

Dude made it a priority to shore up the run defense....not fully expecting teams to have to start airing it out in the 1st quarter of games. I think we'll be happy with his moves more in games where it's close or we have to come from behind.

You know I've never really looked at some of these guys cap numbers so closely..why the **** does Sorenson have a 5.3 million dollar cap figure?

Who signs a role player to that deal?

Veach wanted to stop the run first. That’s clearly what the offseason was about. Stop Le’Veon Bell and Derrick Henry.

Yeah, when I think about it KC's personnel strategy on defense is pretty reactionary. They signed Hitchens because he's a good run defender and their run defense was awful. They traded for Ragland because they had NOTHING at ILB.

There's no real vision behind it.

The 49er torched that run defense to a tune of 6.1 YPC...

Dorsey.

1 TFL, 1 sack/fumble negated by holding call in Pittsburgh
2 sacks, 1 FF, 3.5 TFL, 2 QB hits on Sunday

Right now I’m keeping Houston. He was held like a mother****er in Pittsburgh and still should have had a sack/fumble. Probably gonna get another sack this week.

I’m keeping him over Ford

Pest - those moves were made for January, not September. If teams have a lead, how do they protect it? Run the ball and keep Party Pat off the field.

If we stop the run, we can come back from any deficit.

Dude....in the prevent defense.....sure.

I know you aren't saying I was....but I wasn't advocating for cutting him. Just pointing out that you can afford Thomas next year even with re-signing players that we want to keep.

Which in today's NFL, just isn't smart.

Teams wanna run in on you? Fine. They can't score that fast and if you have a good offense let them run it.

Hey man - I never said he actually succeeded. Just that it was the plan. LMAO

:facepalm:

Signing Watkins means Veach believes we can outshoot Brady and The Rapist in the playoffs.

Signing Hitchens and Williams is for stopping the run in a grind it out type game against Jax

This defense just has to be ok, the team has some money to play with, taking on a star to try to win a bowl. I think everyone in the Chiefs fandom can understand that.

Just backloading a 4 year deal worth 4 million per year. Only hit the cap for 1.7 last year.

Yeah, I know. "Who pays a role player 4 million a year?"

The Chiefs. The Chiefs do that.

He's not even really that good of a role player, you should be able to draft a replacement for that role in like round 4 or 5 of a draft...yet we pay him.

Pretty sure Eric Murray has proven Sorenson isn't a "role" player.

Yep. Please. Please keep running the ball when you play the Chiefs!

That's the tragedy of all this, and precisely why trading for Thomas is a good idea.

I would go back to the playoff games and review. Passing didn’t beat us.

I don’t like the Speaks pick, but I guess I see the logic behind it.

Eric Murray is a bum, role players are better than bums. The problem is Sorenson should be a role player/backup but yea..

Not scoring any second half points was a bit of a problem.

It held them to what, 23 points though?

I mean, in today's NFL if your d can hold a team to that, you should win.

Except you have to stop the run in the first half to make sure that your offense can get you ahead of the other team.

Mahomes is 4-0 when the other team score 24+. :D

Yeah, but the way this team picks/develops safeties...

This defense has been shit ever since Abdullah retired. Dude was under-rated... Well, he was a lot better than the guys we've replaced him with anyway.

I mean, you can't be complete ass vs the run obviously, like last in the league.

But just don't suck at it.

It was an overreaction what they did.

I'll say this, I think players like Reggie Ragland are going to become fewer and fewer in the NFL. He has a role at times but even in base defense he is a liability.

All these teams have multiple TE's and backs that are receiving game threats, so unless you know a team is pounding the rock to try to end the game why would they not audible out and just beat him in the pass game every single time?

The big bulky run defenders who don't cover well are really a problem with how the game is played now. I mean he has a use against like Jacksonville but most teams can take advantage of a guy like that playing.

The way this offense is now running the ball shouldn't be a huge concern.

Get pass rushers. Get better defensive backs. Draft for coverage and pass rushing.

Teams will be passing a LOT to keep up with KC's offense for the next several years.

I think his knee is still bothering him because he usually isn't THIS bad.

That's what they should have done this past offseason though. Even if you're team isn't a prolific offense, you should be geared to rush the passer and stop the pass.

He also looks fatter than before...there are 4-3 DEs that look more svelt than he does actually.

But they didn't. That's in the past. They can help remedy that though by trading for Thomas.

Yea Brett Veach is gonna trade for Thomas and sign Breeland because he is willing to play for all of the porn Dayton Moore confiscated from his players for the season!

Super bowl baby!

Earl Thomas

Adding the two best safeties in the league to this defense would ****ing matter, period. If Berry gets healthy and Thomas comes over, the entire middle of the field is a no fly zone.

Even if Berry doesn't come back for a while.......trading for Thomas eliminates the weakest spot in this secondary.

When he’s on the team what number will he be?

Whatever one he wants....

Chadiha said the Chiefs were terrified of the defense costing them in January and are looking at ways to improve the defense. Maybe this gets done after all.

It honestly needs to. It's the perfect ****ing marriage of talent and need. Murray sucks and Thomas instantly makes this defense better....Berry or no Berry.

How good would this defense be if we traded for Thomas, Berry came back in a couple of weeks and we got Sorensen back towards the end of the season?

Just don't see it happening with things as they are. Seattle will probably stop being ****ing reeruned and just extend the guy like they should have a while ago.

Do it.

Just come on. Please. I need this today. Do it.

C'mon Earl. Stop going to practice.

Some randos on twitter think they saw Earl Thomas at KCI last night

You've got 4 years of cheap ass QB play.

Lets do this.

Yes!