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-   -   Other Sports Sources: Cavaliers close to deal for Stoudemire (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=223412)

Saul Good 02-14-2010 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 6530987)
Isn't that what everybody said when Shaq was dealt to Cleveland? That it won't help Cleveland's inability to defend the pick and roll/teams like Orlando will only continue to have their way with them, etc.

Boy do those guys look stupid after Cleveland rolled Orlando in the playoffs last year.

Quesadilla Joe 02-14-2010 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6530956)
Stoudemire isn't that good. He's not a very good shooter and he plays horrendous defense. Horrendous.

One of the Cavs best strengths, half court defense, would immediately become a liability.

IMO, this could be the rare trade that makes both teams worse.

Sarver has consistently shown that he cares more about the bottom line than titles, otherwise the Suns of the last 6 years probably would have won 4 titles.

Stoudemire has all the potential in the world and is a very good shooter for a guy his size. Before his micro-fracture surgery he absolutely killed Tim Duncan in the playoffs, he averaged like 35 points and 15 rebounds in a series against he Spurs one year.

RealSNR 02-14-2010 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 6531007)
Boy do those guys look stupid after Cleveland rolled Orlando in the playoffs last year.

Shaq was still with the Suns last season.

I know it's only a regular season game, but Shaq is much better against Dwight Howard than Z was. I think that was a good deal.

DJ's left nut 02-14-2010 11:46 AM

The Cavs would be smarter to send Shaq in this deal.

Shaq and Amare on the floor with LeBron would completely clog the middle. At that point, you've done a fair amount to defeat LeBron's greatest strength; his strength/inside presence.

LeBron's an average shooter. He needs some room to work from inside and/or mid-range to really excel. If you have Shaq and Amare down there, the entire defense will collapse down and his lanes are gone.

I actually think Danny Granger would be a perfect fit for Cleveland if they could figure out a way to get him. He's a bigger guy that can rebound a little but works on the perimeter offensively.

Titty Meat 02-14-2010 11:57 AM

Hickson is one of the most underrated players in the NBA. Amare is good but I don't see how this stretchs the court to open things up for Lebron. Jamison would be the ideal player for the Cavs.

chiefzilla1501 02-14-2010 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6531057)
Hickson is one of the most underrated players in the NBA. Amare is good but I don't see how this stretchs the court to open things up for Lebron. Jamison would be the ideal player for the Cavs.

I agree. I'm not really seeing it. What I really think the Cavs need, actually, is a John Paxson or Steve Kerr type player. A guy who simply does not miss an open long-range shot. A guy who Lebron can drive in and then kick the ball out to the outside to a wide open man and he'll drain it every time. Stoudemire could be that guy. But I feel like it should be a pure outside sharpshooter instead. It just seems like all their best kickback shooters are bigger guys with good range on their jumpshots. Z was actually one of those guys.

Moe Williams was supposed to be that guy, but he absolutely choked in the playoffs last year.

'Hamas' Jenkins 02-14-2010 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 6531014)
Stoudemire has all the potential in the world and is a very good shooter for a guy his size. Before his micro-fracture surgery he absolutely killed Tim Duncan in the playoffs, he averaged like 35 points and 15 rebounds in a series against he Spurs one year.

Operative phrase: before his microfracture surgery.

He's never been the same player since. His explosiveness is gone.

Combine that with putting him and Shaq in the same front court, and you have a defensive apocalypse.

'Hamas' Jenkins 02-14-2010 12:09 PM

Washington wasn't doing a straight salary dump. They got good value for Butler, all things considered.

Where the Cavs really ****ed themselves was last year, when they could have offloaded Szczerbiak's expiring contract for a piece, but did nothing.

'Hamas' Jenkins 02-14-2010 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 6531071)
I agree. I'm not really seeing it. What I really think the Cavs need, actually, is a John Paxson or Steve Kerr type player. A guy who simply does not miss an open long-range shot. A guy who Lebron can drive in and then kick the ball out to the outside to a wide open man and he'll drain it every time. Stoudemire could be that guy. But I feel like it should be a pure outside sharpshooter instead. It just seems like all their best kickback shooters are bigger guys with good range on their jumpshots. Z was actually one of those guys.

Moe Williams was supposed to be that guy, but he absolutely choked in the playoffs last year.

Cleveland has 3 guys in the top 15 in the league in 3 pt %. I don't think that's really a problem.

The one thing they still don't have is a second player who can create his own shot. You can't have LeBron going 1-5 in crunch time and win consistently.

DJ's left nut 02-14-2010 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 6531071)
I agree. I'm not really seeing it. What I really think the Cavs need, actually, is a John Paxson or Steve Kerr type player. A guy who simply does not miss an open long-range shot. A guy who Lebron can drive in and then kick the ball out to the outside to a wide open man and he'll drain it every time. Stoudemire could be that guy. But I feel like it should be a pure outside sharpshooter instead. It just seems like all their best kickback shooters are bigger guys with good range on their jumpshots. Z was actually one of those guys.

Moe Williams was supposed to be that guy, but he absolutely choked in the playoffs last year.

What the Cavs have is 3 of the top 11 3-pt shooters in the game already. They have guards that can shoot the three-pointer. A Kerr/Paxson doesn't do them nearly as well as a guy like Trevor Ariza would, but Ariza plays SF.

They need a power forward that can shoot from outside; a Glenn Rice type.

Granger would be their best bet, followed closely by Antwan Jamison (in fact, Jamison might be even better), but even someone like Troy Murphy or Matt Bonner would be good as well

Psyko Tek 02-14-2010 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6530956)
Stoudemire isn't that good. He's not a very good shooter and he plays horrendous defense. Horrendous.

One of the Cavs best strengths, half court defense, would immediately become a liability.

IMO, this could be the rare trade that makes both teams worse.

Sarver has consistently shown that he cares more about the bottom line than titles, otherwise the Suns of the last 6 years probably would have won 4 titles.

yeah sarver is a bottom line guy
gawd I miss, colangelo

the refs didn't help phx at all

DJ's left nut 02-14-2010 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6531097)
Cleveland has 3 guys in the top 15 in the league in 3 pt %. I don't think that's really a problem.

The one thing they still don't have is a second player who can create his own shot. You can't have LeBron going 1-5 in crunch time and win consistently.

Mo Williams can create off the dribble, as can Gibson.

The Cavs don't run an offense that really encourages those guys to make their own shot. LeBron dominates the ball in their offense.

If you put Jamison out there with Williams and Parker, the defense would have to spread to cover the wings and LeBron could have his way inside. Another 'creator' would just end up doing what Parker's doing now; shooting jumpers after LeBron crashes.

'Hamas' Jenkins 02-14-2010 12:17 PM

As strange as it seems, the Cavs probably would have been better off last year and the foreseeable future had they offered a 1 and Szczerbiak's contract for Zach ****ing Randolph off all people.

'Hamas' Jenkins 02-14-2010 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 6531105)
Mo Williams can create off the dribble, as can Gibson.

The Cavs don't run an offense that really encourages those guys to make their own shot. LeBron dominates the ball in their offense.

If you put Jamison out there with Williams and Parker, the defense would have to spread to cover the wings and LeBron could have his way inside. Another 'creator' would just end up doing what Parker's doing now; shooting jumpers after LeBron crashes.

Mo Williams scores 9.9 points a game that aren't from beyond the arc.

'Hamas' Jenkins 02-14-2010 12:21 PM

DJ, what I mean by "create his own shot" is someone who can score without needing someone else to dribble, drive, and kick it to them for an open look.

They can either

1) Beat their man off the dribble

or

2) Beat the guy in post

The Cavs don't have anyone who can score in the low post if you get him the ball on the block, aside from the corpse of Shaq.

They can't play Hi-Lo


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