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TheGuardian 09-07-2010 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaj22 (Post 6983358)
I hate this rotational 2 down LBer split time shit, it kills the momentum for these guys. And the guys subbing in are cold and expected to just fire it up in one (important) play? Come on.

Does Ray Lewis, David Harris, Nick Barnett, Karlos Dansby, etc ever come out of games every 2 downs? I can't think of another 3-4 team that does this to their LBers for nickel packages/pass rush situations versus run stop situations. Usually those ILB are 3-down players.

I think Demorrio Williams hits the nail on his head when discussing a full time linebacker roll. He maybe shitty, but only coming in for half the plays just doesn't cut it. I wish this team could just make up its mind on which guys to play and actually play them/stick with them.

Actually it doesn't kill "momentum". This isn't like offense where it's based on timing and such. Defense is about attitude for the most part.

Second, the Pats did this exact thing when they were winning super bowls. That's why they carried so many linemen and linebackers there. Guys were moved in and out based on roles and what they wanted to do defensively.

I think that Belcher earned a starting spot. I thought that Williams outplayed Johnson, but what I think will happen there is that you will see a combination of Williams/Hali/Studebaker coming from the outside on obvious passing downs with Vrabel sliding inside. This is a really nice combination of players IMO and gives us a lot of looks to present to the offense.

mcaj22 09-07-2010 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian (Post 6983499)
Actually it doesn't kill "momentum". This isn't like offense where it's based on timing and such. Defense is about attitude for the most part.

Second, the Pats did this exact thing when they were winning super bowls. That's why they carried so many linemen and linebackers there. Guys were moved in and out based on roles and what they wanted to do defensively.

I think that Belcher earned a starting spot. I thought that Williams outplayed Johnson, but what I think will happen there is that you will see a combination of Williams/Hali/Studebaker coming from the outside on obvious passing downs with Vrabel sliding inside. This is a really nice combination of players IMO and gives us a lot of looks to present to the offense.


So hypothetically if DJ blows up a play on first down, does a little pumped up move after to get the crowd, his team and himself going, and then they make a stop on second down, in a defensive situation that we need, you are okay with pulling these guys on a 3rd down passing situation so Williams can come in and blitz the passer from the middle?

Because that's basically what this flop seems to be. Instead of DJ coming in on third downs to cover the pass, they are now bringing Williams in to rush the pass. So who is the ILB that stays on 3rd downs? Does Vrabel slide to the middle? Does Belcher or DJ stay to cover the pass?

I think someone is getting the short end of the momentum stick here, I just wish we could have a 3-down ILB to LEAD this team. Most 3-4 defenses are commanded by an ILB who never comes out of the game. Ever. I get that we don't have that, but we have young guys and a first round pick/talent LBer that should get that opportunity.

I guess momentum is a bad word, but I just don't see how a guy standing on the sidelines for the first two downs is expected to just come in and fire off the ball and have the same adrenaline as the guys already in there to rush the passer. I'm talking strictly pass rushers, I get the rotation of d-lineman to keep them fresh. But from a blitz-ers perspective, I think these guys should be more than 1 down specialists (Stude, Williams, etc).

Buehler445 09-07-2010 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 6983492)
I disagree. I think Haley WILL do this.... THIS is what has made the Pats so successful. Guys do their jobs... and contribute where they can.

With Pioli, Romeo, and Weis.... the Patriot way will become the Chiefs way.

I get that, but inherently, it is difficult for coaches to let go of what they think works best. Belichick is the best I've seen at that (in the current era). Perhaps you look at Manning (come on, you know he runs the show in Indy). He looks to take advantage of the defense rather than establish some aspect of a game. But if a guy thinks that running on first down is effective, it's tough for him to take advantage of a mismatch in defensive alignment if it's there. It's a psychological thing. Just like you do what's easier sometimes instead of what is optimal.

I just can't wait to see the end of a system based approach in KC. You have to have some BAMF talent to force your gameplan on someone else. In today's NFL, if you have a great aspect of your game, you've probably neglected another.

ChiefaRoo 09-07-2010 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaj22 (Post 6983595)
So hypothetically if DJ blows up a play on first down, does a little pumped up move after to get the crowd, his team and himself going, and then they make a stop on second down, in a defensive situation that we need, you are okay with pulling these guys on a 3rd down passing situation so Williams can come in and blitz the passer from the middle?

Because that's basically what this flop seems to be. Instead of DJ coming in on third downs to cover the pass, they are now bringing Williams in to rush the pass. So who is the ILB that stays on 3rd downs? Does Vrabel slide to the middle? Does Belcher or DJ stay to cover the pass?

I think someone is getting the short end of the momentum stick here, I just wish we could have a 3-down ILB to LEAD this team. Most 3-4 defenses are commanded by an ILB who never comes out of the game. Ever. I get that we don't have that, but we have young guys and a first round pick/talent LBer that should get that opportunity.

I guess momentum is a bad word, but I just don't see how a guy standing on the sidelines for the first two downs is expected to just come in and fire off the ball and have the same adrenaline as the guys already in there to rush the passer. I'm talking strictly pass rushers, I get the rotation of d-lineman to keep them fresh. But from a blitz-ers perspective, I think these guys should be more than 1 down specialists (Stude, Williams, etc).

I think you're reading to much into it. I think the coaches will look at DJ and DWilliams as interchangable. Both can cover, both can blitz. DJ is faster and more athletic, Williams is tougher and has a knack for getting to the QB (in this defense based on the preseason). With no huddle Offenses and hurry ups around the league I doubt KC is fixated on who is in which package as it relates to these two guys.

I'd like to see a 3rd round pick on a LB next year to improve the unit.

TheGuardian 09-07-2010 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaj22 (Post 6983595)
So hypothetically if DJ blows up a play on first down, does a little pumped up move after to get the crowd, his team and himself going, and then they make a stop on second down, in a defensive situation that we need, you are okay with pulling these guys on a 3rd down passing situation so Williams can come in and blitz the passer from the middle?

Because that's basically what this flop seems to be. Instead of DJ coming in on third downs to cover the pass, they are now bringing Williams in to rush the pass. So who is the ILB that stays on 3rd downs? Does Vrabel slide to the middle? Does Belcher or DJ stay to cover the pass?

I think someone is getting the short end of the momentum stick here, I just wish we could have a 3-down ILB to LEAD this team. Most 3-4 defenses are commanded by an ILB who never comes out of the game. Ever. I get that we don't have that, but we have young guys and a first round pick/talent LBer that should get that opportunity.

I guess momentum is a bad word, but I just don't see how a guy standing on the sidelines for the first two downs is expected to just come in and fire off the ball and have the same adrenaline as the guys already in there to rush the passer. I'm talking strictly pass rushers, I get the rotation of d-lineman to keep them fresh. But from a blitz-ers perspective, I think these guys should be more than 1 down specialists (Stude, Williams, etc).

The entire defense gets momentum. Not generally one guy. You are just overthinking this. For example what if your run stuffer comes in and makes two awesome stuffs at the line or behind the line of scrimmage, and now the offense is in 3rd and long. Well do you keep him on the field even though he sucks in pass coverage? No.

The best pass rushing teams do it with a variety of people. Not 1 or 2 guys. I expect Williams, Hali, Stude, Vrabel, Gilberry, etc all to contribute to the pass rush. DJ has never been a pass rusher in his life. If DJ stays in the game on passing downs that is fine, but he better be dropping into coverage.

Sweet Daddy Hate 09-07-2010 08:49 AM

Interesting.

boogblaster 09-07-2010 09:09 AM

DJ the man in the middle .....

-King- 09-07-2010 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedThat (Post 6983466)
I don't think it really matters who the starters are.

I think the Chiefs are going to rotate some of their starters with the guys on the depth charts. don't be surprised to see D Wiliams or Stude in there on some downs. I see some of these guys playing 2 downs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6983471)
Well look at you.


You're just a fountain of obvious shit this morning.

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

jspchief 09-07-2010 10:00 AM

As much as I want DJ to succeed, I'm not sure I saw him win the starting job in preseason. Granted, I don't see them every day in practice, and can only speculate on assignments when they are on the field.

The thing that stands out to me is Williams' reaction to sliding down the depth chart (coming out like a man possessed) compared to the way DJ reacted to it last year (fetal position).

Ultimately, I'm not concerned about the "starter" label here anymore than I am with Jones and Charles, but I do want the best guy to be on the field.

buddha 09-07-2010 10:02 AM

Six of one, half dozen of the other. NEITHER DJ nor Williams is good enough. This is like watching a pissing match between Cinderella's two step sisters. Who gives a damn? The Chiefs are running a defense predicated on having four good linebackers, and how many do we have? We average at best...that's it.

Dark Horse 09-07-2010 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6983440)
Interesting that we're going into the year with two inside linebackers under 240 pounds.

Most 3-4 teams have at least one in the 250+ range.

That is probably the only reason Mays was even considered over Belcher.

Mr. Laz 09-07-2010 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcaj22 (Post 6983358)
I hate this rotational 2 down LBer split time shit, it kills the momentum for these guys. And the guys subbing in are cold and expected to just fire it up in one (important) play? Come on.

Does Ray Lewis, David Harris, Nick Barnett, Karlos Dansby, etc ever come out of games every 2 downs? I can't think of another 3-4 team that does this to their LBers for nickel packages/pass rush situations versus run stop situations. Usually those ILB are 3-down players.

I think Demorrio Williams hits the nail on his head when discussing a full time linebacker roll. He maybe shitty, but only coming in for half the plays just doesn't cut it. I wish this team could just make up its mind on which guys to play and actually play them/stick with them.

did you just compare our linebackers to lewis,harris,barnett etc?

are you mental?

if we had those linebackers we wouldn't rotate them either


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