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-   -   Football Study: Trading up in the draft is a sucker's bet (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=276615)

Tombstone RJ 09-24-2013 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 10015926)
What leads you to this conclusion? The success of a lucky pick looks the same as the success of a pick based on a good decision.

Manning was obviously the right pick and as of right now, it's pretty obvious that Luck appears to be the right pick. However, you are correct if you are suggesting the jury is still out on the 2011 draft.

Jakemall 09-24-2013 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolf (Post 10015907)
Trading down out of the first five picks is always a good thing?

Yeah, I'm sure Indianapolis would have been much better off trading down and not drafting Manning or Luck. Detroit wishes they would have been able to trade down and not draft Stafford or Megatron. Jesus you are a moron.

Well what if Indy had traded out of the pick..got 3 first rounds. Took

RG3 or Tannehill, Chandler Jones and Star Lotulelei?

The last great example I can think of trading out of that #1 pick was the trade with The Chargers and the Giants. I think that trade worked out for both teams. Sure the Chargers didn't get to the superbowl...but it wasn't because of talent.

Tombstone RJ 09-24-2013 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakemall (Post 10015951)
Well what if Indy had traded out of the pick..got 3 first rounds. Took

RG3 or Tannehill, Chandler Jones and Star Lotulelei?

The last great example I can think of trading out of that #1 pick was the trade with The Chargers and the Giants. I think that trade worked out for both teams. Sure the Chargers didn't get to the superbowl...but it wasn't because of talent.

I think it was the Rams who the Skins traded with before the 2011 draft, right? Let's see how that huge hall of picks works out for the Rams. If they draft well it could be huge in setting them up for the next 5 years as a very competitive team.

saphojunkie 09-24-2013 03:35 PM

This study is reeruned, because it does not take into consideration that a virtually infinite number of factors AFTER the draft determine success at least as much, if not more than, the talent of the player before and during the draft.

You don't think that Justin Blackmon would have been more successful being drafted at the same spot by New England instead of Jacksonville?

This study might have been done by a PHD in business, but he doesn't understand football one iota.

Jakemall 09-24-2013 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10015958)
I think it was the Rams who the Skins traded with before the 2011 draft, right? Let's see how that huge hall of picks works out for the Rams. If they draft well it could be huge in setting them up for the next 5 years as a very competitive team.

Remember when New Orleans traded the house for Ricky Williams? Who made out on that deal?

saphojunkie 09-24-2013 03:37 PM

Quote:

The study was naturally controversial, in part due to misreadings. It deals only in probabilities, not in individual picks. If you trade up and land a player who turns out to be a superstar, it was a good trade. The study merely says that in most cases, that possibility doesn't justify the risk.
In MOST CASES you wouldn't have traded, so the point is completely moot.

Stupid article is stupid.

Tombstone RJ 09-24-2013 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakemall (Post 10015962)
Remember when New Orleans traded the house for Ricky Williams? Who made out on that deal?

good question! who did Orleans trade with, I can't remember...

Tombstone RJ 09-24-2013 03:41 PM

Oh, and Cleveland trading UP to #4 for Trent Richardson was stoooooopid.

saphojunkie 09-24-2013 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10015977)
good question! who did Orleans trade with, I can't remember...

It was Washington. Were you being serious or making a point?

Frosty 09-24-2013 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10015977)
good question! who did Orleans trade with, I can't remember...

Redskins, who pretty much blew the picks.

LoneWolf 09-24-2013 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakemall (Post 10015951)
Well what if Indy had traded out of the pick..got 3 first rounds. Took

RG3 or Tannehill, Chandler Jones and Star Lotulelei?

The last great example I can think of trading out of that #1 pick was the trade with The Chargers and the Giants. I think that trade worked out for both teams. Sure the Chargers didn't get to the superbowl...but it wasn't because of talent.

Then they still wouldn't have Luck who is the best QB by far of that group. I'm pretty sure the Giants kicked San Diego's ass in that trade. Two Super Bowl championships trumps anything the Chargers have done.

patteeu 09-24-2013 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10015939)
Manning was obviously the right pick and as of right now, it's pretty obvious that Luck appears to be the right pick. However, you are correct if you are suggesting the jury is still out on the 2011 draft.

It was obviously the right pick, but it's not obvious whether it was lucky or a result of superior drafting skill. Same with the Luck pick, which was made by an entirely different regime than the Manning pick, btw.

Frosty 09-24-2013 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty (Post 10015992)
Redskins, who pretty much blew the picks.

http://nfltrades.tumblr.com/post/212...ywilliamstrade

Jakemall 09-24-2013 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10015977)
good question! who did Orleans trade with, I can't remember...

LOL...I wasn't thinking. That first year it really looked like it worked out in Washington's benefit. Obviously they went through a slump afterwards.

The Saints only kept Ricky for 3 seasons then traded him.

Just Passin' By 09-24-2013 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cave Johnson (Post 10015871)
Wouldn't you want to cite an example that supports your position? Because the Pats have been shitty at drafting for a while.....

The Patriots hit a down period from 2006-2009, but the drafts in 2010-2012 have been good ones (too early to tell about 2013)

McCourty
Gronkowski
Spikes
Hernandez
Solder
Vereen
Ridley
Cannon
Jones
Hightower
Dennard

That's a damn good 3 year haul, and that's just the starters/rotation guys.


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