Fair enough, if he were cut he wouldn't have come here.

So tell me, since I haven't got a clue.

What veterans did you guys bring in early on in the BB/Pioli era to "teach" the young guys how to win?

I remember Seau, but that was after you had already won a SB or two, wasn't it?

I think someone could do alot worse in th 7th round than Vrabel, which is the start of a dynasty....he may not be here when it happens, but it's a start...

The chances that a 6th or 7th round pick are productive players in 3 years is small; the chance that Vrabel is a productive player in 3 years is non-existant.

While I won't completely discount the value of veteran leadership, I wouldn't give up draft picks to get it. There are plenty of free-agents available and, as I've already stated, I expect the coaches to teach the players. I don't know what you mean by "clubhouse enforcer" so I can't answer that. What is Vrabel going to enforce?

First, and not to be insulting, but you hardly need to worry about making the Patriots stronger. You need to worry about not sucking. Once you stop sucking, then you make take the next step.

Second, high or not, a late round pick is still more likely than not to be a mostly useless warm body.

Third, your team is YOUNG. Really, really, REALLY young. What do you need another really young, late round pick for? What will he add? The probably answer is "nothing". Which is a heck of a lot less than Vrabel, who can show the rest of your locker room how to win.

Who says it was a 6th or 7th round pick?

This was el borracho's quote last year when I said if we want to make a move at GM we should try and get Parcells to come on board.

We all get some wrong, but i'm leaning toward Pioli's decision making over his.

Yeah, Seau was later, much later.

Keep in mind that the Patriots team Belichick inherited in 2000 was fundamentally different from teh group of kids you have:

1. Starting QB was Drew Bledsoe -- 7 year veteran, pro bowler, and one SB appearance.

2. The team started 2000 just 3 years removed from a SB appearance, with playoff appearances and victories within the last couple of years.

3. Seasoned vets: Bledsoe, Bruschi, Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Willie McGinest, Bruce Armstrong,

You've got Tony Gonzalez and a bunch of kids, basically.

:LOL:

I think the idea behind it is while Vrabel himself won't be around long, his contributions to our younger players will.

Seau was after we'd won all three. The one that I'd correlate, somewhat, to this trade for Vrabel is Roman Phifer. He had played for the Jets, was familiar with Belichick's defense as a result. The Pats signed him in 2001, and as it worked out he ended up being a starting LB in the first SB, and he was there for all 3 of them.

Plus a whiny Waters and a bitch spitter in Johnson

You are welcome to believe what you wish, txhawk. I still don't think Parcells would have been the answer in KC... don't really think he will be the SuperBowl answer in Miami, either.

Amnorix, I'm sure you're right about all the things Vrabel will be able to provide. He arrives with a great resume.

What I question is whether he will, and why he'd want to.

I just can't imagine that Vrabel is feeling good about coming to a 2-14 team in exchange for a late round draft pick. I hope I'm wrong, but I envision him just showing up to draw a pay check.

It is the coach's job to teach the players, but if you can't understand the inherent value in having experienced, productive, disciplined, and hard-working veterans with past success to hold the young guys accountable, then I don't know what to tell you. It's a time-tested method for building a strong foundation in just about every team sport.

You're right, but what Vrabel can teach your entire team, especially your defense, about hwo to play the 3-4 and how to WIN in the NFL is HUGE. A late round pick needs to be shown where the bathroom is.

Then you don't understand the NFL at a very fundamental level.

The NFL isn't the NBA or MLB. There are 60 players (including practice squad). It's not a bunch of 1:1 matchups, and the most talent doesn't always win. Read some books about NFL teambuilding and you'll understand this deal alot better.

Vrabel will give you guys stuff that you'll never see, know or understand. Will it definitely work? No. But it's a piece to the puzzle.