Is it talent or coaching with the Pats?

They keep getting guys hurt, they keep playing well with street FAs. I'd say it's coaching.

Meanwhile in Pittsburg they have a newb coach and never pay to keep their FAs but keep plugging in fresh talent. I think the front office in Pit has been more effective than the front office in NE, coaching excluded.

I'd rather have Whaley or Polian, I just don't know that Pioli is the reason for the success in NE.

He was the NFL Executive Man of the year 2 years in a row. Maybe thats why he got some press?

this is a huge question

but doesn't this apply to any of these new GM candidates?

Can you honestly look at some of the moves they have made over the last few years and believe they are going to franchise a backup, free agent QB.

But that's why I like the Steelers. They're one of the few organizations that can at least provide something of an answer to that question.

They've changed coaches and never missed a beat. Is Tomlin really that similar to Cowher or is their organization just that good?

Even the Colts and Polian have had Dungy. Then there's the fact that Peyton Manning wins 5 games on any team he's on (including the Lions). The Steelers went to the SB with Neil O'freakin'Donnel and have been successful with two different coaches while turning their team over a couple of times.

That's the organization I try to emulate.

From Wikipedia

In 1992, Pioli was hired as a pro personnel assistant by now-Patriots coach Bill Belichick, then the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. Even without prior NFL scouting experience, Belichick put Pioli in charge of evaluating college players and handling some player contracts.

When Belichick was fired following the Browns' move to Baltimore in 1996, Pioli stayed with the Ravens and was promoted to director of pro personnel.

A year later, in 1997, Pioli rejoined Belichick, who had followed Bill Parcells as an assistant coach to the New York Jets. Again the director of pro personnel, Pioli's moves helped the Jets to a franchise-high 12 wins and their first AFC East title in 20 years.

When Belichick accepted the Patriots' head coaching position in 2000, Pioli again followed Belichick as the Patriots' assistant director of player personnel.

In their seven seasons with the Patriots, Pioli and Belichick have led the team to three Super Bowl championships and five division titles. In his tenure with the Patriots, Pioli has earned promotions to Director of Player Personnel and Vice President of Player Personnel in 2000 and 2002, respectively, as well as a contract extension in 2005.

[edit] 2001 season

<DL><DD>Further information: 2001 New England Patriots season </DD></DL>

• Dallas Morning News - NFL Executive of the Year Award

[edit] 2003 season

<DL><DD>Further information: 2003 New England Patriots season </DD></DL>

• Pro Football Weekly - NFL Executive of the Year Award
• Sporting News - George Young NFL Executive of the Year Award
• Sports Illustrated - NFL Executive of the Year Award

[edit] 2004 season

<DL><DD>Further information: 2004 New England Patriots season </DD></DL>

• NFL Players Association - Executive Achievement Award
• San Francisco Chronicle - Executive of the Year Award
• Sporting News - George Young NFL Executive of the Year Award
• Sports Illustrated - NFL Executive of the Year Award
• USA Today - NFL Executive of the Year Award

[edit] 2007 season

<DL><DD>Further information: 2007 New England Patriots season </DD></DL>

• Dallas Morning News - NFL Executive of the Year Award
• Pro Football Weekly - NFL Executive of the Year Award
• San Francisco Chronicle - Executive of the Year Award

I'm hot and cold on Pioli. I think the success in NE should be credited to their owner Robert Kraft, and their HC. Now I think that should create a great environment for someone like Pioli to develop, but many coaches coming from NE have not been able to find success in the NFL.

Yeah, Pioli sucks. We should just promote Kuharich.

So the question that begs asking is, can Pioli be successful without Belichick.

When your drafts are below average/average like the Patriots have been, and they still win - that should answer your question about the GM/Coaching relationship in NE...

STFU Don't give Clark any ideas.

They owe Brady 5 mil base salary and 3 mil roster bonus. They also owe him 6.6 million of his pro rated signing bonus. The franchise number for QB will be just over 12 milliion. I doubt they will tie up almost 27 million in cap space just to have Cassel ride the pine.

If nothing else Pioli would bring a winning attitude and mandate to 1 Arrowhead Drive.

Can you imagine someone from the Pats front office tolerating 2 to 4 win seasons ?

He'd most likely be willing to make heads roll if failure happens, an attitude the Chiefs have been missing for years.

It's very similar to the Savage/Newsome connection a few years ago.