3-4 lineman are suppose to be big fat guys...

By what you are saying Ted Washington was a worthless piece of shit, yet the Pats wouldn't have won that bowl without him....

yes, this

3-4 lineman can play the game. The worthless out of shape ****ing pieces of shit on our team get no push, rush, ir have any consistency in the 4th. Just because the worthless out of shape ****ing pieces of shit on our team are fat ****s does not make them viable lineman. Lining up a viable lineman and making him condition will NOT deteriorate his skills.

I bet Washington was in better shape than the worthless out of shape pieces of ****ing shit we had at the beginning of OTAs. If he wasn't, running wasn't going to make him worse.
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Ted Washington weighed like 400lbs...he just stood there and no one could move him.

Vince Wilfork is really fat too, it's kind of required for his position.

No it isn't. I'm at a restaurant and there is a dude at the next table that is north of 450. Has to be. He is NOT a nose tackle. It really surprises me that you think that Haley making these guys GET IN SHAPE to PLAY A SPORT will make them worse. Unless you're just arging to argue.
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Good point but it's a different set of circumstances. Haley is trying to change the culture and philosophy of the football team. It's as much about conditioning as it is about accountability and consistancy in what your doing.

The Patriots were a successful franchise with a winning culture. The fundamentals were already established and the atmosphere of players being professionals was there.

No, I'm not. If you think they're gonna run some NT out there who's in great shape and weighs 310 and be successful that isn't gonna happen.

First of all, why are we still talking about nose tackles like we're playing a 3-4? We sure didn't play a 3-4 on Saturday. We won't be playing a 3-4 all year. It's 4-3 under all the way, and we've seen it now with our own eyes. Let's worry about a 3-4 NT when we actually play a 3-4, be that in 2010 or 2011 or whenever. It's not all that relevant now.

Second of all, why would I worry about the weight loss? They got pushed around last year when they were fat and soft. What, are they going to get pushed around more or something now that they're stronger and leaner? Good grief. It's not like they going to go from worst to...uh...worster? Is that a word?

I think it's a good thing, personally. My guess is the team was in terrible shape when Haley got here. They're used to an offseason and training camp under Herm where conditioning apparently didn't matter all that much. Well, those days are over. And as far as results go, if anything, I thought the d-lines looked better on Saturday than they had in years.

Keg,

what makes you think it was a 43 under? Baldinger kept making comments about them playing a 34.

Where Vrabel and Hali were playing and what they were doing.

Bingo

I was looking for an article with Clancy I read a while back breaking down the 3-4,4-3 and under very specifically but I can't find it back.

I did find this though.

Glenn Dorsey. Dorsey was drafted as a 4-3 DT for the Chiefs. In some cases, he is considered a special DT called the “Under Tackle” (UT). These “Under Tackles” are DT’s, but possess rare ability to use quick and agile moves to get to the QB. When they run(or ran) the 4-3, Dorsey was a perfect counter part to Tank Tyler, the 4-3 NT, but in a 3-4, Dorsey is almost useless. At 6-1 and only 290 pounds, Dorsey is merely too undersized to be a 3-4 DE. Most 3-4 DE’s are at least 6-3 (if not taller) because they use their brute strength and arm length (For better terms, Wingspan, meaning length from fingertip to fingertip) to held “block” the Offensive Line so that the LB’s can rush the passer. Dorsey though, does not possess that ability what so ever. There is the exception that the Chiefs may try the 3-4 “Under” scheme at certain moments of the game. The 3-4 Under would do the following. The DE on the opposite side (Jackson) rushes to the outside of the LT, turning his back to the QB. Then, the NT(Tyler) would try to clog up two blocker (The Left Guard and the Center), then the SLB would get in between the TE and the RT. This would leave the opposite 3-4 DE(Dorsey) to go one on one with the Right Guard. The problem with that is, What I just explained, is basically meaning putting Tamba Hali back on the Defensive Line, which is basically the 4-3 Defense all over again. In that instance, why would one even bother with a 3-4?

Or this,

4-3 over,
The two defensive ends (DE) line up over the offensive tackles. The two defensive tackles (DT) line up over the center and the guard on the strong side. One linebacker (LB) lines up on the line of scrimmage over the tight end. Another lines up off the line, just outside the weak-side defensive end. The third linebacker lines up off the line, but in the gap between the weak-side tackle and end.

When in the Over 4-3, the strength of the defense is on the offense's strong side. With a simple shift to the Under 4-3, the strength of the defense moves to the weak side. To get from the Over formation to the Under, simply shift the defensive tackles over one spot so that they are now over the center and the weak-side guard. The linebacker playing the gap between the weak-side tackle and end then shifts to the gap created between the strong-side tackle and end.

Two cornerbacks (CB), one on each side of the field, line up to cover the wide receivers. There are also two safeties. The exact position of the defensive backs (cornerbacks and safeties) depends on the type of pass coverage they are in.

Baldinger kept talking about how the players were adapting to their new roles in the 34 and made specific comments how the DL was doing a good job in the 34.

When watching on tv, how can you tell if it was a 43 under, or a 34 solid?

If a guy weighs 310 when he is in great shape, he will get pushed around when he is 330. Adding 20 pounds worth of fat won't make you strong, powerful, or allow you to use leverage. Fat does nothing for you as an athlete.
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