my favorite Patriots play a year ago was 1st and goal from the 1...play-action pass every time...I felt SOOOOOOO vindicated when they lost that Super Bowl...that is one of my top 5 sports moments...ever. **** the Patriots. Tom Brady with his sly little laugh when Plaxico guaranteed they'd only score 17 points...I was THRILLLLLLLLLED when they lost...almost as thrilled as I'd be with a Chiefs Super Bowl win...that's how much I hated Tom Brady and the Patriots last year. 18-1 is a HUGE kick in the nuts...it was great.

And this is why people laugh at you.

It's not worth rehashing this argument. It's absurd. You've just lost the debate anyway. Congrats.

See my avatar bitch. :p

What's so absurd about it?

Brady made the best of his opportunity...the confidence of the tuck rule Super Bowl propelled Brady into greatness...

Everything worked out EXACTLY how it had to for Brady to be successful...the best kicker, the best coach, the best front office...

Shit, the Patriots might not have lost a game in the last three seasons with Manning as their QB...

But you're a Patriots fan...three years ago all of us Chiefs fans thought LJ >>> LT...but that was never the case...just like Tom will never touch Peyton...he's not in the same tier, plain and simple...

The Chiefs fans who claim otherwise are just jealous of the Patriots success...

watch Peyton play, watch Tom play, clearly Peyton is better. CLEARLY.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

You just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper.

and congrats...

The Patriots put together an amazing organization...but the perfect season ended in flames...and if that happened to the Chiefs...it would hurt no matter how many super bowls they had won previously...

If Peyton Manning was that QB...he would have been thrown under the bus as a choker...Tom Brady didn't show up in the Super Bowl...he was flat and played terrible...if he wasn't Tom Brady, people would have realized that...

Tom Brady and Brett Favre get different treatment from the media...but never has been NEARLY as talented as Peyton Manning so it makes sense...

Peyton Manning is the best QB anyone has ever seen and if they tell you differently they are lying.

says the Patriots fan...

Brady was dealt Ace Joker...Manning was dealt 3 6 offsuit...who's going to win more hands?

I agree with Hootie here. Tom Brady is great, but I can't shake this feeling that he would not have the same success in a lot of other places. Yes he is one of the biggest reasons for New England's success. But then the NE system is also a big reason for HIS success. We are seeing the success of that system with Cassel too. Manning, on the other hand IS THE COLTS. Had he been in another team with a reasonably competent coaching staff, I think he would have elevated that team to Colts-like success. I give the edge to Manning.

Are we talking Gin Rummy or Hearts?

I wont' deny that the perfect season would have been a HELL of a cherry on the ice cream sundae. I have no doubt at all that that game will hurt worse than any loss of any team I root for, especially as I'm a pro football fan first and foremost.

But honestly, I've seen 4 Celtics Championships, 2 Red Sox WS and 3 Patriots Super Bowl championships during my sports fan rooting career, and while you get pretty invested, it's not live or die. I still had to go to work the day after the Super Bowl. I didn't get a ring, or bonus check from my boss.

I don't spend each day bitterly regretting that game or anything.

What you need to realize is that Brady already ESTABLISHED his reputation as a clutch QB, so a few problem spots don't destroy his well earned reputation. Manning has FAILED more often than not in the playoffs, with some pretty mediocre stats, which has established a QUESTION as to whether he's clutch or not.

:shrug: Then there are a hell of a lot of liars out there, including Belichick, who has said more than once that there is no quarterback he'd rather have.

I'd have to see Kurt Warner in commercials for at least a half dozen different companies before I could realistically and objectively compare him to PM.

:shrug: I'm going to exit the conversation. I honestly just don't have time for round 12 of this debate. It's all a waste of time anyway, of course, but fun.

don't worry, I told everyone on a different board the Patriots were a 13 win team with Cassell last year and was laughed at...after week 1, when Pollard took Brady out, I guaranteed the Pats would win 10-12 games with Cassell...was laughed at again...

I mean...how many games do the Colts win with Jim Sorgi? I say 2 tops...

Call Manning a choker all you want...Scifres put them inside the 10 7 ****ing times...Manning can only do so much for that team...he single-handedly lead them to the playoffs...that team was AWFUL this year...especially on defense...no running game...1 good receiver and a shitty offensive line...yet Manning, in today's NFL, led that team to 12 wins...

That is insane.

He'll never get the credit he deserves...everyone will always point to Super Bowl's blah blah blah but Larry Fitzgerald said it best...it takes 11 players on both sides...the Patriots have always had the better team and organization, plain and simple...you can point to Givens, Brown, Faulk blah blah blah but there is a reason those players were there...

Michael Jordan made Scottie Pippen a top 50 NBA player of all time...

you don't think Peyton Manning had that same effect on Marvin Harrison?

and I grew up with Michael Jordan...congrats.

Tom Brady led his team into field goal range three times...whoopdee****ingdoo!

When Peyton Manning does it Vanderjagt pushes it 60 yards right...

Vinatieri is more clutch than Tom Brady.

Not picking sides, but what coach is going to say he'd rather have someone else?