I can't wait for some more Breeland Speaks.

Been saying that for 2 years.

Race the track, not the drivers. Choose YOUR course and execute it; stopped trying to be reactive to what everyone else is doing around you.

Veach makes panic moves when he gets caught flat-footed. He gets tunnel-vision and then can't audible when things don't go as he expected. He decides his outcomes before he determines the costs.

He sure as shit appears to work backwards. "I want Mathieu - I'll just keep hitting 'bid' until it happens...." "I want Frank Clark, I'll pay what it costs..." "I'm dealing Ford/Peters - I'll just take what I can get..." "Well damn, the Cowboys are in on Watkins, guess I'll just pay him like a #1..."

Over and over and over again. "Well the DEs are lookin' sparse, better trade up and take Breeland Speaks..." His pattern is so damn clear at this point. He's not a calculating decision-maker. He doesn't know when to pull the chute and look to plan B.

And if it's Andy pulling the strings, so be it. Whatever the case may be, we have a real problem in this front office and Veach is the public face of it.

And the architect of this properly executed draft would be....?

Which is why I said had he been in control during the Mahomes draft and not Dorsey we'd either not have him or we'd have traded an entire draft for him.

But hey to staylor that's a dumb take.

Would you stop with this shit. It’s Andy making this shit he got his hand picked GM. If you really think Veach has final say i feel for you.

Then fire them both and call Clark Hunt a moron, Reid has never done shit to show you he deserves full control.

Damn I just watched the Watson TD at the end of the game.

Frank Clark seemed intimidated as ****, he had absolutely no clue what to do. Zero urgency, dude had the opportunity to go after him and he just sat back.

He legitimately has to be the worst defensive player on this team followed by Breeland.

Yup I’m so over Andy.

Did ya keep reading or just make it a few paragraphs in?

Like I said, I neither know nor care who's in control of that room right now. You aren't any more privy to that information than any of us (and BTW, I was HUGELY pro-Dorsey and was calling Veach a puppet hire from the moment it was made).

But it's Veach that has the title and Veach that is the public face of all of it. If it's Veach making decisions, get rid of him and bring in someone else. If it's Andy....get rid of Veach and tell Andy he has to work with someone that isn't a mouth-breathing bag boy.

In either event, you need someone else in that decisionroom and Reid won't be leaving Patrick Mahomes so you force his !@#$ing hand. I don't care who the blame ultimately rests on because the answer is the same - replace Brett Veach with someone with the organizational cache and/or wherewithal to do this job correctly.

Now now, have you seen the LB's? LOLOLOL

Ben Niemann is like Dan Sorensons idiot brother that is about the same size and just runs slower while being about the same size. Darron Lee is pretty awful and really they're all awful.

I will say that the 2 positives yesterday were Juan Thornhill and Martinas Rankin. Both looked very good for young guys.

Andy is the GM, but apparently didn’t know anything about Rankin when he was acquired. That makes me wonder if Veach found this guy?

I’m furious with him right now, but Veach is not a completely lost cause IMO. He just needs to quit getting tunnel vision like with Sammy and Clark.

Ogbah, Hardman, Rankin (so far) and Thornhill are good cheap pick up’s this year. I’d say Okafor and D. Wilson (even though he had a poor game yesterday) were decent pick up’s too.

I got heated, but the fact is if Veach starts making moves for players like the ones listed above, we’ll all be more happy with him.

Now Andy? That’s a lost cause

Watson is intimidating to be fair, he can juke you out of your shoes if you take the wrong angle. I'm actually happy that Clark made contact out of the endzone at all, I'm more pissed by the lack of help that he had from any of our Linebackers though. You get two hats heading towards Watson, he'll make a rushed throw vs trying to take on two guys to get into the endzone.

Some of you Dorsey guys need to lay this at his feet too. Dorsey was about as bad as Veach. He squandered this defense and Beach is carrying that on.

His defensive draft picks were mostly shit. And looking at how good Indy’s corners are, I think Ballard was the one mostly responsible for finding Peters.

I can list off pro bowl players drafted by John Dorsey, he also signed FA's that produced here.

Give me that list for Veach.

Clark played 70% of the teams snaps yesterday meanwhile NNadi a DT played 76 snaps!! 76!!!!!!!!!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> ED Frank Clark had a few season highs and a career high on Sunday<br><br>• 89.9 Run D grade (Career Best)<br>• 5 Pressures (Season High)<br>• 2 QB Hits (Season High)<br>• 1 Forced Fumble (1st of 2019)<br><br>��: Jay Biggerstaff, USA Today<a href="https://t.co/eQoKvEmIss">https://t.co/eQoKvEmIss</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a> <a href="https://t.co/aL7JExjaC0">pic.twitter.com/aL7JExjaC0</a></p>&mdash; PFF KC Chiefs (@PFF_Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Chiefs/status/1183778579710169094?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 14, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What about sacks?? He couldn’t do shit vs the O Line

LMAO Love that the picture is him tackling Watson for a TD.

Clark is a better run defender than the rest of the guys but guess what, the other team just runs away from him.

The Texans ran at Okafor repeatedly.

They really used a picture of him getting bullied by a 215 lb QB ROFL

Dorsey was at the top of the waiver wire while Veach was at the bottom. Don’t give me Tyreek, Fisher, Kelce or any other offensive players.

Andy found those players without Dorsey in Philly and Hardman is another example of him finding it without him.

Dorsey ain't really killing it in Cleveland up to this point.

Shawn Smith at CB is a far better signing than anything Veach has pulled...Mitch Schwartz? Dorsey drafted Jones...

Still even if you want to literally take away a bunch of Dorseys moves he's still better.

..why can't i start a new thread on the board yet?

You couldn't hack it...

WHO'S THE WEAK ONE NOW, LEWDOG???????

YOU ARE.

I HAVE TEH BIG PEEN.

YOU HAVE TEH LITTLE PEEN.

so, the ligament in his elbows is it still an issue? Like we wouldn't have traded for him if he was injured right? Please god tell me thats not true

It looks like you haven't completed the essay portion of the application yet. We need 2,000 words on why you're a Chiefs fan and whether you think Patrick Mahomes II could throw a ball out of the Earth's gravitational well.

Or optionally, you can choose to make 100 good posts or something like that.

Would you be surprised? I wouldn't...

Ogbah is as about as good of a move as Sean Smith so far. How can you not give Ballard credit for a lot of these moves?

Dorsey has been a disaster in Cleveland. Baker was a terrible pick (5TD/11 INT), he chose a scrawny corner over Chubb who had 12 sacks last year.

He got flat out raped by Veach in the Ogbah/Murray trade. Oh and did I mention that OBJ has 1 TD? That’s their version of Frank Clark.

Meanwhile Ballard is killing it in the draft. Did you see his rookies Okereke and Khari Willis? That’s not even counting Braden Smith and Darius Leonard. Jesus that guy is good at finding talent.

Rick Burkholder probably said he is good to go, like he did fisher this year, Justin Houston in the playoffs when he retore his acl, Eric Berry, or any other guy who has had an injury with us that we haven't taken seriously.

Ya Ballard is the guy we missed on big time. He has brought in legit ****ing talent and they still have a massive amount of cap space because he doesn't let it burn a hole in his pocket.

Yeah I think Ballard is the guy that should've been our GM.

He 100% should've been and all logic would say that's what they were grooming him for but he was never going to be a yes man so there you go....

Yupp. Sure hope sending Ballard to Indy and keeping veach isn’t our modern day version of keeping Grbac over rich gannon

Look at the big ass brace in that picture above. AND he ran off the field in pain, clutching it on one occasion.

It’s definitely still an issue.

And as I've mentioned before; the issue with his D picks was mostly one of priority. It was that he simply didn't put a lot of capital at the defense, not that he often swung and missed.

He had one true 'miss' in the 1st or 2nd round (K-Pass) on defensive players. And a couple rough 3rd rounders (Russell and to a lesser extent Gaines, but injury ruined that pick more than potential).

He has Ford, Jones, Peters and Nelson (who yes, was a very good pick) on his ledger. In 5 years running the show he missed on a single 2nd round defensive player and a 3rd rounder, with something of an INC for Gaines, who looked good until he got injured and somehow is still in the NFL (so how bad could that pick really be?).

Dorsey was revered 'round these parts until he got fired, then all of the sudden people forgot about how instrumental he was in building this team. If Veach does HALF of what Dorsey did, we'd win multiple championships. I suspect he won't.

At this point, if Veach went the Pioli route and only drafted college team captains with high floors at every position, we'd be in okay shape.

That's not how you build a real championship contender for most teams, but if you're the Chiefs with a QB like Mahomes, having a defense of nothing but those kind of guys with a lucky hit or two here and there might just be enough.

If Dorsey was still here our defense would still be trash.

Why did our defense start getting bad? Bc Poe left, bc DJ started having major injuries, bc Tamba had run his course and his body was finished, bc Houston got injured.

Dorsey does not get credit for Marcus Peters being such a tool bag that even Andy couldn’t deal with him anymore.

He chose to pass on Bradley Chubb, who had 12 sacks as a rookie, for a corner who has done dick. He passed on Chubb bc he had Ogbah. But wait! Ogbah got traded for Eric Murray. Veach flat out raped Dorsey on that.

Now compare this to what Ballard has done and it’s night and day from what Veach and Dorsey have done combined.

And yes I truly believe that Ballard played a huge part in our success before he left.

The Playground Spazzout. Spin and flail your arms in all directions as you otherwise nestle softly into the tackles arms.

The Hysterical Woman. Pound your fists against the tackle's chest as you slowly lose consciousness and slump to the ground.

To be fair - Clark seems to be trying a lot harder than Haynesworth did. However in some ways that makes it worse. There's no hope right now.

If he goes after him Watson just makes a move and runs by. Clark knew he was hosed either way and just hoping for help to arrive. Which it didn't because it never does with our D.

I don't know why you keep ****ing this 'Bradley Chubb' chicken.

Corner is the hardest commodity on the market to get right now. Instead of taking a DE (when he has Garrett), Dorsey went and snagged a CB who made the pro bowl as a rookie.

You ALWAYS ignore that. You always say he took some skinny corner without saying "who had one of the better seasons by a rookie CB in recent memory". Instead you flat out ****ing lie and say he's 'done dick'.

And I know it's intentional because I've pointed this out to you on several occasions yet you just keep acting like Ward was a scrub. He wasn't - dude was an elite CB last season and I suspect many, if not most, GMs would rather have him than Chubb.

As for the rest, you're just picking and choosing to fit your narrative. You're giving Ballard credit for any good defensive pick we make and blaming Dorsey for any bad one. Based on what, I do not know. Then again, you don't either so I guess we're even. 'K-Pass was clearly a Dorsey pick as was Peters, but you know Jones and Nelson were Ballard picks...."

Sure we do, sport. Sure we do.

Look - if Dorsey was a pile of wet garbage, we're in a LOT more trouble than I realized. Veach isn't half the GM Dorsey was.

Is it just me, or could Ragland cleaned up Watson before getting into the end zone?

....I like this site, and I like you guys.

Pass rusher is also a damned hard position to find, and they are about 30% more expensive than a corner, so FA presents a giant risk (i.e Frank Clark).

Denzel Ward had 2 career college INT’s. Two. On the most talented defense in the country? And Dorsey passed on him for a stud that had 25 sacks and 54.5 TFL’s playing for NC State?

C’mon now. You say this all the time. Draft the best players available. We all know that. Instead Dorsey committed the cardinal sin and drafted simply for need.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cle...outputType=amp

And he even mentioned that having Ogbah helped his decision to choose Ward, but yet he gave this guy away and looks all the more awful for doing so.

Yes I do believe that Ballard had a tremendous influence on drafting our best players before he left. He gave approval for Marcus Peters (which also deserves criticism).

Can you blame anyone for thinking that Ballard was the crux that helped us net our stars? Dorsey was given tons of high picks and more money than anyone, along with a draft with 2 highly thought of QB’s to choose from to start his job and he looks like a disaster.

His hand picked QB is a disaster that everyone outside of Cleveland hates. His corner picked top 5 has done nothing but get hurt all the time. His OL he choose with the first pick in the 2nd rd is a bust.

Meanwhile Ballard had the hardest start to a career for any GM ever with both a coach and elite QB bitching out on him at the last minute and he is flourishing.

Darius Leonard and Braden Smith were taken directly after Dorsey’s 2nd rd picks.

It’s clear that Ballard is awesome and Dorsey/Veach are both below par.

I don't have a problem concluding that Ballard is good - seems pretty damn likely that's the case.

My problem is the piecemeal dissection of Dorsey trying to conclude he's bad. He isn't - you look at what he brought in here and you're focusing solely on defense without giving credit at all for where he's hit the mark on elsewhere. Hill, Kelce and Jones were outstanding picks and you're just gonna call them Ballard picks? Based on what? And all 3 of those guys are easily on par with Leonard or Smith (I'm not convinced Smith's great anyway).

And you want to cite college stats for Ward and then say he's done nothing but get hurt while STILL ignoring that he made the Pro Bowl last year and was among the best coverage corners in the game. Seriously - that kid is GOOD. He has more potential than Chubb, IMO. Guy can easily be one of the 5 best CBs in football for the next 6-8 years. And let's just set aside the irony of Chubb being on the IR right now when you're blasting away at Ward's injury history.

Dorsey wasn't given 'tons of high picks' precisely because he WAS good. He immediately had this team in the playoffs after taking over a 3 win friggen squad. Oh, and his 'reward' for inheriting such a shit team was to get 1.1 in probably the worst draft in 25 years. And with that pick he took the only guy in the top 10 who's been a truly good player. Then he took an aging squad and flipped it into a team with a lot of exciting young players and positive momentum (that Veach is well on his way to squandering). He also executed the single most critical deal in franchise history to get up to EXACTLY where he needed to get to grab Patrick Mahomes. We really gonna handwaive that?

Mayfield...eh, is what it is. No, I don't like Mayfield at all. I think he's a monumental assbag. But did this board (myself and I'm sure you included) not spend a decade before Mahomes saying "FFS, at least TRY to get your quarterback!! If it fails, it fails - try again..."? By that very logic would he have been better served taking Rosen? Darnold? Allen? Darnold has a very low ceiling, Allen has among the lower floors you'll ever see. If you were looking for something of a mix of upside, floor and maybe a little bit of attitude, Mayfield was really the only guy out there. I can't kill him for that pick; why should I? He adhered to a logic that just about everyone on this board has adhered to for the entire duration of said board.

Is Ballard better than Dorsey? Yeah, probably. Then again, he might just be his mirror image (Dorsey's performance on O but applied to the D). In either event, that's not really where I take exception.

I simply think trying to lump Dorsey in with Veach is ridiculous. Dorsey's track record has been light years better than Veach's unless you simply want to give credit for anything he's done well to someone else. How is that remotely fair?

PEDs and painkillers are on the Seahawks training table

Great post.

For all his faults Dorsey is not as bad as Veach. Does anyone here think Dorsey have given up a 1st and a 2nd for Frank Clark and then given him $105 million contract? No way in hell Dorsey would do that.. That trade looks beyond bad right now and may have set the Chiefs D back a year or two.

Dorsey traded away his best offensive lineman for a DE that has one sack.

Dorsey has a pretty shitty deal of his own on his ledger for a DE this off-season, though. And one that flat out floored me when it was made.

Why ANYONE bailed out the Giants on that Olivier Vernon guaranteed money is beyond me. And to give up a quality G in Zeitler to do so is pretty !@#$ing bad.

But if we're talking degrees here, the Clark deal is significantly more damaging than the Vernon deal, even if the Vernon deal had significantly less upside. If you squint you can see why Veach spun the wheel on the Clark trade - bad idea, but there's a 'damn the torpedoes' logic to it. The Zeilter/Vernon swap, OTOH, was a bizarre one that I couldn't figure out from the word go.

I don't think Dorsey is perfect by any means. He does make mistakes - but most of those mistakes have been overblown by people who felt the need to justify the Chiefs decision to move on from him. Writ large, Dorsey did an awfully good job here and put Veach in a great position to succeed (Veach assumed a FAR better situation than Dorsey did). Veach simply hasn't done anything with that momentum.

Dorsey got excoriated for his 'terrible cap management' (without acknowledging the bare cupboard he inherited or the mandate to be competitive immediately) but it was EASY to get out from under what he did. This team's had a ton a flexibility the past 2 seasons. The problem is that Veach has taken all that wiggle room and pissed it away.

Veach is the youngest GM in the NFL. Our only hope is that he can grow and learn from his mistakes...doesn't look promising.

What’s the penalty for practicing in pads and tackling? I’m willing to chip in for the fine

Bingo. Plenty to bitch about regarding Clark, the Watson TD isn't one of them.

Watson beats damn near every LB one on one there not named Kuechly.

I would trade our next 10 first round draft picks for Keuchly!!

Speaks did more than Clark

Dude is a missle. The exact kind of LB we are missing.

Dorsey paid Tamba when he was old and busted. He gave him a 3 year contract extension and Tamba made 1 tackle for that contract. That was our return LMAO

I don’t think we need to discuss Eric Berry and his paralyzing contract that we will still be paying to this day. Pretty sure we owe that guy $8 million alone next season.

It’s about as bad as Frank Clark if you consider that both Tamba and Berry were only on the field (off and on) for about 10 of a projected 144 games for the life of those two contracts combined.

He’s was taken one spot ahead of us. Instead we took Poe because Chiefs

Hali was a mistake; a panic move born of Houston's injury. Ultimately the biggest problem with that one was the weird timing of it, but it's also probably its most obvious explanation. They set a few million dollars in cap space on fire by allowing those 'voidable years' to lapse just a few days prior to reaching an extension. There was no reason not to roll those in and push that cap space out a bit. It would've made little difference long-term (would've washed by year 3) but if they'd have had any intention of re-signing him, they'd have never let that happen. But the lack of progress on Houston's knee screwed them up.

The Hali deal is admittedly not great - hate seeing a panic move like that - but nothing approaching Clark. At least the Hali deal was a result of injury; the Clark deal was hubris. In fact, the Hali deal doesn't even get to Hitchens level and Hitchens is like 4th on Veach's hit list in two seasons. All told it was a 2 year, $14 million extension that they got a mediocre season out of (2016) and a lost season in 2017. I mean....is that any worse than Okafor's deal? And most seem to think that Okafor's deal is a GOOD one for Veach.

You're REALLY gonna put Berry on Dorsey? Most folks seem to think that Dorsey holding the line on Berry and refusing to capitulate to Berry's representatives ridiculous demands ended up pissing Clark off and contributed to Dorsey's firing. Absolutely not - there is no way you hold Eric Berry against John Dorsey. Dorsey desperately tried to avoid that trainwreck until Clark got himself involved and ****ed everything up. That's pretty much a matter of public record at this point. No way - that was 100% Clark Hunt.

We should give Junior Gallete a shot. **** it.

Veach’s 2019 draft at least isn’t a total abortion. Not all of those guys are gonna hit, and they could all end up being washouts (though Thornhill and Hardman probably won’t) but you’re not gonna look at a year-by-year of Chiefs draft history and compare it to some of the utter abortions like the Tyson Jackson draft or any of the Vermeil era drafts.

2018 might just go down as one of those kinds of drafts.

If 2018 was just an aberration and Veach can actually draft okay, then we’ll be fine

Mark Collins blowing Clark up on Holthus’s show.

Said Clark told him they didn’t have any passion to stop the run. Collins said, “this is the same guy who got run over by the quarterback for a touchdown.” Holthus is uncomfortable in this interview where he just wants to put the hammer down.

D is about to be galvanized.

We are going to boatrace the donks.

Donkeys gonna have Lindsay juking Clark out of his cleats if he has to try and bring him down 1 on 1.

ROFL

This part really is hard for me to comprehend. I remember people bitching up a storm about him giving up big contracts, but apparently Veach gets a pass and is allowed to blow his load on all sorts of trash from other teams. At least the contracts that Dorsey gave out were to home grown players that were great. Veach is overpaying monetarily and with draft capital.

Sammy Watkins $16 mil/yr (That is the 9th highest per year average of all WR). Giving $16 mil/year to a WR that was never in the top 20 in receiving yards. His average ranking in that category was 66th. Just based on that he should have made probably half of what he did and then you take into account he has only played 1 full season and that was his rookie season. Yeah he is good if he plays, but God damn, he never plays.

Anthony Hitchens $9 mil/year (12th highest yearly average among all inside line backers) he ****ing blows. That's all I have to say about that.

and last the worst thing that Veach has done

Frank Clark $20.8 mil/year, 1st rounder, 2nd rounder, Chris Jones (22nd highest paid player in the entire league by yearly average. The 4th highest paid defender in the league.) The absolute worst of the worst. This could probably be the worst move by any GM in the last decade. We gave up a 1st and 2nd rounder and then made him the 4th highest paid defender in the league. We also gave him so much that not we probably can't afford Chris Jones.

That's good coming from a guy that was supposed to be some big time leader. All he seems to do is run his ****ing mouth. Sure, talk is fine during training camp and pre season, if you are actually going to ****ing lead by example when the time comes.

He's not a leader on this defense and for anyone to act like he is is fooling themselves. I bet most all of the players have 0 respect for him. ****ing guy comes in acting like some badass and gets clowned on damn near every play of every game that he's in. He was brought here to bring an attitude to the D and so far he's been a worthless pussy.

WTF?

This entire defense looks soft. At least the first 2-3 weeks they were swarming to the ball, blowing up the flare passes and screens and flying to the ball.

Last few weeks they just look beat. They look like a team that knows they suck.

Trying to find this. Can you post a link?

At least they aren’t reeruned too

LMAO

I don’t have any kind of a link. It was on the Chiefs Kingdom show tonight on 810.

Will never happen. Clark would have to shed a block in order to bring down Lindsey 1 on 1

Raises hand.

And now I'm gonna' puke.

you guys are so reactionary.

Things are never as simple as many of you want to make them. It's not black and white.

Even good GM's make mistakes.

Even bad GM's occasionally hit on players.

Reid is one of the best coaches in football; and yes, he does have some weaknesses.

Veach is going to need to have a run of hits pretty damned soon; he's had a bunch of flops.

But you guys are so extreme. Dorsey was a good GM, but had some issues. Ballard is off to a good start, but the law of averages says he'll have his share of whiffs too.

Everything is not EITHER/OR.

It's much more complicated than that.

In general, yes. Especially over time. But within a window of opportunity, there is less room for error, otherwise you waste the opportunity.

People are shitting all over Veach for Frank Clark, which is rightfully due, but I think he’s done some good this offseason.

Hardman was a good pick, Thornhill was a good pick, Ogbah was a good trade and Martinas Rankin actually looked pretty decent on Sunday. He looked A LOT better than Wylie.

Its early but the way that guy played made me feel like we might have a solution at LG (finally).