ChiefsPlanet

ChiefsPlanet (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)
-   Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=29)
-   -   A Mockery of a Draft (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=215213)

'Hamas' Jenkins 10-13-2009 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 6163646)
OL?

QB: Cassel, Croyle, Gutierrez
RB: Johnson, Charles, Williams
FB: Cox

WR: Bowe, Wade, Benn, Bradley, Lawrence
TE: Ryan, Pope, O'Connell

LT: Albert, Ndukwe
LG: Waters, Harris
C: O'Dowd, Niswanger
RG: Alleman, Niswanger
RT: O'Callaghan, Ndukwe

DE: Dorsey, Magee
NT: Williams, Edwards
DE: Jackson, Gilberry

OLB: Hali, Lang
ILB: Williams, Mays
ILB: Johnson, Johnson
OLB: Vrabel, Davis

CB: Flowers, Carr, Leggett, Washington
S: Mays, Page, Morgan, McGraw

K: Succop
P: Colquitt
LS: Gafford
KR/PR: Benn/Wade

Drafting to the strength of the board. Make a strong move for a guy like Mankins or another stopgap on the right side in the offseason. Try and find a KR/PR in FA. That draft would fix the D, and set the team up to be a serious contender in 2011, once one more position on the line is fixed.

Buehler445 10-13-2009 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6157289)
There is a shitload of talent at the top of the second round in the Walter Mock.

Arrelious Benn, Sergio Kindle, Ricky Sapp, Everson Griffen...wow.

I think I'd have to go:

1) Mays (it's basically like you have 12 players on D when one guy can take away the deep middle) S
2) Benn WR
2) O'Dowd C
3) Brandon Lang DE/OLB
4) Dan Williams NT
5) Dexter Davis DE/OLB
6) Micah Johnson ILB
7) Spent on Jake O'****tard

Direkshun beat me to it. Gotta do something else on the line IMO. Maybe not, I don't know if I'm willing to give up the two OLBs.

On the other side, what can you tell me about Dan Williams?

milkman 10-14-2009 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6157289)
There is a shitload of talent at the top of the second round in the Walter Mock.

Arrelious Benn, Sergio Kindle, Ricky Sapp, Everson Griffen...wow.

I think I'd have to go:

1) Mays (it's basically like you have 12 players on D when one guy can take away the deep middle) S
2) Benn WR
2) O'Dowd C
3) Brandon Lang DE/OLB
4) Dan Williams NT
5) Dexter Davis DE/OLB
6) Micah Johnson ILB
7) Spent on Jake O'****tard

I'd be surprised to see O'Dowd last until the 52nd pick, where they are projecting the Falcons pick that the Chiefs got, but if there, that would be a no brainer pick.

milkman 10-14-2009 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 6151687)
5. Myron Rolle, S; FSU
- Quit college football after graduating in 2.5 years and accepting a Rhodes scholarship to study medical anthropology. Is entering the 2010 draft upon completion of the scholarship. Was the #1 recruit in the country coming out of high school per ESPN. He's the full package at 6'2", 220 lb. An amazing athlete and, obviously, pretty darn smart. He has the potential to be a cross between Mays and Berry and could be the biggest steal in this draft.

Rolle will go before the fifth round.

'Hamas' Jenkins 10-14-2009 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 6170188)
Direkshun beat me to it. Gotta do something else on the line IMO. Maybe not, I don't know if I'm willing to give up the two OLBs.

On the other side, what can you tell me about Dan Williams?

Massive sumbitch. About 6'3" 330. He's been productive at Tennessee, getting into the backfield on a regular basis (8.5 TFL, 1.5 sacks last year) and had 48 tackles last year. Has the frame to be a legit NT, and he's active.

As far as the line is concerned, you can't keep throwing good money after bad. Pioli should have fixed the line in the last draft, but he didn't. As such, we can only draft to the strength of the board, and in this draft, it's defense. We'll have to try and augment the line through FA and try again in 2011 to make a more concerted run on offense.

The Franchise 10-15-2009 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6172738)
Massive sumbitch. About 6'3" 330. He's been productive at Tennessee, getting into the backfield on a regular basis (8.5 TFL, 1.5 sacks last year) and had 48 tackles last year. Has the frame to be a legit NT, and he's active.

As far as the line is concerned, you can't keep throwing good money after bad. Pioli should have fixed the line in the last draft, but he didn't. As such, we can only draft to the strength of the board, and in this draft, it's defense. We'll have to try and augment the line through FA and try again in 2011 to make a more concerted run on offense.

Honestly....I think that picking up Mankins during FA and drafting a C/RT in the first 4 picks would help this line immensly. That would still allow us to use 2 of our first 4 picks on the defense. And then hopefully grabbing a deep threat at WR with our other pick.

Your mock draft of:
Quote:

1) Mays (it's basically like you have 12 players on D when one guy can take away the deep middle) S
2) Benn WR
2) O'Dowd C
3) Brandon Lang DE/OLB
4) Dan Williams NT
5) Dexter Davis DE/OLB
6) Micah Johnson ILB
7) Spent on Jake O'****tard
with Mankins in FA.....would put this team around 1 year from competing.

The Franchise 10-15-2009 11:40 AM

That would put the line at:

Albert - Waters - O'Dowd - Mankins - O'Callagahan

Saccopoo 10-16-2009 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 6173887)
That would put the line at:

Albert - Waters - O'Dowd - Mankins - O'Callagahan

The more I think about it, the more I believe that Albert's success at LT last year was more due to the pistol/spread than anything else. He just hasn't looked right operating out of a under center set so far this year. As such, I just don't think that there is many options other than selecting the best LT in this draft and hope that they can get some playmakers later on in the draft. And I don't really see much in the way of viable offensive lineman in free agency next year. (Gaither, Evans and McNeill are most likely going to be signed with their respective teams which puts you into guys like Lutui, Barron and the like. I'm afraid it's draft or bust my friends.)

It looks like they like Jovan Belcher at a future MLB, but the ILB position needs an immediate upgrade to a more instinctive player. TE with Ryan? Not beyond this season. No effing way. And with Hali playing decently (not great, but okay), I can see an argument for switching the OLB position for say a DT or S or RB. There can be no argument about needing at least three new positions on the offensive line. It's horrible. Albert moving to guard would count as one of those "new" positions. I can't see the team re-signing Niswanger unless it's as a back up at best.

Offensive slanted draft:

1. Russell Okung, OT; OSU
2. Jerry Hughes, DE/OLB; TCU
2. Zane Beadles, OT; Utah
3. Dennis Pitta, TE; BYU
4. Joe Pawelek, ILB; Baylor
5. Matt Tenant, C; BC
5. Brandon James, PR/KR/WR; Florida

Okung - Albert - Tenant - Waters - Beadles

looks substantially more palatable than our current situation.

Defensive slanted draft:

1. Eric Berry, S; Tenn
2. Charles Brown, OT; USC
2. Eric Norwood, OLB/DE; South Carolina
3. AJ Edds, OLB; Iowa
4. Jamar Chaney, ILB; Miss St.
5. John Jerry, OG; Ole Miss
5. John Estes, C; Hawaii

Actually, the more I look at it, I really, really like this one.

Brown - Waters - Estes - Jerry - Albert

I could live with that, along with a complete (and needed) overhaul of our linebacking corps. Miss out on a TE though. Perhaps Pope gets it, and bringing in a guy like Tony Scheffler via FA wouldn't be too bad I guess. (I really like Pitta and Dickson though. *sigh*)

Saccopoo 10-16-2009 03:58 PM

Yeah...really like that one now.

Linebacking corps of:

Edds - Chaney - Belcher - Norwood

Like that lots!

And then, they can make a real big push for Wilfork in FA, so the defense looks like:

Jackson - Wilfork - Dorsey
Edds - Chaney - Belcher - Norwood
Flowers - Berry - Morgan - Carr

I'll take that. Keep Vrabel around for backup & mentoring at all the LB positions, Mays on the inside.

I wouldn't mind them using some money in FA for Vincent Jackson either. Give Cassel another stud WR to throw to in addition to Bowe.

Wilfork, Jackson and Scheffler as the FAs, and a strong draft and this team is in business sooner rather than later.

WhitiE 10-16-2009 09:59 PM

wow i just noticed this..... now i dont need to google for mock drafts....

milkman 10-17-2009 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 6177322)
The more I think about it, the more I believe that Albert's success at LT last year was more due to the pistol/spread than anything else.

I could not disagre any more.

The Chiefs went to the spread in the 6th(?) last season and Albert was playing great in those first 4 games last year on athletic ability alone.

He's struggling with technique this year, learning on the fly, while also learning a new scheme, and adjusting to his weight loss.

And the fact is, none of the LTs in this draft are as highly rated as the fifth best LT prospect from last year.

I fully expect that by the end of this season, concerns about Albert will be laid to rest.

But even if I'm wrong, I wouldn't use a top 5 pick on Russel Okung.

ChiefsCountry 10-19-2009 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 6177322)
The more I think about it, the more I believe that Albert's success at LT last year was more due to the pistol/spread than anything else.

And you want to draft a tackle from a spread offense. ROFL

Saccopoo 10-19-2009 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 6187648)
And you want to draft a tackle from a spread offense. ROFL

Makes almost as much sense as drafting a college guard and envisioning him as your starting left tackle, no?

What I'm saying is that by drafting Okung, it allows you to move Albert inside to left guard and you basically get a two for one in terms of immediately improving your offensive line. You aren't forced to roll the dice hoping that Albert can make the improvements to his game to bring him back to snuff at LT, and then go look for another guard later on in the draft. At least to me, having Okung and Albert on the left side is a major potential improvement over hoping Albert gets it together at LT and then inserting some aging, overpriced FA or low round rookie at LG. And there really isn't a lot of stud LT prospects in this next draft. Tons of RT guys.

For some reason, a lot of guys around here have an immediate adverse reaction to any Big 12 players. But I don't think that you can do that with Okung. The guy can play and has all the tools that you look for in a potential starting LT.

Saccopoo 10-19-2009 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6178534)
But even if I'm wrong, I wouldn't use a top 5 pick on Russel Okung.

So, who do you use a top five pick on then? If you were the GM of the Chiefs, with the roster as it is right now.

As I see it, the Chiefs need the following:

1. Offensive line
- All positions have struggled in pass protection and run blocking. By far and away, the single biggest area of concern for the Chiefs at every single position on the line.
2. Tight End
- Kind of like the safety position, but with less talent. That Ryan, who is a special teamer and fringe backup at best, is the guy is worrisome.
3. Safety
- Our best players are McGraw and Brown. Both make nice plays, but then are completely out of position on the following play. It seems that they are being forced to make more plays than is typical, and I don't know if that's because our middle linebackers are not very good or what. Both have been in the league a while as well, and Brown has had injury issues in the past.
4. Linebacker
- Vrabel is solid on the SAM, but at this point he's been in the league a long time and we should probably get someone to groom under him as soon as possible. Hali has made an acceptable transition from LDE to ROLB. Belcher is showing flashes at MLB, and I thought he did a pretty good job there against the Redskins in more meaningful minutes. ILB is atrocious. Williams is out of position and Johnson gets there from time to time, shows flashes, but he's never had the consistency you need from the position (either Sam in a 3-4 or now at the Will).
5. PR/KR
- Need someone with speed and vision that we can dedicate to this position rather than forcing Wade in there on punts and Charles on kickoffs and who can be a third down back or fourth receiver that can run blazing post routes.
6. Wide Receiver
- Maybe Bowe is turning the corner and can be a top flight #1. If that's the case, the Chiefs need a solid possession receiver. Wade would be a nice slot guy.
7. Cornerback
- Lack of depth here is very obvious when you get beyond Flowers and Carr.
8. Fullback
- Cox just hasn't impressed much.
9. Defensive line
- Edwards and Tyler are playing okay. I wouldn't turn down a Wilfork level guy, but I wouldn't overpay for one either. *cough*Haynesworth*cough* Dorsey, Jackson, Gilberry and Magee seem to be playing pretty good.
9. Running back
- Depends on health issues. If healthy, it's a pretty good, young group.

So, in looking at that, who do you pick for the Chiefs in the top five? Especially considering that the Haley offense runs out of a shotgun, single back set a lot.

To me, it's a no brainer. It's Okung, and you slide Albert inside to left guard and he'll be dominant at that position for 10 years. Left side of the line fixed in one fell swoop.

milkman 10-20-2009 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 6187826)
So, who do you use a top five pick on then? If you were the GM of the Chiefs, with the roster as it is right now.

As I see it, the Chiefs need the following:

1. Offensive line
- All positions have struggled in pass protection and run blocking. By far and away, the single biggest area of concern for the Chiefs at every single position on the line.
2. Tight End
- Kind of like the safety position, but with less talent. That Ryan, who is a special teamer and fringe backup at best, is the guy is worrisome.
3. Safety
- Our best players are McGraw and Brown. Both make nice plays, but then are completely out of position on the following play. It seems that they are being forced to make more plays than is typical, and I don't know if that's because our middle linebackers are not very good or what. Both have been in the league a while as well, and Brown has had injury issues in the past.
4. Linebacker
- Vrabel is solid on the SAM, but at this point he's been in the league a long time and we should probably get someone to groom under him as soon as possible. Hali has made an acceptable transition from LDE to ROLB. Belcher is showing flashes at MLB, and I thought he did a pretty good job there against the Redskins in more meaningful minutes. ILB is atrocious. Williams is out of position and Johnson gets there from time to time, shows flashes, but he's never had the consistency you need from the position (either Sam in a 3-4 or now at the Will).
5. PR/KR
- Need someone with speed and vision that we can dedicate to this position rather than forcing Wade in there on punts and Charles on kickoffs and who can be a third down back or fourth receiver that can run blazing post routes.
6. Wide Receiver
- Maybe Bowe is turning the corner and can be a top flight #1. If that's the case, the Chiefs need a solid possession receiver. Wade would be a nice slot guy.
7. Cornerback
- Lack of depth here is very obvious when you get beyond Flowers and Carr.
8. Fullback
- Cox just hasn't impressed much.
9. Defensive line
- Edwards and Tyler are playing okay. I wouldn't turn down a Wilfork level guy, but I wouldn't overpay for one either. *cough*Haynesworth*cough* Dorsey, Jackson, Gilberry and Magee seem to be playing pretty good.
9. Running back
- Depends on health issues. If healthy, it's a pretty good, young group.

So, in looking at that, who do you pick for the Chiefs in the top five? Especially considering that the Haley offense runs out of a shotgun, single back set a lot.

To me, it's a no brainer. It's Okung, and you slide Albert inside to left guard and he'll be dominant at that position for 10 years. Left side of the line fixed in one fell swoop.

You make really sound, solid points.

I got into a "debate" with another poster on another thread about this same subject, but the debate centered on Trent Williams.

I purposely called Trent Williams a "RT in a spread offense" numerous time, and he never once corrected me.


I tell you this, cause I think it's far more enjoyable to debate this with someone who actually brings some knowledge and intelligience ot the debate.

But I digress.

To the question at hand, it is my contention that a playmaker in the secondary at safety is now a premium in this league with the rules so slanted to offense, especially in teh passing game.

Guys like troy Polamaulu, Reed, and Sanders, neuatralize that advantage, to some extent.

With that in mind, I'm taking Taylor Mays.

he's a guy that hits like a LB in run support, and who has the speed and physical presense to take away the middle, including the deep middle, in pass defense.
A ball hawking Eric Berry would be my second choice.

I'd like to address the O-Line with Kris O'Dowd in the second round.
If we could land George Selvie in the early second and O'Dowd later, with the Falcon pick, followed by Jason Fox (RT) or Dan Williams (NT), in the fourth, those pisks would go along way to addressing our needs.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:03 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.