Originally Posted by Reerun_KC (Post 5325112)

Chiefzilla....

Do you realize we are not the only franchise to ever get old or to rebuild?

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5325151)

We weren't just a franchise that got old. At one stretch, we had the oldest starting lineup in the NFL. So many franchises got old, but we were the oldest.

We weren't the only franchise to rebuild. But we were probably the only franchise to have less than a 10% success rate in drafting (starter and backup). So many franchises struggled in the draft, but we were probably the worst.

On age and draft success alone, you'd be hard-pressed to find many teams who were worse.

On age and draft success combined, you'd be very, very, very hard-pressed to find many teams who were worse.

You can keep trying to make a case about how the Chiefs' situation was like something most teams have endured, but it's not a very good one. The Chiefs got older than any other franchise and were probably the worst in the league at bringing in young talent to replace them. When you're the worst at both, that makes it doubly worse.

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC (Post 5325080)

When Herm is finally gone, I am going to spend every post on why he messed up the team, just like you do with Carl...

BTW, Herm chose to accept this job, he wasnt forced as you always refer too...

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5325169)

I guarantee that in 2-3 years, we'll look back at the foundation herm is leaving behind in 2008 and say that we made a lot of real good personnel decisions. For those that are objective enough, that is, to evaluate the situation fairly.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5325169)

I'm sure you will lay down plenty of opinions about how Herm messed up the team. You'll create plenty of lose-lose situations. If Turk McBride becomes a pro bowler, you'll criticize Herm for not coaching him up. If Turk ends up getting cut, you'll criticize Herm for drafting the wrong guy. I know how this works.

I guarantee that in 2-3 years, we'll look back at the foundation herm is leaving behind in 2008 and say that we made a lot of real good personnel decisions. For those that are objective enough, that is, to evaluate the situation fairly.

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC (Post 5325160)

Fair enough, but we are not getting better or more talented after 3 drafts...

Honestly, if this team is going to succeed in the future, Carl is already gone, and Herm HAS to go, a long with his staff...

There hasnt been a better time in the last 20 years to dump the whole ****ing thing and start fresh with a new approach to building a franchise/championship team..

Keeping Herm is a slap in the face to the fans and especially the STH's.

Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan (Post 5325175)

Very sick of Vermeil being thrown under the bus. Vermeil did not make most personnel decisions. He was a part...but not the final vote, necessarily. That's why teams have a GM. Herm isn't a GM either. Carl is at fault for the talent we have had (or have passed on). Vermeil and Herm are responsible for coaching what they're given. Vermeil did a good job with what he was given AND what he inherited (remember how useless Dante Hall was until Vermeil identified a way to tap his talents?). Herm has done a terrible job with the hand he's bee dealt. Vermeil was always a good coach. Herm has never been a good coach. Does anyone deny that this team would have more wins under a different guy? This all seems to obvious that I'm still amazed that people argue on behalf of Germ.

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC (Post 5325186)

Well we will miss you when you follow Herm to his new team....

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5325191)

Who's blaming Vermeil? You're not talking about me, are you? Because I most definitely never blamed Vermeil for anything.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5325187)

I have said many times that the decision to keep/can Herm should be up to the new GM and I support whichever decision he makes. Even if that means firing Herm, which I think is inevitable.

I never thought Herm was a Super Bowl coach. And I never wanted him beyond 2009 unless he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he could take this team deep. I don't have any problem with him getting fired. But the man is being shit on in every direction and a lot of it is for stuff that he had no control over.

I'm just saying... when we play the blame game, let's not blame Herm for stuff Peterson screwed up, or blame Peterson for stuff Herm screwed up. This team has had 6 wins in 2 seasons, and for some reason, the critics will all have you believe that Herm is 100% responsible for that.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5325193)

Which is funny, because I have said many times that I think he should be fired.

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC (Post 5325199)

No you cant blame just one party, that I agree with... It took BOTH Herm and Carl to create this mess... Therefore, BOTH should be removed... Carl for some decisions and Herm for not being able to develop those players and for not forcing Carl to address the OL... Turley and Welborne for example...

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5325206)

That's still 25% too much. But it at least takes away the notion that Herm is responsible for everything wrong in KC right now.

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC (Post 5325050)

Lack of talent? He said that after he just spent he whole article arguing about the talent that Herm is developing?

3 years is more than enough to completely rebuild 31 of 32 franchises... To bad that 1 franchise cant properly rebuild...